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Question for the men - what am I doing wrong?

20K views 177 replies 37 participants last post by  uhtred 
#1 ·
Only twice in my life have I felt an exciting, mutual attraction to a man. In most cases, he's much more into me than I am into him. In fact, I've steered clear of having male friends because usually they end up wanting to date me. I also have a hard time with online dating, because I seem to get the guy who's way too into me way too soon. I usually call it off by the end of the first or second date if I'm not 100% into the guy, because I can see him looking at me like I'm the woman he wants... but he's not who I want and I hate being in that position!!

What am I doing wrong, if anything? Why is it easy to find a guy who will fall for me (and I'm not bragging, I've been proposed to 4 times in my life!) and so hard to find a man who I fall for?
 
#4 · (Edited)
Be careful for what you wish for as you may get it! You might find a great guy, fall for him and find out he will not commit to any kind of relationship.

Typically in a M/F relationship, one partner desires the other more intensely. I may be reading too much into your limited comments.

It sounds like you want to be the one that has a greater level of desire (at least initially), that you want to be head over heels in love/lust. (You don't want to wait for more than 2 dates to allow a guy to work his way into your heart.)

So what is it you do to see if you are 100% into a guy before the end of the 2nd date? Could it be some guys are a little shy? Does your "into him 100%" testing involve kissing, sex. pheromones, facial symmetry, upper body muscles, intelligence, humor, wealth, earning potential, the way he looks, the way her dresses, sophistication?

MW Davis has some great advice for couples who are not liking what is happening in their relationship. It is called doing a 180. It means, what you are doing, isn't working so act in a different way to trigger a different response from your partner(s).

What it sounds like to me is you are probably sending off mixed messages to the men you go out with. You want to fall in love, but you want instant sexual chemistry tension, you want them to be vulnerable and open up to you so you can quickly and efficiently judge them or drop them. Not sure that is attractive to most guys.

You need to figure out what it is that you really want and how to fairly communicate that. Let's say a guy asks if he can take you out to coffee. Do you get bubbly and flirt with him? How do you see if he will pass your instant "into him 100% test." Do you explain that at this point in your life you are not looking for a soul mate, husband, or serious boyfriend? Or do you throw yourself at him to see if it ignites chemistry in you?

Once you understand what you want, what your boundaries are, then look for a guy is at the same stage in life or at least who understands where you are.

Most guys want to be with women who make them feel good about themselves. The want to feel sexually desired by a woman. Many men want the woman to make them feel more masculine.

For a serious relationship, most guys want someone who has similar values, future goals, someone you are proud of, proud to bring home to his parents, relatives at holidays, and friends. They want someone they can trust with their checkbook and credit rating, someone who won't cheat on them, someone who will be a good partner and take care of them when they need taking care of. You don't get there on two or less dates, it takes time. But that is what builds the basis for a strong long term relationship.

If you are a little less desperate (less than 2 dates, really?) to falling in love and spend more time getting to know "good prospects" you just might fall in love with someone who will last.

As someone who has been married for 45+ years, it takes time to get to know someone.
 
#5 ·
You're cutting it off too soon, that's your mistake. Expecting to be 100% into someone in the first several dates is expecting too much to quickly. Sometimes feelings do develop that quickly but for me anyway most don't. I knew my wife for four years before we started dating. And although we knew we wanted to be married within weeks (which is super fast compared to many) we weren't 100% into each other until after five or so dates.

Imagine it had been you, you probably could have detected my interest in you and mis interpreted as 100% too early and dropped me after the second date. Perhaps something could have grown and perhaps I would have been a good match but because you dropped me so fast you wil never know.

I think you need to learn to be with men and have fun but not let them drive the entire thing. You need to be comfortable with learning about people and let things develop. Fear is preventing you from really discovering who those men really are.

And it's not like the relationship with my wife was the first and only "magical" experience. I had proposed to two other women first. One had an affair and dumped me while we were engaged and the other was just never into me. I remained friends with the later for years and both of these relationships taught me what I wanted out of marriage. Likewise Mrs. meson went through similar relationships and learned what she wanted in a marriage. Both of us knowing what we wanted is what enabled us to know so fast that we had found our matches..

Take the risk and learn from each experience.
 
#6 ·
Think about what signals you may be accidentally sending with words body language and clothes. You clearly have the ability to attract men, which is great, but you need to be able to be friendly without encouraging flirtation.

Now, some men will harass woman without any encouragement. If that is what is going on, that is an entirely different situation and not your fault at all. Here I'm assuming you are being friendly, they are just misinterpreting the type of friendship you are lookign for

Are these in situations where you are starting to date someone and they want to get too close too soon, or is this is non-dating social situations?
 
#7 ·
First, this is really only dating situations, as I don't keep male friends that have any sexual interest in me at all. I don't want the pressure or hassle of having someone make advances when I've already said no.

As for cutting it off after the second date, I have yet to continue on to a third or fourth date that I didn't look back on and wished I'd ended it after the second.

The thing is, I am good at making a man feel good about himself. And I'm not demanding about money (I make my own, thanks!) I have a solid head on my shoulders, know how to be feminine and yet can go on a hike/camp and enjoy getting dirty. I'be been described by more than a few men as "fun." And these were not men I dated; they were people who just know me.

Anyway, if I go out on a date (doing online dating), I act like I would on a date. I flirt, I joke, I am open. This is who I am and how I am. I see this as their opportunity to show me who they are, but I usually don't feel the spark back.

I have also been stalked twice by men who I went either on one or two dates with. Not serious stuff, but enough to make me cautious. And I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Some people may call me narcissist, but I'm really not. I'm just me, honestly! I'm happy with who I am and I think guys find that attractive. I'm not the best looking woman, maybe a 7?
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#8 ·
As for cutting it off after the second date, I have yet to continue on to a third or fourth date that I didn't look back on and wished I'd ended it after the second.
If this is the case then the problem is you choose the wrong men to date.
 
#9 ·
how old are you?

while i do believe that spark and chemistry you speak of exists.....and is sure exciting and enthralling.....in most cases......a long term successful relationship wont come of it once you realize the person has flaws just like everyone else.

i think age teaches us to appreciate some of the more important things then those giddy initial feelings.
 
#13 ·
So, you go on a bunch of dates and get proposed to by guys you really aren't in to. What are you in to? Maybe you like the ladies? Have you ever really been into a guy? You don't seem to give anyone a chance, and either that's on you because you are cutting it off too short, or on you because you are accepting dates from guys that have no chance.

Consider what you want, and if you are as in demand as you think you are, only date those guys. If you don't get dates with those guys, maybe you aren't in as high of demand as you think you are. So then stay single or settle.
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#15 ·
It's not that I'm that "in demand." I'm not a 10 or anyone's dream girl.

I have been into a few guys where they were single and so was I. That hasn't happened in a long time. And I'm just very picky. No need to lay out all my particulars. I'll read your suggestions and think them through. Please keep posting... I have something to learn here.
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#20 ·
You must have missed it where I said I don't do this. I don't keep male friends who are interested in me in any way. Not fair to either of us, honestly, and it's not an ego boost - it's wrong!

I do want a better man than I'm finding out there, but I'm not going for the "challenge." If some man thinks it's fun being a challenging person to date, I'm not interested. No games, thanks. Mutual attraction doesn't require being coy, "too busy," mixed messages, etc. but maybe that's it - I just don't want to play the game?!?
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#23 ·
Have you only/mainly dated men who contact you or approach in person? Or, (if you use online dating) do you contact men whose profiles show the traits you would like in a man? If you are letting men do all the initiating, then for whatever reason (in-person personality, or how you come across online) you are attracting the wrong men. If you are not initiating, then I suggest you consider doing so, to have more control over who you meet. If you already are initiating, then you probably need some people who know you well to give you honest feedback about how you present and how men interpret that.
 
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#38 ·
Well, I've been separated for nearly a year now. By law you must be live apart for a year before you can divorce. And while it's true that I may have some issues from my marriage that I might project, I don't know how to get past those issues unless I'm in the situation where I can get past them.

It's like saying you have a bad streak in shooting freethrows - to get better, you have to get out there and shoot! Now, if you have psyched yourself out, you need to work on that. Sure. But I recognize what I went through and how it affected me and I'm actively trying to be a better person/less impacted by my past. That's all we can ask for when someone has been married before - that they aren't 100 free from their past but that they recognize when it may be impacting them and actively try to not let it be an issue. I think you won't know there's an issue until you actually face it! In the case of the one man I dated, what was funny to me was that the biggest issue wasn't something I'd experienced in my marriage - it was something I didn't have to deal with, and that was the man making himself available. So, you never really know unless you get out there. And the fact that I'm on here, asking questions, looking at myself, etc., says I'm trying to be better today than I was yesterday. ;)
 
#48 ·
Let the shredding begin! I don't shred, but I will point out inconsistencies...

[*]Educated (at least a BA)
90% reasonable. Education is important, though, many smart people are able to forgo due to being aggressive. But I am sure they could probably take a minimum knowledge test to get a waiver...

[*]Lives fairly close to me (I don't want to drive more than 1 hour to see them, as I have limited time as it is)
100% reasonable. LD never works (in my opinion)

[*]Make at least as much money as me (I want an equal)
20% reasonable. You don't want an equal, you want at LEAST an equal, whereas, he will be getting at MOST an equal. This is a common thread in society today where many women can look for a man who makes as much or more than him, while he likely can only find women making as much or less than him.

The other aspect is what you define as an equal. Sometimes less stress, free time and other aspects of life are fringe benefits and have value attaches that would needed to be converted into real dollars.

[*]No conservatives/church goers/hunters/NASCAR fans/
95% reasonable. I appreciate all these points, but you are somewhat grouping a segment together with this. I agree, but only 95% so.

[*]Confident
75% reasonable. Clearly confidence is important, and that also ties into your successful requirement, but it's a broad term that is very subjective.

[*]Taller than me
0% reasonable. We are all the same height lying down. Maybe it's my shorty bias in this, but it's amazing to me that someone would possibly deny a love of a lifetime due to being 1 or 2 inches taller than their mate.

[*]Neither fat nor a body builder (not attactive to me; bulky muscles look unnatural!)
90% reasonable. Attractiveness is important, and often heavy people get heavier as they get older. Musclebound people tend to focus on themselves as they get older.

[*]Comfortable with who he is
80% reasonable. As long as he makes as much money as you, is taller, in good shape but not too buff, is an atheist and is sure of himself.

[*]Not Type-A (I don't want to have to keep up all the time or always be on the go!)
15% reasonable, based on your other points. The likelihood of you finding someone else that covers all those other points and isn't Type A or Alpha is really a stretch.

[*]Makes me laugh - this one is really important!!!
75% reasonable. Is he a clown, is he there to amuse you? I assume the humor needs to be intentional?

This reminds me of the movie Singles. Do you want him to say "Bless You" when you sneeze?

Jokes aside, it's not like your "requirements" are really that far fetched, most people want the "max" for what they can get. It doesn't mean that someone else could eventually fill in some of those aspects as you grow with them. The problem is, if you never feel satisfied, you'll always be wondering what if...
 
#54 ·
That's a good thing, narrowing the field, making it easier to recognize someone who does match, not having to spend lots of time figuring it out. That still leaves hundreds of thousands of men to consider just in the USA.

My dating criteria were even more selective (although a little different), and apparently excluded about 99.5% of all women with whom I was in contact. Even so, I found several who were very strong possibilities - but I did have to expand my travel radius to 2 hours. I am very happy with the one I found, and was prepared to spend a lot more time searching if it had been necessary.
 
#50 ·
My wild guess: Could you be applying left-brained criteria to your OLD process and missing encounters with the unexpected? Maybe you need someone who doesn't neatly check all your laundry-list boxes, who surprises you with a combination of in-person chemistry and novel background/perspectives you hadn't considered.

You may be more open to this in a natural RL setting outside the scripted OLD scenario, where everyone is overly conscious of what's at stake from the first swipe or IM, and may view even the most promising prospects on their match list with a jaundiced eye.
 
#58 ·
Prioritize your list. What is the #1 deal breaker? Doesn't make you laugh - next. And so on. Can he be religious if he doesn't shove it down your throat and tell you you'll be going to hell? Can he make 10-20% less if he ...? Can he be an inch shorter and not have a short man syndrome with you?

Your requirements are your requirements and no one has the right to say they are wrong. Just realize that the fewer deal breakers you have, the more candidates that will be available.
 
#60 ·
I will again suggest that the OP, focus on the big picture.

She uses a "2 date or out" "am I 100% into a guy" test. Consider for a moment that most people are very good at communicating without using words. You body language, tone of voice, facial expressions all tell volumes about what you are thinking even if you say little to nothing.

Have you ever considered that maybe the guys you are "2 date testing" know that they are being evaluated? Have you ever considered that maybe that makes them feel uncomfortable?
Have you ever considered that maybe your "2 date test" makes you look clingy which is not sexy in the eyes of your date?

Sure you don't want to waste either your time or some guy's time, but they are "big boys" and some may be willing "invest" some time in getting to know you even if you are a "7" or so. One of the better pieces of advice I got from a sex therapist was that sex is best when it is playful and relaxed, where you can laugh about what doesn't quite go right and realize that each time doesn't have to be perfect. With enough practice the sex will become excellant.
 
#61 · (Edited)
This thread has been an eye opener.

150+ dates!!!!! Holy crap that's a lot! I've always known the Online dating scene was tough but that sounds brutal .

But specifically to your issue...I'm of the mind that you either have 'the spark' with someone or you don't. What exactly constitutes 'the spark'? I have no idea. It's intangible but obvious when felt, so I get what you're saying about wanting that. However, I've also had it hit me out of left field with people that on paper would never caught my interest. Basically what I'm saying is, I agree that you shouldn't waste your time on people who you KNOW would never light your fire but I also agree that you should stick with meeting people in social settings rather than OLD. Meetup is excellent for this.

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#77 ·
This thread has been an eye opener.

150+ dates!!!!! Holy crap that's a lot! I've always known the Online dating scene was tough but that sounds brutal .

But specifically to your issue...I'm of the mind that you either have 'the spark' with someone or you don't. What exactly constitutes 'the spark'? I have no idea. It's intangible but obvious when felt, so I get what you're saying about wanting that. However, I've also had it hit me out of left field with people that on paper would never caught my interest. Basically what I'm saying is, I agree that you shouldn't waste your time on people who you KNOW would never light your fire but I also agree that you should stick with meeting people in social settings rather than OLD. Meetup is excellent for this.

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It actually wasn't that bad at all. But as I said on another thread it all depends on expectations. If I walked into each of those thinking Man I hope this is the last first date I ever have I would have been disappointed 150 times. That would be brutal and most people would give up. Instead I kept those dates to 1 beer and about 30 minutes, absolutely no dinner dates or long dates. My attitude was I was just going to meet someone and it probably won't lead to more than this but hey least the beer is good lol
 
#69 ·
Ok, I really do want some advice here. I previously posted that I texted back and forth with a guy yesterday who meets all my requirements and then some. But there are some problems, too. Here goes:

1. I have two kids; he has zero. So he goes/does what he wants when he wants: go out of town, plays sports, hang out with friends. He told me he will be out of town 5 out of the next 7 weekends. Our schedules conflict so much right now that we can't even find leisurely time for a first time phone call.

2. He's just getting back into the dating scene after many years. His wife passed and he was with his sick wife through it all. Won't share more details, since it's not my story. But he's only had 1 date since. I get the feeling he should/wants to go sow his oats while I'm looking for a real connection.

Our conversation was great, but based on the two items above I've already ruled him out in my mind. Does that make sense or is it because I'm commitment phobic or something? I've got a date tonight with another man, so I'm not putting my eggs in one basket.
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#70 · (Edited)
I don't know if you are commitment phobic, but you have just added two more items to your list of requirements (compatible schedule and recent dating experience), and every item you add decreases your probability of finding someone.

BTW, I told my wife about this thread and she said that you should pick three items on your list to keep and ditch the other ones. One in particular she suggested ditching was your requirements for physical appearance; she said "not repulsive" should be sufficient.

Now let's do some probability estimates:

1. Lives fairly close to me (I don't want to drive more than 1 hour to see them, as I have limited time as it is)
I don't know where you live, but I doubt there could be more than 1 million men within an hour's drive of you, so let's start with that. If that's wrong, adjust for the actual number.
2. Single = 20% of men (200,000)
2. BA = 25% (50,000)
3. Make at least as much money as me (I want an equal) = 50% (25,000)
4. No conservatives/church goers/hunters/NASCAR fans/ = 50% (12,500)
5. Confident = 50% (6250)
6. Taller than me = 75% (4687)
7. Neither fat nor a body builder = 25% (1172)
8. Comfortable with who he is = 100% of confident men, so no problem
9. Not Type-A (I don't want to have to keep up all the time or always be on the go!) = 75% (878)
10. Makes me laugh - this one is really important!!! = 25% (220)

(Added)
11. No children = 25% (55)
12. Age 40-53 = 25% (18)
13. Recent experience dating = 50%? (9)

So according to this calculation, we can estimate that there are perhaps 10 men who meet all these criteria, assuming that they are all independent. Now of course we know that is not quite true (height and income are correlated), but it's probably good enough to calculate a very rough estimate. Let's be generous and assume it's 100 men.

And of course we haven't included the requirement that you have to meet all of the men's requirements too, which would reduce the number quite a bit further.

Conclusion: I don't think you are being realistic.
 
#86 ·
Not sure if this is just my observation, but it seems anyways like some of the men here are implying that women should not be as picky as men when dating…that men can be super picky. No one needs to settle – people should be reasonable, but no one should settle. It’s just an observation I’m picking up on, though. lol :scratchhead:
 
#88 ·
I think if you want a relationship you should ABSOLUTELY be picky. But I would say that meeting or just talking to people should have a lower bar. Because sometimes what you think you want is very different from What you find and fall in love with. Now you can be picky and limit dates. Nothing wrong with it just realize that it will likely take longer to achieve what you want most likely.
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