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post #31 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:12 AM
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Re: Self worth

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I feel the more I give, the more I SHOULD get back in return. When I don't get that back, I get disappointment followed by anger followed by sadness.
So other people's inability to live up to your standards is hurting your self worth? How rational is that?

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post #32 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:15 AM
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Re: Self worth

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I feel the more I give, the more I SHOULD get back in return. When I don't get that back, I get disappointment followed by anger followed by sadness.
A true gift is given without any thought of reward, what you are doing is bartering. it's different.

I think you need to start being honest with yourself about yourself. What you just described is a covert contract. There is nothing wrong with bartering, it is a part of life, but you can't act like it is a sacrifice, like a gift, cause it's not. Instead of hoping that if you do all this work for someone they will respond the same, you need to communicate clear boundaries and expectations. You will have much more success that way. Plus covert contracts are unfair.

Part of weeding out the wrong people in relationships is not settling. Finding a good mate is a lot like when you go the the produce section and look through the oranges. You don't cherish the first orange you find. Part of that is having expectations early and communicating them. People who don't want to live up to those expectations will voluntarily exit. There are a ton of oranges so you shouldn't get your heart set when you find one that superficially meets your needs. Also learn to love the process of finding the right one. Make it about meeting people not (this is my only shot) like lots of people do. It's OK if some people don't work, that's life.

Last edited by sokillme; 10-14-2016 at 09:25 AM.
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post #33 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Self worth

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Unbe, in another thread you talk about smoking weed semi-regularly. I am NOT anti-weed. I smoke it myself from time to time. But one thing that I notice is the different perspectives I see things thru when I have not smoked, when I have smoked and the next day.
When I haven't smoked it is easier for me to place things in perspective, formlate plans and see them thru. I am thinking clearly and concentrating on my thoughts and actions. I focus on my wants and needs
When I smoke I tend to be more critical of myself. I feel I am not living up to the expectations of others. Some of this may come from my perception of society's views on weed in general. Whereby most "successful" people shun it and look down upon those who use it. I think a lot of this comes from my XW. So I guess I tend to think from the perspective of others.
The day after I tend to try to reconcile those two perspectives. I revert back to considering my wants and needs (smoking pot being one of them as it is something I generally enjoy) but at the same time use the perceptions I have gained to drive myself forward.
I guess I am just saying that perhaps you need to smoke less and have more days after to drive yourself forward. Instead of just smoking to smoke, perhaps use it as a reward for achieving something.
I smoke very rarely. Maybe 1-2 a week and just a few puffs. But thank you for your feedback!

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post #34 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 12:08 PM
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Re: Self worth

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I smoke very rarely. Maybe 1-2 a week and just a few puffs. But thank you for your feedback!
You are welcome, I smoke about the same. But even then it may be something to consider. The half life of THC is estimated at 3 to 4 days. So even smoking as little as twice a week, may mean that you still have it in your system all the time. THC can affect your mood and outlook on life. Again just something to consider I am certainly not an expert.

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post #35 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unbe View Post
I feel the more I give, the more I SHOULD get back in return. When I don't get that back, I get disappointment followed by anger followed by sadness.
A true gift is given without any thought of reward, what you are doing is bartering. it's different.

I think you need to start being honest with yourself about yourself. What you just described is a covert contract. There is nothing wrong with bartering, it is a part of life, but you can't act like it is a sacrifice, like a gift, cause it's not. Instead of hoping that if you do all this work for someone they will respond the same, you need to communicate clear boundaries and expectations. You will have much more success that way. Plus covert contracts are unfair.

Part of weeding out the wrong people in relationships is not settling. Finding a good mate is a lot like when you go the the produce section and look through the oranges. You don't cherish the first orange you find. Part of that is having expectations early and communicating them. People who don't want to live up to those expectations will voluntarily exit. There are a ton of oranges so you shouldn't get your heart set when you find one that superficially meets your needs. Also learn to love the process of finding the right one. Make it about meeting people not (this is my only shot) like lots of people do. It's OK if some people don't work, that's life.
Also maybe you should also look at if what you expect from a partner is unreasonable. Maybe you expect/want too much, and no one will ever be able to satisfy you.
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post #36 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 10:38 PM
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Re: Self worth

On the thought of being unreasonable in relationships, or expecting too much .... can you tell us what your "ideal" is or what you are hoping to find ? We all long for "acceptance", for our quirks, the shortcomings we may still be struggling with...able to show ourselves vulnerable with someone & they still love us & want to be with us...and we, them.

I think these are 2 well written articles on "Compatibility".. which can make or break any relationship...doesn't matter how good looking anyone is or how successful.. there are just some things that NEED TO BE ... to get along with another ....that we wholly accept each other's lifestyles, dreams.. sharing a similar vision , whether that be a life traveling together, raising a family, another shared passion...

Love is Not Enough..and Love That Lasts- 11 Questions to Ask Before Marriage

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1. DO you ACCEPT EACH OTHER AS you BOTH ARE?

It is important to accept each other’s faults, flaws, and shortcomings without the need to make changes.

This is a fundamental issue and possibly the most important question here. It reaches into the heart of the relationship and addresses a matter basic for stability and longevity.

2. HAS YOUR COURTSHIP BEEN SMOOTH OR TURBULENT?

Frequent or caustic premarital fights predict turmoil after marriage.

Did you get along well during your time of dating, or did you have many fights and disagreements? A “no” answer to the previous question (Quest. 1) indicates a lack of acceptance of each other’s basic behavioral traits. Your lack of acceptance will show itself in frequent fights and conflict and, thus, as a high level of turbulence in your courtship.

3. DO YOU LIKE THE WAY YOU FEEL ABOUT YOURSELF WHEN YOU ARE WITH YOUR INTENDED?

The way you feel about yourself when in your mate’s company frequently reflects your partner’s underlying, often unstated sentiments.

This is really a variant of the previous questions and has to do with feelings of personal acceptance stemming from the relationship, but at deeper levels.

4. DO you HAVE COMPATIBLE INTERESTS, ATTITUDES, VALUES AND GOALS?

It is important to be in harmony about the things you like to do, the beliefs you hold important, the way you view the world, and your life’s objectives.

These issues are so fundamentally important I could have listed them first. These are also the areas most frequently focused on by dating services. Without a reasonable match in these four areas, we diminish our chances for a long and successful relationship.

5. WHAT SPOUSAL ROLES DO you EXPECT AFTER MARRIAGE?

You need to agree about whether your marriage will be traditional or modern.

In marriage, we play many parts, i.e., partner, parent, companion, provider, homemaker, lover, helpmate, playmate, friend, confidant, and so forth all of which we can be subsume under the heading “spousal roles.” We usually come to a relationship with a certain set of expectations and desires regarding these roles

6. IS your INTENDED SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE AND SATISFYING TO you?

Sexual and affectional compatibility are vital parts of a lasting and satisfying marriage.

For almost everyone, sexual gratification is one of the prime features of marriage. It is important that your needs be met in this area.

7. DO YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WHEN YOU ARE IN THE COMPANY OF YOUR INTENDED’S FAMILY AND FRIENDS?

Be aware that marriage frequently comes with a large cast of loveable, and sometimes not-so-loveable, characters
It is true that you will be marrying your mate and not your mate’s family. Nevertheless, if your intended loves his or her family and plans to spend much time with them, you best like them too, or at least be able to tolerate them.

8. ARE YOU INTERESTED IN THE SATISFACTION OF EACH OTHER’S NEEDS?

Love includes a passionate desire to gratify your loved-one’s needs and desires.

Many people marry with the idea that marriage will satisfy all their requirements. Others believe it is their spouses’ duty to take care of them. In addition, some people are unhappy being single and believe only marriage will make them happy. Imagine the burden all three of these views place on their partners.

9. IS THERE THE FEELING OF SOLID AND ENDURING FRIENDSHIP?

People in satisfying marriages often describe their spouses as their best friend.

Some people have trouble accepting the notion that a person of the opposite sex could be their best friend. Thus, they overlook the possibility of friendship in marriage. However, a good friendship, with its trust, support, and loyalty, is the bedrock of a solid marriage.

10. ARE YOUR PERSONAL AND HOUSEHOLD HYGENIC STANDARDS COMPATIBLE?

Incompatibility in the need for orderliness and cleanliness can seriously undermine an otherwise gratifying partnership.

This is a more important area then many people realize.

11. ARE YOU WILLING TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY, AS FAR AS IS REASONABLE, FOR MAKING THE RELATIONSHIP WORK?

People who recognize that their actions influence their spouses’ behavior are best able to work out marital difficulties.

Choosing the right person is, sadly, not sufficient to produce a happy marriage. You must also be the right person both for your mate as well as for marriage in general.

Last edited by SimplyAmorous; 10-14-2016 at 10:44 PM.
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post #37 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Self worth

On the thought of being unreasonable in relationships, or expecting too much .... can you tell us what your "ideal" is or what you are hoping to find ? We all long for "acceptance", for our quirks, the shortcomings we may still be struggling with...able to show ourselves vulnerable with someone & they still love us & want to be with us...and we, them.


Sure. My Ideal is someone who is willing to go as far as I am willing to go which I realize is impossible because my driving force behind my so called good deads is co-dependency and an attempt to control the situation.

For example:

1- Putting someone else's needs in front of mine in all aspects of life. Example, taking someone on vacation even throu8gh the said no because I want to show them what a good guy I am. Lets not leave out that by doing this Im struggling to pay my own BILLS because I am going away!

2- Always wanting to please someone sexually prior to meeting my own needs. A variation of above.

3- Offering to help when help is not asked for nor even warranted.

Yes, if I don't get this in return I feel like a failure. However, I know expecting this in return is insane.

I know my faults, I know what I need to work on. My question is how do I get there?


As to your list above

1- Yes, we do.
2- Smooth, mainly because Im too afraid to argue and she's too stoned to care.
3- Sometimes. When we are together, yes. During the down times, I feel anxious.
4- Yes we do
5- No discussed, too early.
6- Yes.
7- Yes
8- I am in hers. She seems to be in mine.
9- Its building towards this.
10- Yes.
11- Perhaps too much so but Yes.

"When people show you who they are, believe them!"- RTZ
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post #38 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 04:00 PM
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Re: Self worth

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Im sure this is a common theme amongst these boards. Id like to hear comments on this subject. Tips perhaps...
Recently, turned 40 not too long ago, I've felt I have made some good progress in this area. Basically it comes down to this: I am important because I'm me. There will only ever be one of me. I don't let past mistakes define me. I seek forgiveness for them and then try to do better next time.

A key part of this for me was realizing that I don't need anyone else's approval. Earlier this year I started reading that book "No More Mr. Nice guy" and the quote that hit me was this: "If you did not care what people thought of you, how would you live your life differently?" This was a huge smack in the face for me as up until then I valued myself when other people were pleased with me. The problem was some of the things those people wanted from me were not what I wanted from me. So when I could divorce myself from that cause/effect then I was free to love me for who I am.

I'm still working through it but I have a sense of peace now I didn't have before. Life is still jacked up sometimes but I do what I think is best and if someone else doesn't like it then too bad.
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post #39 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 04:47 PM
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Re: Self worth

I think you're placing far too much emphasis on other people making you happy. You talk about it in the context of a relationship. I think that's backwards. You need to be happy with JUST YOU. Truly happy. Only then will you be able to choose a mate that enhances that happiness. You can never expect to find someone who 'makes you happy' when you have no clue what actually DOES make you happy!

I tell people this ALL THE TIME: figure out what you and you alone can do to be happy. What do you enjoy? What do you like doing alone? What do you think when you look in the mirror? How much time do you spend alone? What do you usually do when you are alone?

Spend some time on self reflection and figure this stuff out, and then you'll be able to find someone to share it all with.
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post #40 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 05:54 PM
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Re: Self worth

"Toxic shame" = Low self-worth.

I highly recommend reading "Healing the Shame That Binds You" by John Bradshaw.
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post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-30-2016, 11:55 PM
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Re: Self worth

Self worth comes from the self. If you are assessing your self worth in any way due to what others say, or your visible success or impact on the world, then you are not dealing with self worth, but other worth.

There's an alternate approach that takes you up a notch spiritually - by that I don't mean religion, I refer to the original meaning of "spiritual" in terms of knowing, deeply, who you are - the intense and thorough knowledge of yourself - which is one of those wonderfully unattainable goals whose value lies in the pursuit, not the achievement of it.

To get a better write-up - in a bit of a "grab yourself by the lapels and shake hard" kind of way, find the website by Michael Edelstein about his book "Three Minute Therapy". He has a link to the book, which is presented in pdfs, chapter by chapter. Read Chapter 3, "self esteem". It provides you with a path for losing all sense of esteem - abandoning the concept of self-worth or self-esteem in its entirety, so that you can focus now on simply doing what you need, in order to realize the results you want, and putting no more thought into worth or esteem again. Nicely, doing it this way levels the whole playing field - if you can get to this state, you will be incapable of judging anybody else ever again.

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post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 06:28 AM
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Re: Self worth

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Ive been told that I expect too much from people. I expect them to give as much as I do. Apparently I give WAY to much
This sounds like the concept of Covert Contracts (I hate to reference Glover but this is one of the few places he was actually on to something) expanded to color your view of all relationships. I can understand how you feel here. You want to keep doing for people because you feel bad if you don't. But when they don't return the consideration you feel...neglected? (is that the right word), which makes you feel like others don't think as much of you as you do of them. Which can also get you down on yourself.

I don't have much good advice, but if you make an effort to stop doing so much for others...that gets easier over time, and you don't feel as bad about it.

Passive aggressive and emotionally unavailable (whatever that means)
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post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 05:53 PM
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Re: Self worth

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This sounds like the concept of Covert Contracts (I hate to reference Glover but this is one of the few places he was actually on to something) expanded to color your view of all relationships. I can understand how you feel here. You want to keep doing for people because you feel bad if you don't. But when they don't return the consideration you feel...neglected? (is that the right word), which makes you feel like others don't think as much of you as you do of them. Which can also get you down on yourself.

I don't have much good advice, but if you make an effort to stop doing so much for others...that gets easier over time, and you don't feel as bad about it.

What you said in blue here... if a struggle for @unbe

There is a book about healthy "Boundaries" that could shed some insight.... Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life

Quote:
Having clear boundaries is essential to a healthy, balanced lifestyle. A boundary is a personal property line that marks those things for which we are responsible. In other words, boundaries define who we are and who we are not. Boundaries impact all areas of our lives:

Physical boundaries help us determine who may touch us and under what circumstances -- Mental boundaries give us the freedom to have our own thoughts and opinions -- Emotional boundaries help us to deal with our own emotions and disengage from the harmful, manipulative emotions of others -- also Spiritual boundaries are discussed...Often we focus so much on being loving and unselfish that we forget our own limits and limitations.

- Can I set limits and still be a loving person?
- What are legitimate boundaries?
- What if someone is upset or hurt by my boundaries?
- How do I answer someone who wants my time, love, energy, or money?
- Aren't boundaries selfish?
- Why do I feel guilty or afraid when I consider setting boundaries?
I read this many yrs ago.. it helped clear my mind in an area I felt I was being taken advantage of, with a friend anyway...I don't know that she realized it.. but I did address it.. sure beats starting to feel resentment, or bad about myself for not "doing doing doing", but laying my boundary line... it all worked out.. still good friends today...
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post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-09-2016, 09:35 PM
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Re: Self worth

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I never said they weren't crazy, most of them are! I just said they are attractive. Any by attractive I mean 10s...All my friends always wonder how its possible.

It started when I was young. Went away for a while but came back during my last marriage.

I don't really need a reason for the feeling, more need a way to stop feeling this way
You judge by physical appearance. Date 10s. Then question your self worth. Turn the mirror around. The answer is staring at you. You value that and fear others won't like what's behind it. Fix that.
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post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-11-2016, 03:22 AM
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part of your issue is your expectations. You can't control other reactions based on what you do for them. When you give you need to give from your heart and truly expect nothing in return.

People think that getting into a relation will make up happy. WRONG!!

I scrolled through the post but didn't read every comment but there seems to be this theme with you that you expect things from people. If you set these type of expectations up in your mind you will be disappointed constantly.
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