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Advice Please - Trying to Break the "Nice Guy Habit"

9K views 62 replies 39 participants last post by  EunuchMonk 
#1 ·
I have always been the "Nice Guy" and just recently figured out that this is probably my biggest problem. Like many I have been frustrated with my wife's lack of interest in sex. Last December I made a commitment to be extremely nice and try to anticipate what she would want me to do prior to having to be asked. For example I touched up the paint in the bedrooms...or vacuumed the entire house before she asked "when was the last time the house was vacuumed". I have heard time and time again that women need you to do the little things without being asked...blah blah blah.

Well i have noticed she is much nicer to me, but still not all that interested in sex. I will admit it has gone from once every 4 - 6 weeks to twice every 4- 6 weeks on average.

In the last two months I have found this site and been reading a lot about how what a woman really wants is not a nice guy at all. Ah Crap! I now get it I am my own worst enemy. This is starting to make sense now.

My question is, how does a typical "manly" male respond to the following scenario...

My wife has been battling a cold for the last two days, but I thought i'd try anyway.
I thought I'd just go for it. Leaned over and kissed my wife's shoulder, and the reaction I got was. "I cannot believe how selfish you are. You know I am sick. It's moments like this that I feel like I am just a whole for you to stick it in."

In the past, I would have sulked and just profusely apologized. Last night I just looked at her and said. "Yes I want to have sex with you. Even though you are not feeling well, I still find you extremely sexy."

It pretty much ended at that. Which is better than I would have expected.

So, again, how would a manly man handle this?
 
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#2 ·
Well i have noticed she is much nicer to me, but still not all that interested in sex. I will admit it has gone from once every 4 - 6 weeks to twice every 4- 6 weeks on average.

I thought I'd just go for it. Leaned over and kissed my wife's shoulder, and the reaction I got was. "I cannot believe how selfish you are. You know I am sick. It's moments like this that I feel like I am just a whole for you to stick it in."
Curious per the bolded, if you are only having sex 1-2x every 4-6 weeks, what moments is she alluding to :confused:

So when you leaned in for the kiss, was your intention to have sex? I can understand why if she was sick she wouldn't want to have sex, but focus more on her response. She could have simply said "I just don't feel good, let's try again when I feel better." Instead, she went right at you which would indicate there is a larger underlying issue.
 
#4 ·
Instead, she went right at you which would indicate there is a larger underlying issue.
Being ill or in pain does lead to directness with short responses and low tolerances for current and ongoing issues.... it's hard to not be snappy under such conditions.
 
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#3 ·
Be more aware... your pendulum swings at extremes.

Learn from it... don't lose the lesson.

Did you really hit on her while she was sick?
 
#6 ·
What on earth is a "Manly man"? There's way too much philosophizing here to begin with, please don't add to it :wink2:

Listen, if you don't think your sexual needs are being adequately addressed, just come out with it already, you need to have a frank, non accusatory conversation with her about it. Your sexual deprivation isn't the result of your being a "Nice guy" or an "Unmanly man" or anything else. As you see, when you make the extra effort, you still get rebuffed, and she misinterprets your kind gestures for sexual advances. Don't speak in forked tongue or code, and open a window to let out all the frankincense, it's getting in the way.
 
#10 ·
What on earth is a "Manly man"? There's way too much philosophizing here to begin with, please don't add to it :wink2:

Listen, if you don't think your sexual needs are being adequately addressed, just come out with it already, you need to have a frank, non accusatory conversation with her about it. Your sexual deprivation isn't the result of your being a "Nice guy" or an "Unmanly man" or anything else. As you see, when you make the extra effort, you still get rebuffed, and she misinterprets your kind gestures for sexual advances. Don't speak in forked tongue or code, and open a window to let out all the frankincense, it's getting in the way.
a 'manly man' is the exalted 'ALPHA MAN' which is often beloved and touted on this site.
 
#7 ·
you gotta pick your moments better.

the not sulking and being more direct is a good start.

start approaching her (at the right moments) romantically without the expectations of sex.
in fact act like you don't even care about sex, but instead romance her whenever you get the chance.

try to put sex out of your mind, at least as it pertains to her.
 
#8 ·
Last December I made a commitment to be extremely nice and try to anticipate what she would want me to do prior to having to be asked. For example I touched up the paint in the bedrooms...or vacuumed the entire house before she asked "when was the last time the house was vacuumed". I have heard time and time again that women need you to do the little things without being asked...blah blah blah.


Doing more chores or being extremely nice will not get your wife to have sex with you. Actually its doing the opposite effect.


Many, many guys don't know how a woman's mind works.

Your in need of "No more mr. nice guy" book. Google it and read.


Questions:
How long have you been married
How many kids
Both of you work
Are you in shape, out of shape

Stop talking about lack of sex with her.
And STOP being a doormat.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#27 · (Edited by Moderator)
^^^^ what they said AND


And, as a manly man, he needs to stop think about the world revolving around "his needs".

"Manly Men" deal with their s..ff.
"unmanly men" create problems for others with their wants.

You're doing housework _why_? Because you want something, you looked it up, but never thought about how/why it works (it doesn't).
Women want someone to share the chores for the same reasons many men ignore them - simply because there are more interesting things to do that they'd rather be doing.

OP did the chores to create a good impression. To achieve what he wanted. (better marriage, thus HN/HN she is supposed to magically reciprocate.)
(1st mistake) you are not 9 years old. You no longer get praise for cleaning your own room.
(2nd mistake) you're doing stuff you should have already been doing. (in your customers eyes).
(3rd mistake) you're taking on a lower role in the operation in hopes for recognitions and rewards due the higher leaders in the operation.
(4th mistake) The things that you spend your time achieving have no promotional value within the social order. (no bragging rights)
(5th and biggest mistake) you did these things with hope of payoff without a contract but with the intention to creating an obligation - aimed at someone more capable in the negotiation than yourself and who held "power cards". Your attempt to move things to their (social) ground gave them _more_ power, while made your standing/ability _less_ tenable. Your female partner has to play this kind of game, for real, every time she interacts with another (non-BFF) female - so when you played amateur hour, guess where that put you.

Now tell me, why did you think you plan would work?
(perhaps, 'cause *****es like housework done, I knows, cause I reads it on the the interweb.)

Rule 1: You have to be worth having.
Rule 2: She has to be enjoying the idea of having you.
Rule 3: It has to be on her mind -before- you start making any kind of action together.

As you can imagine now, that co-habitating with a daily grind a kids, is going to make that task really difficult, for her as well as you.

And also hopefully now, you'll understand that your carrying you weight *is* good, because it "opens territory/time" but you've really got a long way to go before you make it to "sexy fun guy" material.
And is your partner going to settle for less than "sexy fun guy"? well she might out of obligation, or duty, or pity, or for hope of keeping marriage together - but how long do you think she is going to be able to emotionally keep carrying that dutifully forwards.

Yes, modern world tends to crush that out of us. Tends to create false goals (some with truly tangible benefits).


and, just so you realise, asking the customer (or your wife) what you have to do, is IRL admitting you're clueless.... so unless you want to be considered a nerdy teen age virgin fumbling their first bra strap, you're going to have to do way more effort than asking that.
 
#9 ·
So, again, how would a manly man handle this?
Asking her if she needs anything. Provide for any reasonable request. Then let her sleep.

On a side note, to her 'I feel like I'm just a hole for you to stick it in' comment. I would have responded, "yes, but a very sexy hole, and I happen to like the person it's attached to". But, I wouldn't have put the moves on her when she was sick.

If your kiss was more a peck and not a come on for sex, it makes me wonder. Does she have any history of being sexually abused?
 
#14 ·
Do more chores. Do less chores. Be caring, be aloof. Buy a truck with big knobbly tires. If you partner doesn't want sex none of these will change that.

In some case a partner won't want sex because of something you are or are not doing, but usually those things are pretty obvious. If you are a selfish lover, or an unemployed lazy bum, or dirty, or demanding - changing those things will help.

If you are a generally decent, helpful, respect worthy person, and your partner still doesn't want sex, there is nothing you can do about it - that is just what they are. Leave, or live with it - terrible choices, but your only choices.

Don't run yourself ragged trying to figure out what YOU are doing wrong. It isn't you.
 
#40 ·
If you are a generally decent, helpful, respect worthy person, and your partner still doesn't want sex, there is nothing you can do about it - that is just what they are. Leave, or live with it - terrible choices, but your only choices.
Uh, no. Some women don't want sex, but most women who are LD are really that way because of their current relationship. That was true for me. Had more sex in my first relationship after separating than I did in my 10 year marriage, and that relationship was only a few months. Why? Because my sexuality shut down with all the stressors in the marriage. And the total stalemate we were in when it came to fixing our marriage.

Sometimes you do have to let the marriage go, but lack of sex in a marriage is a symptom, not the problem.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#18 · (Edited)
Re: Advice Please - Trying to Break the "Nice Guy Habit"


The not so nice guy would have educated her on the health benefits of intercourse, then followed with "I want to fvck the snot out of you!"

Laugh at her b¡tchyness, eventually she will just think your purposely trying to ruse her for your own entertainment, then she feels like putty in your hands and that kinda turns her on a little bit.

Dry humping her after she shames you for initiating sex works way better than sulking.

Edit: it won't get you sex, but it might get you off, lol.
 
#23 ·
Re: Advice Please - Trying to Break the "Nice Guy Habit"

The not so nice guy would have educated her on the health benefits of intercourse, then followed with "I want to fvck the snot out of you!"

Laugh at her b¡tchyness, eventually she will just think your purposely trying to ruse her for your own entertainment, then she feels like putty in your hands and that kinda turns her on a little bit.

Dry humping her after she shames you for initiating sex works way better than sulking.

Edit: it won't get you sex, but it might get you off, lol.
Have you been drinking tonight? 0:)
 
#20 ·
In the past, I would have sulked and just profusely apologized. Last night I just looked at her and said. "Yes I want to have sex with you. Even though you are not feeling well, I still find you extremely sexy."

It pretty much ended at that. Which is better than I would have expected.
That response was a big improvement over sulking and apologizing.

Keep it up. Small steps.

Nothing changes overnight.
 
#21 ·
Part of her being put off may be to you hitting on her when she's sick. I would have asked her if she needed anything, made her comfortable in bed & gone out for a run.

I did the whole housework thing as well. For a year in fact, made sure everything was done, even had meals in crockpot on nights I wasn't gonna make it home. Then tried for sex on a Saturday morning, got rejected, didn't say anything, but ALL housework stopped on my account. My wife had other issues she needed to deal with, but I was doing this experiment to take away her "You don't do anything around the house".

The following weekend, she asked "Why no house work?" I asked "Why no sex?" This lead to quite a few discussions.

Here is a link you may use to explain why sex is so important. A Husband?s Emotional Need - The Forgiven Wife

Marriage is a compromise, she isn't going to want it all the time, and you have to be more aware of how she is feeling. If she's sick, forget about it. On the other hand, if she tries putting you off with "I have a upset stomach", and later downs half a pizza & a quart of ice cream, she's just avoiding intimacy, and more discussion may be needed.
 
#24 · (Edited)
My wife has been battling a cold for the last two days, but I thought i'd try anyway.
I thought I'd just go for it. Leaned over and kissed my wife's shoulder, and the reaction I got was.
Well that was not the best time don't you think? Especially when she is not the most into it right now anyway. See you are so desperate right now that you are not thinking right. If you had had sex more frequently you wouldn't be bothering her.

Couple things, you have got to get her to stop thinking that sex is about you getting off. But here is a question to you, is sex about getting you off? Are you making sure she is getting off? It should be fun, communicative and exciting, like a project that just the two of you can do.

Another thing be romantic with her, leave her notes, about why you lover her, what she does that makes you happy, why you think she is hot. If she looks good in a dress tell her, if she looks sexy, write her a note when she goes to bed about how horny she made you. But it can't all be about sex because then it just seems disingenuous. WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T BEG! Woman don't find begging sexy, unless you are a superstar, and then it is because they know a superstar could have anyone and they are begging for them (not really just in the song).

You need to be confident. I said this on another thread (and people will laugh but) Barry White, that guy knew how to talk to women. There is a reason why a sweaty fat man had all the women throwing panties. His lyrics are just awesome, romantic, kind, loving and sexy. You got to get that across to her in your own way.

Bottom line, communicate from a point of strength, not desperation. But not being a Nice Guy is more then just getting sex, it means stop being passive. Passive in your relationship, passive in your dress, passive in your job. It means not waiting for your wife to tell you to fix the toilet handle. It's being active. It is being a leader in your own home. That is how you get to communicate from a position of strength. She will be much more receptive if you lead.
 
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#25 ·
This is very confusing - I felt for you until you said she had a cold but you figured you'd try anyway.

I don't understand why you're hitting on someone who only puts out about once a month when you know they're not feeling well.

Question: How often do you hit your wife up for sex? If it's all the time, and she's rejecting you so much you only get it once or twice a month, I'd stop hitting on her so often for awhile, she probably feels hounded. If it's only once in awhile, then pick your times better, for crying out loud! If she hardly wants sex as it is, why set yourself up for failure by trying when she's sick?

I'm not a shrink, but I'm think there's something psychological about turning a guy down - like a negative feedback loop of some sort, turning him down may reinforce the idea that he wants sex and you don't in your mind, which makes the woman wary and her reflex response may become NO!. So pick your moment's strategically.

With that said I really liked your response to her. You are a man. You want sex. She's a hot sexy woman. She's your woman. She turns you on. You have nothing to apologize for. (Except not giving a damn that she had a cold, but next time you'll time things better.) I would never apologize for wanting sex, that is not manly. Never beg, wheedle or whine. But also, don't treat her like a hole by hitting on her when you know she feels miserable.

As far as meeting her needs - housework schmousework. Sure, women want help with it. So would any janitor. But if you helped out some janitor, it wouldn't make him hot for you. (I don't think...) Women's top emotional needs that make them feel CONNECTED to you where they WANT sex are more are usually 1) Intimate Conversation, 2) Affection (that is NOT sexual), 3) Giving them your undivided attention so they know you care about them as a human, not just a hole. And 4 - when you DO have sex, make it good for HER too.

Here is a really good article on getting the sex you want: The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage? by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.
 
#30 ·
Its the God damn common COLD. Some here are acting like OP was trying to get it on with her while she was in a hospital bed battling Ebola.

She dont like sex with you. She gives it a couples times every month and a half to shut you up.

I realize some colds can be worse than others but give the guy a break. Nothing short of a major sit down with the wife laying all of their cards on the table is going to help OP.
 
#32 ·
Personally I don't think one thing has to do with the other. She was sick and didn't feel like having sex at the moment. That is entirely reasonable. This wouldn't be a problem if he was have sex more frequently. They are already having problems it makes no tactical sense to press for sex when she is sick.

I do agree he should sit down and talk, but he needs to step up too. He sounds like he is passive in his life. Besides no man wants obligation sex, they want to be desired. He can make that happen with a little work.
 
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#31 ·
OP,
I must agree that it is just a cold. Did she remain in bed the last two days or did she go to work, go shopping, do any of her normal chores? If so I seriously doubt having sex would be hazardous to her health.

In any event, perhaps when she expressed her feeling as if she were just a hole for you to stick it into you should have responded with you're not just any hole, you are a very special hole that I have dedicated myself to and vowed to cherish. You took the same vow but I do not feel as though you feel that way about me. So if you are just a hole to me then what am I to you that you can allow my needs to go mostly unmet?

I would find that statement to be very troubling in that it it implies a serious lack of connection. If she truly feels that way then your marriage is seriously lacking depth and substance.
 
#33 ·
How to be a manly man:

Don't do housework because you expect sex in return (covert contract). Do it because you are a full partner in the relationship. If you see something that needs doing, then do it. Pay attention to pick up on things that your spouse thinks need doing, even if you don't see it. Carry your weight in the household. If your spouse is unable to, due to illness, overtime at work, death in the family, whatever, then carry your weight and then some.

Give your wife affection that isn't intended to lead to sex. If a peck on the shoulder instantly makes her think you want sex, then you must have a history of only touching her when you want sex. Touch her all the time, in non sexual ways. If you touch her in sexual ways and she doesn't respond, shrug in understanding and return to non-sexual touch. Create a new mindset in her that you care about her in ways that don't involve you getting off.

Be responsible:
- Take care of yourself physically. Be healthy. Be attractive. Smell good. Eat sensibly.
- Take care of yourself financially. Work full time. Pay debts promptly. Create savings. Live within your means.
- Take care of yourself emotionally/mentally. Let go of grudges. Exert creativity. Pursue dreams. Analyze criticism for accuracy and change accordingly.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Did you READ the book - No More Mr Nice Guy?

A "Nice Guy" is someone who's insecure and tries to get what he wants by using covert contracts to get it because he's afraid if he just says what he wants, she'll leave him.

Not being a Nice Guy doesn't mean being a jerk or ignoring your wife or not doing things for her. It means being loving and dedicated, but also keeping yourself EQUAL to her and being willing to leave the relationship if you're being treated badly.

FORMER Nice Guys don't do things just to get sex. IF she is telling you she feels like a hole you can stick it in, BELIEVE HER. That is what she feels. Because you ARE doing things just to get sex.
 
#37 ·
The alpha male doesn't apologize for his sexuality or wanting to be intimate with his wife, instead he embraces that as part of his character. He also doesn't let her outbursts phase him. Work on that.

Example:
Step 1 is answer directly with confidence about your sexuality - Of course I want to stick it in you. You're so beautiful to me that even when you're sick you turn me on.
Step 2 is finish with humor that ignores her rejection - What...you don't really think I married you because I like cleaning your hair out of the bathroom drain or because I want to always put the toilet seat down after I pee, do you? [then walk away and find something to do on your own so you leave on your terms and not because of her prior rejection]
 
#38 ·
take her off the pedestal.

it is counterintuitive, but the biggest step you can take is lessening the importance of getting what you want

ask yourself:

is having sex with her really that great?

Does achieving this hold an outsized importance to you compared to what it actually is?

Consider:

when it actually happens, is it even good? or is it really kind of boring? are you the one doing all of the work there too?

is she really hot, or just OK? when you are out in public, what percentage of women are more attractive than her? is sex with her really that special?

You probably don't want to ask yourself these questions, but if that is the case, it just reveals what a monopoly she has over you.
 
#39 ·
The above is pretty good advice. I would agree with some of the earlier replies in that your timing to judge her response might have been better, but her terse response reflects her selfish attitude. She slammed the gate shut. Your response was fine IMO.

Now what to do? Do whatever you want to do to serve her, but not in expectation of reciprocation. If you don't WANT to do something, then don't. For instance, don't go out of your way to do more than your fair share of the housework expecting her to want to screw you. She won't. But then when you want some, be assertive. When she refuses, move on, but go back again soon. Stop being her house boy, start being her man. Start expecting her to be the wife.

Turning a gatekeeper wife is not easy. Be strong.
 
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