What if you are a fairly cut up, buff beta with a good job, decent looking etc. Will you still lose women just because you are too nice?
What if being nice is really who you are? What if you are nice, but never compromise your principles and stay true to yourself? Are you then a mellow Alpha?
How about if you are rich enough and good looking enough , such that when you lose the woman due to being a Beta, you seem to have plenty of other options for female companionship? Would you still try to convert to Alpha?
Is being Alpha a pain in the ass and tiring?
Was just wondering about all this while I was doing 150lbs dumbell curls. Off to the pose down, then to see my investment broker, then to feed the homeless.
Be who you are. I think it's generally assumed that nice guys aren't really nice guys, they are a wolf in sheep's clothing and the idea is to allow the wolf to get some play.
My opinion is that if you know what you stand for in life, and do it in your marriage, without getting lazy about it, then if you lose her, she is a loser. Oh, and make sure that she knows what she stands for - its called integrity.
I'm an alpha type - I don't think people can just decide to be alpha, and no woman that hasn't already decided to be a cheater will cheat with an alpha.
On the cheating, if you are Beta, you get it due to her loss of attraction, right. But, don't Alphas get the "contolling/abusive/emotionally neglecful" justification thrown at them?
I was with stbxw for 42 years, more joy and happiness than anything else. In my experience just being one thing, alpha, beta or whatever it is just doesn’t cut the ice. Plus people change and time changes people, so we’re never the same person at the end as when we started out, although it seems some change far more than others based on their actual willingness to change. Sometimes we just have to change our game/behaviour to successfully meet and overcome new challenges as they arise. And sometimes to stay in the game we have to change some fundamental core values, beliefs and rules deep inside our psyche because the ones we have quite obviously aren’t working for us.
For me a man has to wear many hats during the course of his marriage, the nurse, the nurturer, the bread winner, the defender, the decorator, the maintainer, the gardener, the leader, the protector, the motivator, the inspirer, the teacher, the tough lover, the host, the entertainer, the confident, the coach, the soul mate, the buddy, the friend, the lover, the romantic. Alpha/beta what on earth is that?
On the cheating, if you are Beta, you get it due to her loss of attraction, right. But, don't Alphas get the "contolling/abusive/emotionally neglecful" justification thrown at them?
When it comes to marriage, we all have to exist on a sliding scale when it comes to our mix of what people call alpha or beta traits. Maybe the labels only apply to the initial impression people throw off. There is no law that says a beta type can't be passionate in his love of his wife, so this dominance instinct in bed will keep her happy.
Arnold, it’s my contention and posit that if a wife or husband is a cheater then they will cheat. If they are not a cheater then they will not cheat. It has nothing to do with their partner being Alpha, Beta, Black, White, Chinese, German or anything else. Cheaters cheat. It’s what they do and it’s as simple as that.
Cheaters play the “You made me do it!” or “Look at what you made me do!” Game. In these cases it’s best to think of them and treat them the same way you would a seven year old because that’s exactly how they are behaving.
Arnold, it’s my contention and posit that if a wife or husband is a cheater then they will cheat. If they are not a cheater then they will not cheat. It has nothing to do with their partner being Alpha, Beta, Black, White, Chinese, German or anything else. Cheaters cheat. It’s what they do and it’s as simple as that.
Exactly. When the marriage falls down, some women and men roll up their sleeves, and work on the marriage. But when the going gets tough, cheaters cheat. They replace the missing love with instant gratification.
This is meant mainly for musing - just my own Friday opinion, so please, please take this with a grain of salt. Like many others, I tend to be a people watcher. Maybe I'm terrible at it. But look at just the types of personality traits that many of us equate to a person who would likely cheat, and ask yourself if it is you, the beta man who caused it, or the cheater:
Cheaters can be easliy manipulated in general. Talk to them, and you can change their belief on moral issues in one or two conversations. They can go to the store to buy the nice laptop that the two of you researched for four hours, but they'll come back with the ipad when a good friend tells them that it'll suit her needs better. They are often very sensitive, and can't stand to be told 'No'. Make an open comment, like, "Wow, that dress!" and they'll get emotional. They like to be 'in the in crowd', or if they are an introvert, they like to make sure that their feelings are considered in almost anything you do. And their ability to change a story on the fly is better than most. White lies are their expertise. They don't cope well at all with arguments that extend past a few days. They'll cut their losses.
Extremes of either are non-productive in terms of nurturing a long term relationship.
A healthy mix of both is what is required.
Exactly. It's not a zero-sum game. You don't sacrifice Beta at the expense of Alpha, you develop both, and work most on the one at which you are weakest. Alpha builds strong sexual attraction and maintains sexual interest. Beta encourages comfort within the relationship. Too much Alpha, and yeah, you're an asshat. Too much Beta, and you're a Nice Guy. Either way, an extreme amount of one and a deficit in the other will cause you serious problems down the line.
Being Alpha doesn't mean giving up being nice. It's controlling how and when you dispense your niceness, out of the grace of your heart and because you damn well feel like it. I've met plenty of nice Alphas who had huge charisma and dominated the conversation but did it through the strength of their presentation and personality, not by being asshats.
It also doesn't mean disparaging your valuable Beta traits. Your woman wants you to be a good nest builder. But if all you do is build and feather her nest, then her 'other' nest is going to start craving some Alpha. If you can't provide it . . . well, hilarity ensues.
The whole Alpha/Beta thing is a far more sophisticated concept than most men initially think. Don't think of it as single switch, but as dual controls: you can up the Alpha by being commanding, decisive, and resolute; you can up the Beta by being commanding, decisive, and resolute about what color to paint the bathroom.
Exactly. When the marriage falls down, some women and men roll up their sleeves, and work on the marriage. But when the going gets tough, cheaters cheat. They replace the missing love with instant gratification.
This is meant mainly for musing - just my own Friday opinion, so please, please take this with a grain of salt. Like many others, I tend to be a people watcher. Maybe I'm terrible at it. But look at just the types of personality traits that many of us equate to a person who would likely cheat, and ask yourself if it is you, the beta man who caused it, or the cheater:
Cheaters can be easliy manipulated in general. Talk to them, and you can change their belief on moral issues in one or two conversations. They can go to the store to buy the nice laptop that the two of you researched for four hours, but they'll come back with the ipad when a good friend tells them that it'll suit her needs better. They are often very sensitive, and can't stand to be told 'No'. Make an open comment, like, "Wow, that dress!" and they'll get emotional. They like to be 'in the in crowd', or if they are an introvert, they like to make sure that their feelings are considered in almost anything you do. And their ability to change a story on the fly is better than most. White lies are their expertise. They don't cope well at all with arguments that extend past a few days. They'll cut their losses.
Okay, enough of the Friday talk.
Well I don’t know about manipulating a cheater. But cheaters play all sorts of Unhealthy Games. There’s the Minimising the Affects Game where they say “We only kissed, I don’t know what you’re worried about it doesn’t affect you at all!”. There’s the Denial Game “What me, having an affair how could you think such a thing I’m not that type of woman!”. There’s the Blame Game/You made Me Do It Game/It’s All Your Fault Game “If you’d treated me right over the past 20 years I wouldn’t have had an affair!”. Etc.
I think when viewed as Games People Play we can truly see what’s going on. And I think this is because we take our emotional involvement out of the dynamics. And in that way we are like an observer of the interactions of the game as well as a participant, which for sure the Loyal Spouse is. In that way we are like one of our friends standing on the sideline watching it all go on and because they can see both participants in an unemotional way they have a greater understanding of what’s actually happening and why.
Exactly. It's not a zero-sum game. You don't sacrifice Beta at the expense of Alpha, you develop both, and work most on the one at which you are weakest. Alpha builds strong sexual attraction and maintains sexual interest. Beta encourages comfort within the relationship. Too much Alpha, and yeah, you're an asshat. Too much Beta, and you're a Nice Guy. Either way, an extreme amount of one and a deficit in the other will cause you serious problems down the line.
Being Alpha doesn't mean giving up being nice. It's controlling how and when you dispense your niceness, out of the grace of your heart and because you damn well feel like it. I've met plenty of nice Alphas who had huge charisma and dominated the conversation but did it through the strength of their presentation and personality, not by being asshats.
It also doesn't mean disparaging your valuable Beta traits. Your woman wants you to be a good nest builder. But if all you do is build and feather her nest, then her 'other' nest is going to start craving some Alpha. If you can't provide it . . . well, hilarity ensues.
The whole Alpha/Beta thing is a far more sophisticated concept than most men initially think. Don't think of it as single switch, but as dual controls: you can up the Alpha by being commanding, decisive, and resolute; you can up the Beta by being commanding, decisive, and resolute about what color to paint the bathroom.
Well I don’t know about manipulating a cheater. But cheaters play all sorts of Unhealthy Games. There’s the Minimising the Affects Game where they say “We only kissed, I don’t know what you’re worried about it doesn’t affect you at all!”. There’s the Denial Game “What me, having an affair how could you think such a thing I’m not that type of woman!”. There’s the Blame Game/You made Me Do It Game/It’s All Your Fault Game “If you’d treated me right over the past 20 years I wouldn’t have had an affair!”. Etc.
I think when viewed as Games People Play we can truly see what’s going on. And I think this is because we take our emotional involvement out of the dynamics. And in that way we are like an observer of the interactions of the game as well as a participant, which for sure the Loyal Spouse is. In that way we are like one of our friends standing on the sideline watching it all go on and because they can see both participants in an unemotional way they have a greater understanding of what’s actually happening and why.
What I was referring to was the types of characteristics that we tend to attribute to the kind of person who 'is a cheater at heart'. They may not cheat on you for years. And it was really a light-hearted approach of putting the guilty emphasis on the cheater, and not the person who was cheated on. They cheat because they are a cheater - but what amalgamation of mirrored traits actually make them a cheater??
There are plenty of people who claim that they can spot a cheater on their first date. This was what I was jokingly going for. I added the manipulation trait to a cheater because I've noticed that a few of the people I know who turned out to be cheaters seem to be missing a strictly defined sense of 'self'. They tend to mirror the traits of those they are in a relationship with, like the William Faulkner's 'A Rose for Emily'.
Alpha vs Beta 
I literally laughed out loud because I'm so exhausted, I had to read that 4 times and still didn't get it.
