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Men and Sexual Fantasies

14K views 76 replies 37 participants last post by  Catherine602 
#1 ·
In the midst of a conversation centering around fidelity and appropriate friends and boundaries, my husband disclosed that until recently he spent most of his time of facebook looking at friends' photos for sexual gratification but not masturbation (we don't have internet at home and he doesn't have a smartphone) when we were at the library or visiting family who had wifi. He friended women partially (at least 50%) so he could look at their photos and evaluate them sexually.

He has fewer than 100 facebook friends so these are all people he actually knows. He also revealed that he's had sexual fantasies (of different durations) about almost all of our acquaintances, including those over 70 years of age, my own mom, significantly overweight and unattractive women, the teller at the bank, his boss, several women at work, and his friends' kids "once they've grown up" ie sexual fantasies of what they would look like once they got older, like their mom or older sister, but not what they look like now (9-12 years old).

Part of the reason it bothers me is because he's had an EA that I found out about recently (she was fat, ugly, and emotionally unstable for a number of reasons), and I feel like his self-esteem as well as self-control are low. His boundaries are very low and we've had to reinforce them over the last year or so. He's young (27), but not super young. I've never had this problem in previous relationships because it never came up in conversation. I'd be happier not knowing, but I DO know. I feel like he's attracted to anything that seems remotely female and would have sex with it if given the opportunity and I'm supposed to just get over it. I've been feeling pretty sick over this, because I feel insecure and uncomfortable being around him in public.

He said he has around 30 sexual fantasies per day (studies show median for men is 19, average is 34 in number) ranging from a few seconds "flash" to a few minutes (while masturbating) which are, according to him, mostly me, then people we know, then porn stars, then faceless female bodies. He says in his fantasies they are 99% doggy style from behind sex, some include seduction ending up in doggy style, and it's mostly about domination.

How normal is this? How can we repair what feels like a really uncomfortable breach?
 
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#8 ·
How normal is this? How can we repair what feels like a really uncomfortable breach?
Icky factor aside...

Yes, men have very sexual minds. They become very active when our hormones build and queue us to bond with our partners. While these hormones build EVERYTHING seems sexual. I was making jello the other day and while it was jiggling I found myself thinking, "hmmmm I wonder what that would feel like if I stuck my **** into it!" Does this mean I will actually run to the store when I am home alone one day and buy enough boxes of jello to bake myself up a jiggly bowl of sexytime wigglers. ... perhaps I will try that...

Anyway, what was your question?

Badsanta
 
#16 ·
Icky factor aside...

Yes, men have very sexual minds. They become very active when our hormones build and queue us to bond with our partners. While these hormones build EVERYTHING seems sexual. I was making jello the other day and while it was jiggling I found myself thinking, "hmmmm I wonder what that would feel like if I stuck my **** into it!" Does this mean I will actually run to the store when I am home alone one day and buy enough boxes of jello to bake myself up a jiggly bowl of sexytime wigglers. ... perhaps I will try that...

Anyway, what was your question?

Badsanta
Reminds me of a scene in this movie...

 
#9 ·
Not surprisingly, I have an entirely different response to all this. And, I'll add that mine's actually correct b/c it's based on an understanding of fact.

You don't have an accurate understanding of men's sexuality.

Men's sexuality is a lot different than women's. Go read Kinsey's ground breaking study on sexuality, or Master's and Johnson's study, or the Hite report....they're remarkably consistent over a period of decades. Men think a lot about sex. And, a lot of the things they fantasize about aren't what you'd call "Typical" or "Expected".

Thoughts don't get us into trouble, actions do. If your H thinks about this stuff, he's not only statistically normal, but also healthy and OK. That he told you might have been an obvious mistake, don't compound it by actually saying or doing anything about it.
 
#14 ·
I asked the question BECAUSE I'm a woman and want insight into male sexuality, including many opinions. Yours is not "correct" just because it is based on your understanding of "fact" and the subject matter. Actually, several people have had many differing opinions, and I subscribe more to Festivus's opinion that sexuality exists on a spectrum, some of which can be categorized as normal or typical, and some of which falls outside of that range. As you would have realized had you read my question carefully, I did cite a study that I read (a modern one) that would describe my husband's reported daily frequency of sexual fantasies as normal, and actually slightly below the average of those that they interviewed. I was actually also asking whether the content / people involved in the fantasies were considered okay. I'm not interested in research from the 1950s. Most of us realize that a lot has changed since then regarding sexual mores and social roles, etc. For instance, Americans didn't have as many opposite sex friends, women didn't work, and Facebook didn't exist [citation needed]. Additionally, my husband told me these things, so I do have the right to react to them. Go back to the 50s for your wife that's not going to say or do anything in response to your words. So, since your comment is essentially garbage, I'm moving on to respond to others.

jorgegene, that's definitely true, but if I had my druthers I wouldn't know at all! I think most people wouldn't want to know about their partner's sexual fantasies that involve people that they know. I've read that most men fantasize about people that they know, and while I don't like it, I didn't need the confirmation. My husband's already had an EA (with one of his friends) so I don't like this feeling that there are many potential more EAs or PAs out there. His need for "ego kibbles" is pretty high (I think his self-esteem is pretty low) that while I think he prefers to be with me on the whole, anybody who told him how great he is is kind of a risk in my mind. There's more of a chance of one of his Facebook friends or a teller at the bank that he flirts with doing this, rather than like Sophia Vergara, so it makes me capital-u Uncomfortable, especially when we SEE these people.

Festivus, yes, I think you're right. I don't WANT to know. I didn't ask at first, but he let something drop in conversation, and I wanted to follow up on it. I would have felt more uneasy, in a way, if I hadn't probed because I have anxiety and my imagination would have made it a lot worse, but you can't "put the genie back into the bottle." I wish I could forget right-freakin-now, but it's going to take time.

notmyrealname4, I don't fantasize about other men much, but I've never told my husband because I know it would hurt his feelings! I even asked him how he would feel if the shoe were on the other foot, and he said he'd feel insecure and "less than" like these men have something he doesn't, and he wasn't satisfying me. Between the two of us, he is definitely the more jealous and insecure. I have a bit, but I think it's kind of indecent and violating to use a friend's image in a sexual way. I wouldn't like thinking my friends were doing the same to me. I'd fantasize about Matt Damon all day and night without a guilty feeling, but ultimately, I don't, because to me it draws focus away from the person I should be thinking about sexually and to me, diminishes something special between us by comparing him to someone else, and preferring the other person, even if for only a few minutes. That's my personal feeling, probably because my husband is very attractive, but I might feel differently once we get older and he gets a pot belly and loses his hair or whatever. If I see a good-looking man, I'll appreciate him, but my next thought is, "but he doesn't have eyes as nice as Husband's" or "he's not as fit as Husband," and let it go pretty quickly. I don't see the point in wasting my energy, and I feel like my husband is wasting his energy. But some people like window-shopping. Also, yes, he has a job, but he doesn't use computers at his job. This is when we're at the public library 2-3 times / week, or visiting family.

GorillaT, that's the main thing that bothers me. It feels to me less like fantasizing and more like keeping his options open. Many of these women are not attractive in themselves, but represent something attractive. However, I'm only a human being, and I can't compete with a fantasy.

For instance, he lost his parents young and is not close to his family. As far as I understand (because I didn't want to hear much), he was thinking about these kids because they come from a large, intact nuclear family. He said he has thought about what it would be like when they're older (18+) and to have them look up to him (I'm older than he is and am not impressed unless he does something impressive) and raise a family like theirs with them. He said sometimes the fantasies turned sexual, but since the older versions of them are not real, their images turn into their mother or their older sister (who is 20). He said that the fact that he's thought those things make him feel uncomfortable around them. He's very much attracted to adult females and I don't think it's a pedophilia thing, but he's always YEARNING. He likes height in most cases, and large breasts, plump rear ends, and is not into shaved pubic hair, though I'm not sure if those are any indications of anything.

I'll suggest that he seek IC, but I think he was leaning toward it anyway. I'll mention my concerns regarding some of this sexual stuff and see if he wants to bring it up with the counselor he finds.
 
#10 ·
reminds me of an anne landers story i read years ago.

a wife wrote to say her husband was super horny and propositioned just about every female he ran into, including her mom (his MIL).

now your husband only fantasizes as far as you know and doesn't act on his fantasies.

i don't know. i certainly can't speak for the male race, but i am male and i don't fantasize about women like that.
i sometimes look, i sometimes gaze, i appreciate, and that's usually as far as it goes.
 
#12 ·
If most women knew what went on in the heads of most of the men they love, they would run screaming for the exits.

Your husband sounds like he's a couple of sigma to the right of the mean in the number of women over whom he fantasizes, but that he does it at all is not in the least bit unusual. We're all somewhere on the "spectrum", and we all like to think our position in the histogram is average, or special, or normal.
 
#13 ·
I'm not going to necessarily knock him for his fantasies, other than the deal with the young kids of friends that I'm still trying to wrap my head around. I'd be more concerned about the feeling I get from your other threads that to him, you're more of an option than a wife.
 
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#23 · (Edited)
But you're supposed to be okay with being insecure and "less than" And you are "less than" to him. Why do I know that? Because he used that phrase; not you. He projected what he feels onto you.

Sure he likes sex with you. Is probably attracted to you. But you cannot compete with the sexual Disneyland he has going on in his mind. And not just in his mind; there's that pesky EA he had, that you're supposed to "just get over"

And it bothers him to think of you having a mental sexual Disneyland of your own; because he knows what that means. He knows that your deepest lusts and desires are focused on the people in the fantasies in your mind.
Yes, that's the majority of the problem. I don't want to do the tit for tat thing, because as you mentioned, it's not romantic and it's ultimately unproductive. I feel like it's a waste of my time fantasizing about other men and the effort I'd put into printing even one image of Matt Damon is effort I should be putting into my marriage. I did retaliate once. He told me he was attracted to a coworker, and I told him I was also attracted to one of HIS coworkers. He acted all hurt and whipped puppy, and his reasoning was this: he told me about his attraction out of honesty, which is a pure motive, and I told him about mine on purpose to hurt his feelings, which is a bad motive and "mean." I try to tell him that intentions don't matter, actions do, but he doesn't get it. He doesn't understand tact and he doesn't seem to understand reciprocity. He does plenty of hurtful things (see: EA) and instead of telling him how I feel, I ask how HE would feel. He always says things like hurt, lack of trust, upset, etc etc. He's got some problems with immaturity and low self-esteem which probably drive all of this.

Festivus, I didn't see the comment as ****-shaming. It was definitely tough, but on my husband's behavior and words. There was nothing about him being a bad person because he likes sex or because he fantasizes about other women, but that he shows insensitivity in seeking out sexual images and then telling me, and then getting offended and upset when I do the same, and saying he wouldn't like it if I did the same. Why do you think your wife would "shame" you? I think she'd be hurt, do you? If so, why do you think she would be hurt? Isn't that hurt justification enough to just keep your mouth shut about it? What negative consequences could occur from you telling your wife you spent time fantasizing about having sex with a lot of other women? How would you deal with her negative emotions?

SunnyT, interesting questions, but I'll be damned if I'm having sex with a man that doesn't show his wife the smallest amount of respect. If he wants to get it elsewhere, he can, but since he wants to stay married, he will show respect and help repair the breach he caused by his behavior first (especially the EA, of course. D-day wasn't even two weeks ago) before expecting sex. Honestly, though, he's done this no matter what, and I think most men are probably the same. No amount is good enough for my husband, and trust me, it's not a turn on. I think that's just how he is. I've gotten responses saying it's normal, it's not normal, it's creepy, it's hyper-normal and the ultimate in normal behavior. With responses all over the map, I'm inclined to believe most of it's fairly common, and parts are abnormal. I think Festivus mentioned before that one of the most interesting parts is that he actually told me. It's not something anyone wants to know about their spouse, normal or not, and now I'm dealing with it.

Having a bowel movement is normal and healthy, but you don't do it right in front of your spouse's face in the living room. It changes how people think of you.
 
#21 ·
Interesting topic.

Question: Does the level of a man's sexual fulfillment relate to the number or variety of fantasies?

As in, if a man is sexually satisfied (or satisfied with his sex life) is he still fantasizing about so many other females? Would he have less fantasies about other women if he had as much sex as he'd like? Would he be more likely to fantasize about his wife is she were really satisfying him?
 
#24 ·
There may very well be a relationship between frequency of sexual fantasy and fulfillment at home. But expecting men to stop fantasizing because they are fulfilled at home runs counter to evolution, so I don't think it is reasonable.

Note that I'm not saying they should act on those fantasies as they relate to other females, as that is a very bad idea.
 
#29 ·
I've asked my wife this question. She says that she certainly notices attractive men, but it's never sexual.

I don't know if she's lying to protect my feelings, but after 30 years together, I believe her. Sex is for her a result of a relationship, not a precursor.
 
#32 ·
Matt, you sound like me. I notice but try not to take it too far because it's unnecessary. It seems disrespectful to me, and I certainly wouldn't tell my husband if I did!

Festivus, you're the one that said your wife would sl*t shame you if she knew what you were thinking on vacation. I asked why you think she would. I don't think I endorsed that reaction to learning about sexual fantasies. If I did, I didn't mean to. Also, you can think I'm over-reacting. You're not alone in thinking that. I'm not alone in thinking I'm not. "Just get over it" isn't working for me, especially not from people who haven't experienced the same thing, especially because of the EA. I deserve to feel my feelings and react to my environment, and that's my stance on that.
That said, I think your insights and opinions are valuable and I appreciate them. It seems like you have (probably because I see you as an old guy because of the Frank Costanza pic), and I respect where you're coming from with your perspective. How long have you been married?
 
#34 ·
Festivus, you're the one that said your wife would sl*t shame you if she knew what you were thinking on vacation. I asked why you think she would. I don't think I endorsed that reaction to learning about sexual fantasies.
Because she doesn't have a reference point. Because even I ****-shame myself once in a while. If a smokin' hot 16 year old in a thong walks by on the beach, I might have to bury my head in my book to not imagine behavior that society has very clearly labeled as deviant, for good reason.

And because I know my wife, who has a long history of being somewhat sexually repressed.

I have a different perspective. I'm glad to find that my wife notices other men. I would be just as glad - no elated, in fact - to hear that she has sexual fantasies about them. The person who never fantasizes about the odd stranger on the street is a person who, IMHO, has so little sex drive that I would fear for the health of our sexual relationship - and I don't mean that comment hypothetically.

How long have you been married?
30 years, with arguments and issues over mismatched sexual drives and attitudes absolutely dwarfing every other source of marital discord between us.
 
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#33 ·
Some of his examples are creepy (kids?) and inappropriate, especially when verbalized to an insecure wife post-EA. They don't inspire confidence or trust. But most of the fantasies themselves are not outside the realm of what most men experience as part of our testosterone addled brains. If there's at least marginal sexual attraction, there's the possibility of some fleeting fantasy forming before it can even be shoved to the side.

How's your sex life? You wrote some things that made me question your attraction to him right now. If he feels deprived, he's likely seeking sexual validation elsewhere. Fantasies don't reject you. All his fantasies are about domination (and women that submit).

As long as they're fantasies and not acted on or obsessed over to the point of detracting from the relationship, then they don't necessarily pose a lot of harm.

A history of an EA, a curated FB friendliest of women he's attracted to, mindlessly chattering to his wife about all manner of sexual imagery that pops in his head, and poor boundaries - now those things are damaging.



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#35 ·
I will also reference the book:Men in love by Nancy Friday
https://www.amazon.com/Men-Love-Nancy-Friday/dp/0385333420

My late wife read this in her book club of female friends. All found the content about men shocking. I have not read this nor do I know enough to say that the OP husband in not normal.

I will admit that I can’t stop my mind from “Going places” when I see something I like. Thinking and acting are two very different things.
 
#36 ·
I will admit that I can’t stop my mind from “Going places” when I see something I like. Thinking and acting are two very different things.
A friend of mine and I have a shortcut for this.

When we're out together, if a strikingly attractive yet clearly underage girl walks by, he leans over and says "You're a pig". That is, if I don't say it to him first.
 
#37 ·
Sorry to jump to the end without reading all of this... but I'd like to say that I am visually aroused. I enjoy a variety of sexual imagery that I don't actually want to do. It's eyes to the sexual part of the brain to the machinery. Completely bypasses the thinking or emotional part of my brain. Sometimes highly graphic imagery works well, other times the sex acts are of NO interest but if the actors (women) do a reasonably good job of pretending to be enjoying it, then it works. Kind of like building a meal out if a la carte items.

I've shared some with W and told her what I like. But not the bad stuff.

Your H seems to be conflating sexual feelings and emotions with general well being feelings and emotions. Probably because he is not emotionally intelligent (like most men). Both "feel good". Same reason some peopke eat - to feel better.

IC might help him and a sex therapist in particular can help disentangle this,


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#39 ·
I've shared some with W and told her what I like. But not the bad stuff.

Your H seems to be conflating sexual feelings and emotions with general well being feelings and emotions. Probably because he is not emotionally intelligent (like most men). Both "feel good". Same reason some peopke eat - to feel better.

IC might help him and a sex therapist in particular can help disentangle this
HA! Your name is perfect for my situation. I really don't want to know, but now I do and I'm like ??? Seriously, though, I think it's fine to share sexual fantasies about acts, but not about people that we know. I know he has a couple of celebrity crushes and idgaf about that. There's a difference between "I've always wanted to try / I really prefer this sexual act" and "I love barbecuing at Stacy's house. Sometimes I fantasizing about bending her over that picnic table in the yard and going for it!"

Interesting insight about the emotional response. One of this older friends suggested he seek counseling about the sex issues as well (and yeah, there's more to the story).
 
#41 ·
And I'm yet another different kind of example. Contrary to what was suggested earlier, I really don't fantasize about other women, don't have any celebrity crushes, honestly can't remember ever looking at some random woman and wondering what she looked like naked, what it would be like to have sex with her, yet...I have a very high drive, frequent thoughts and fantasies about my wife, and our sex life it very frequent and outstanding. She never really believed me when she would ask me about things like that, and I told her I never really thought like that. Thought I was lying to protect her feelings, until one night when we went to the strip club together. After a while of rather up close action, my wife decided to grab my crotch under the table and was shocked to discover I wasn't even remotely hard, then I think the truth of what I had always contended...she was the one who aroused me, finally sank in, because my response to her touch was rather noticeable, rather quickly.

Now her on the other hand...yeah, she's the one who has the celebrity crushes, oogles the half naked facebook cowboys, gushes with other people, has no problems talking about them, yet finds it difficult to do the same about me...so yeah, I think in some ways, I can relate to how you are feeling.
 
#47 ·
Your husband is sexually indiscriminate and that is concerning. You know of one past EA. These two combined cause me to see a red flag.


There is a difference between being attracted to someone, and have a flash mental image of that person naked having sex. A huge difference so keep that in mind.

I found this concerning too:
For instance, he lost his parents young and is not close to his family. As far as I understand (because I didn't want to hear much), he was thinking about these kids because they come from a large, intact nuclear family. He said he has thought about what it would be like when they're older (18+) and to have them look up to him (I'm older than he is and am not impressed unless he does something impressive) and raise a family like theirs with them. He said sometimes the fantasies turned sexual, but since the older versions of them are not real, their images turn into their mother or their older sister (who is 20). He said that the fact that he's thought those things make him feel uncomfortable around them. He's very much attracted to adult females and I don't think it's a pedophilia thing, but he's always YEARNING. He likes height in most cases, and large breasts, plump rear ends, and is not into shaved pubic hair, though I'm not sure if those are any indications of anything.
His fantasies involve his domination but in real life it doesn't seem as if he has much power or control over his life. Losing his parents and not feeling connected to a family plays into a lack of power and control over his life. So his sexual fantasies involve him being in control. This in and of itself is perfectly fine. But looking at children and admitting to sexual fantasies that involve them (nice recovery on him for claiming he is envisioning them as grown women) amounts to a HUGE GIANT GLARING red fvcking flag!!!!

His inhibition control is minimal. He had 1 ea that you know of. He admitted to you things no man should admit to unless he is absolutely certain his relationship can handle it (this is like instinctual male behavior for crying out loud! There is no manual that teaches men not to tell their wives how hot the next door neighbor is and how he likes to watch her!)

Okay so indiscriminate sexual fantasy. check
Lack of appropriate boundaries. Check
Lack of inhibition. Check
Lack of control. Check
Lack of close familial ties. Check
Fantasizes about prepubescent girls. Check

Make an appointment with a therapist who specializes in sexual dysfunction and discuss all of this with the therapist then ask for guidance.

Make sure your husband has ZERO opportunity to be alone with ANY minor child, even his own!

Do not discuss with him you plans to make this appointment. You are doing this for two reasons.
1. To enlist expert guidance on assessing his potential to molest children.
2. To enlist expert guidance on next steps whether expert thinks there is high probability or not.

Your husband has too many characteristics of an indiscriminate pedophile and it is your DUTY to seek expert guidance.

Remember Jerry Sandusky? The Penn State football coach who molested hundreds of boys before someone finally came forward? Turn out those closest to him saw warning signs all along and kept silent.

Don't keep silent.
 
#50 ·
Women are sl*t shamed because men are jealous when women have sex with people other than them. They place so much importance on sex that they difficulty in achieving it gives them sour grapes. They admire promiscuous men so they can live vicariously through them and take a part in putting women "in their place" as inferior life forms, instead of people who are also taking part in the envied behavior (frequent sex with different partners). But that's just my opinion.

Yeah, anon pink, like I said a lot of stuff about the situation is troubling and uncomfortable. I'll say again that I didn't seek the information- it was something he let drop that I asked about to get clarification. As much as I hate knowing what I know, honestly my imagination is much worse! I think I had an unrealistic hope that I wouldn't find out things as bad as what I did. Part of it is that it does bother me more with him. For instance, my ex-boyfriend was a sweet and attractive guy, but pretty timid and sensitive. He would know better than seeing and talking with his ex-girlfriend behind my back and getting into an EA. He would know better than to flirt with his co-workers, bank tellers, and whoever else I don't know about. He could fantasize about every woman in town, but 1) he'd know better than to actually hint or say anything about it, and 2) I'd be more secure in the fact that he wouldn't actually DO anything because he wasn't sexually indiscriminate, hadn't had an EA, was too shy to flirt (besides knowing better), and was very devoted to me while we were together. I have those doubts based on my husband's actual past conduct, which is where most of the discomfort and insecurity comes in. And there's even more, which I don't think is quite relevant because I think we've moved on from it, but it comes up in my thoughts when something like this happens. I'm still weighing my options in this case.

And I don't think I should have to say this, but I will, just in case it takes off: my husband isn't a child molester, and doesn't spend much time with children at all. I haven't seen him around the children in question, so I can't say what he's like, but I've seen him with other kids, and he's kind of like me: a detached well-wisher. I might like to have kids one day, but they aren't all that interesting. We'll chat with them, but other people's kids get old pretty fast.
 
#51 ·
Im glad to hear the biggest red flag, when combined with many other red flags.. The one red flag that is consistent with every child molester is: "he's so great with kids! He is devoted and opens his home and heart..." That one single thing is present in every child molester. However, it's also present in people who would never ever ever not with a gun to their heads... Which is why it is used to screen out anyone who has many other red flags. I don't know about you but I feel better now!
 
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#53 ·
Yeah, I'm not worried about his behavior, and he doesn't give me "that" feeling. I've definitely had people that ping my radar, and while I didn't notice them do anything wrong or inappropriate, you're right: it doesn't do to be complacent or too trusting. It's absolutely wise for all of us to keep our eyes and ears open, and not ignore our instincts.
 
#55 ·
Completely unrestrained sexuality is a threat to the stability of the society. Think fall of Rome.



So women are slüt shamed to keep them in line. Men aren't shamed because they are already constrained by all the women who won't give them any.

Ha ha that's funny. Nice comeback.

Frankly I don't really know anyone who "slvt shames" and I haven't personally seen it, so it's not really a "thing" in my life.

Then again maybe that's because I live in an upper middle class, sexually repressed, Midwestern town.

Certainly "slvtery" is called out by parents to their children as part of child rearing, particularly in the context of sexual attitudes between boys and girls, and the tendency of boys to go for sex and girls to naively believe love and feelings are involved. But I think, if anything, it is more "dog shaming" as we are a pretty uptight lot.

When we see neighbors and classmates running around and appearing sexually active in nonmonogamous ways, we're usually concerned for them as opposed to being antagonistic toward them.

Slvt shaming may be more prevalent in other communities and the media, but not in my real life experience.

Frankly, a much bigger concern for me now is teaching my impossibly naive, smart, good looking athletic boys about the world outside our little bubble. They are far more likely to get played by a girl than anything else.



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