This is the crux of the problem with your wife. Until she feels like she is emotionally safe in the relationship, things will not get better.
What I mean by that is this - your wife has certain needs that she obviously feels you are not meeting. She has a responsibility to figure out what needs SHE needs to be meeting for herself and which needs are reasonable for her to expect you to meet.
Please pay attention to what your wife has told you about your past unwillingness to acknowledge or apologize for things you have done to hurt her. This has a HUGE negative impact on a marriage.
One of the big issues is she has not been openly sharing her needs with me. As I mentioned, she has somewhat overwhelming parents and a lot of siblings so she never had a very clear "voice" growing up. She tends to just go along with what others want to do. I'm not really sure she even knows what some of her needs are.
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Originally Posted by Laurae1967
See, now this seems like really scary thinking. So you only give her an apology if she will forgive you? So unless you get forgiveness you are not sorry for hurting her? I don't get it.
To clarify, this is not something I have done just a thought that I had. I guess it was mainly based on some of the, "only give what you get" thinking. I am truly sorry for hurting her. It's not about me not being sorry unless I get forgiveness it's about me doing my part to try and heal the marriage and her not doing her part.
But, it's probably not a great idea. Thanks for the heads up.
I think the opposite. In that I think it very wise to let her share her resentments with you. These things really do need to be in the open and cleared up wherever possible. If they are not cleared up they eventually kill the marriage simply because while they are there love cannot blossom and grow. In fact love very much takes a back seat in the marriage.
It did seem to have a healing affect for her. Overall I'm not sure she really wants to have a whole list of things to throw at me. I think if we can get to the point where she feels safe and cared for she will let the past go. One big questions would be whether she can get there on her own, as in the marriage is on hold and I back off until she feels safe, or I try to be involved and work through this stuff with her.
Just for a moment flip positions with her you are now the one who feels betrayed...
She comes up to you and says...
1. You need to be more open
2. You need to love me
3. You need to respect me
How would you respond?Defensively? Sure.
Now communication is a necessity in many cases but any ultimatums are going to fall on deaf each and every time.
I think you need to learn communication 101
That's what you got... she heard you stop talking
Acting a certain way says a lot more than any words.
Watch EVERYTHING you say...it can and WILL be used agianst you.
Say little be direct and to he point then LISTEN!
Keep that foot out of your mouth.
It's quite possible that I screwed this up but I was just trying some of the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" ideas. I have some boundaries/expectations for this relationship. I explained them in a calm reasonable way. To me they all seemed like very reasonable expectations, but were things that were being pushed to the back burner.
I want us to get to the point where we are both clearly communicating our needs. I think we have missed opportunities to meet each others needs, not so much because we didn't want to, but just because we were unaware of that particular need.
Also, I disagree with the "Can and will be used against you" line. This is a relationship not a court of law. Trust is paramount.
Why would you disagree with that statement? She's using things you said 8 years ago as justification to treat you like a dog. At this point I'd be scared to tell her anything from fear I might hurt her tender feelings.
Are the majority of her problems with you over past disagreements or were you a cheating, mean drunk, drug user, ect and haven't disclosed that to us?
at some point grown ups learn to get over things and move on. If all she wants is for you to be sensitive to her without the same forethought for you, maybe you'd be better off doing anything other than hanging around waitin for her to change her mind about you.
From my own experience I've learned that some people think that marriage means you get to use the other person as your own personal punching bag with no thought of their feelings.
I'd set a time limit for things to turn around, tell her about it or don't. At the end of that time if things have not improved be ready to leave or keep putting up with it. Your choice. Posted via Mobile Device
It's quite possible that I screwed this up but I was just trying some of the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" ideas. I have some boundaries/expectations for this relationship. I explained them in a calm reasonable way. To me they all seemed like very reasonable expectations, but were things that were being pushed to the back burner.
I want us to get to the point where we are both clearly communicating our needs. I think we have missed opportunities to meet each others needs, not so much because we didn't want to, but just because we were unaware of that particular need.
Also, I disagree with the "Can and will be used against you" line. This is a relationship not a court of law. Trust is paramount.
It's a Long process Balance!
It's a lot of NOT TALKING and a lot of DOING for a very long time.
I finally have gotten to the point where my wife is willing to have a two-way one hour uninterrupted discussion about us and where we are going. It will happen this weekend and every first weekend of each month. We will be discussing sex and all other aspects of our marriage together. She will be a participant in a two-way mutual discussion aimed at finding common ground and a resolution to our now "sexless" marriage. She will do most of the talking.
Prior to this it was me saying "We need to talk" every six months or so.... Now EVERY month we will have a scheduled discussion until we solve all of our issues together.
That took TWO YEARS of constant effort with zero reward or feedback from her... because I put in the time and was patient just now am I reaping the rewards of those efforts.
I want us to get to the point where we are both clearly communicating our needs. I think we have missed opportunities to meet each others needs, not so much because we didn't want to, but just because we were unaware of that particular need.
Honestly, though I know you're in a tough spot right now, I think you are in a really good position. You're coming to a realization about your wife's needs before it sounds like there's something else under the table (ie another guy).
You're getting to the ROOT of your wife's unhappiness, so you have to expect that there's going to be pain there. The important thing is that you're both being honest and real. That's important because now you know what you need to work on and how to make her happy. It's not going to change overnight, and you can't expect that she's going to flip a switch and become superwife, but you're at least on the road now and pointed in the right direction.
I think a good way to proceed is to be loving and respectful of what she's said and make genuine efforts to work on the things she's listed. Show some remorse not just with words but with actions. But also, spend some time on yourself. Get buff, find some hobbies outside of her, hang out with friends, do man stuff. Let her know that you are an attractive guy who's worth being with, but that you're awesome enough to be a good husband to her out of choice.
I would add though that I would think it would be prudent to start being suspicious of her activities. If you get a feeling in your gut that something isn't right, it probably isn't. If she starts getting protective of her phone or emails, starts doing the girls night out thing more often, starts dressing more provocatively, etc. You may want to run low-grade snooping, some checking of her phone records, texts, emails, etc. If you see some other guy popping into the picture, be on alert. Your wife is vulnerable right now.
From what you mentioned I wouldn't think there's another guy yet, but she's certainly very close to being open to it. Not being able to say she loves you is pretty good evidence of that.
Pretty low today. Can't seem to shake the dark cloud. I've read books and forums, I've talked with friends and family, I've met with counselors and pastors. Everybody has an opinion on what I should do. A hundred different ways to "fix" the problem.
Frankly I'm tired.
I'm open to personal growth but at some point my wife just has to love me for who I am. She clearly doesn't.
Not sure I can do it anymore.
I know, I'm supposed to be up-beat and positive so that she is attracted to me and I'm supposed to do this and do that. But I can't today. Today it's just the real me, hurt and broken. Take it or leave it.
Pretty low today. Can't seem to shake the dark cloud. I've read books and forums, I've talked with friends and family, I've met with counselors and pastors. Everybody has an opinion on what I should do. A hundred different ways to "fix" the problem.
Frankly I'm tired.
I'm open to personal growth but at some point my wife just has to love me for who I am. She clearly doesn't.
Not sure I can do it anymore.
I know, I'm supposed to be up-beat and positive so that she is attracted to me and I'm supposed to do this and do that. But I can't today. Today it's just the real me, hurt and broken. Take it or leave it.
That's the HARD part. You're going to have a lot of days like that. In fact, that's going to be your attitude most of the time. What's going to push you through is knowing that you WANT to be married. If you WANT to make it work, you're going to have to start working to what she needs. Not sure if it helps but she probably feels the same way, maybe even more so. She doesn't want to meet your needs right now either, especially if she's feeling like you've neglected her for a long time.
Marriage is tough, and this is why. Because you constantly have to put your desires and wants behind another person's. Yes you can expect your wife to love you unconditionally, but it's going to be a ****ty marriage if both partners aren't working to meet their partner's needs.
If you decide it's not worth it, that's the decision you make, but I'd be willing to bet you'll have the same problem in your future relationships.
I'm open to personal growth but at some point my wife just has to love me for who I am. She clearly doesn't.
Yeah, it sucks and it can be a huge blow to your self esteem to have your spouse say they don't love who you are as a person. Hang in there, one way or another, you will find your direction.
My husband is in a similar situation.
From my point of view... after you "talk" to someone several times about behavior that hurts you or isn't respectful, I started to think, well, that's just the way he is. And then it becomes, well, if that's who he is as a person, then I don't want to be with him. Does that make sense?
And that's all you need to do. Not change who you are, but behave in a way that you are supportive to her needs, so that she is able to meet your needs. How do you that? By listening. By thinking about how you acted with each other when you were dating.
It's too late at this point to say "what about my needs".
Ever have a friend that constantly stood you up, borrowed money or gossiped about you, caused trouble? Eventually, you may have stopped being friends with them. Marriage is not always unconditional love.
Yeah, it sucks and it can be a huge blow to your self esteem to have your spouse say they don't love who you are as a person. Hang in there, one way or another, you will find your direction.
My husband is in a similar situation.
From my point of view... after you "talk" to someone several times about behavior that hurts you or isn't respectful, I started to think, well, that's just the way he is. And then it becomes, well, if that's who he is as a person, then I don't want to be with him. Does that make sense?
And that's all you need to do. Not change who you are, but behave in a way that you are supportive to her needs, so that she is able to meet your needs. How do you that? By listening. By thinking about how you acted with each other when you were dating.
It's too late at this point to say "what about my needs".
Ever have a friend that constantly stood you up, borrowed money or gossiped about you, caused trouble? Eventually, you may have stopped being friends with them. Marriage is not always unconditional love.
Marriage SHOULD be different. You are not just a friend.... you are a spouse.
It's crazy when a wife shuts down sexually/emotionally for no good reason.
What on earth did your spouse do to you ????? To shut down on him and make him live in a virtual sham of a marriage? Short of physical abuse, verbal abuse, cheating or chronic addictions..... there is no good reason to shut down. That is a dishonoring your vow. Just leave him if it hurts so much do him a favor. Frankly if you shut down then leave. Or are you into he vindictive stage?
Marriage vow..."To have and to hold" have you honored that?
Marriage SHOULD be different. You are not friend you are spouses.
It's crazy when a wife shuts down sexually for no good reason.
What on earth did your spouse do to you ????? To shut down on him and make him live in a virtual sham of a marriage?
Good reasons. For me.
Listened to what I asked for. Ignored it. Kept doing what I asked him not to. I got mad. Lied and hid the behavior instead.
Did not put me first.
Date night. Gets a call from beer buddy, forgets we have plans. Comes home half swacked 3 hrs late from work. Anniversay weekend away. Gets drunk both nights and leaves me in the hotel room alone because I refused to go the bar. Too hungover the next day to do anything with me.
Tells me he will quit drinking. Reality... just starts leaving work early to go the bar and get home at usual time. Got caught both times. Thinks I'm stupid, I guess.
Too tired to have sex. Shower jobs every morning. I get nothing. My timing is always wrong, or he is depressed. He hates his job, I'm too demanding. Why can't I just give him bj everyday instead? Goes to a bar, gets a bj from his ex gf instead. I find out from his friend. I make plans to move out.
Says there is nothing wrong. Loves me to death. Please don't leave.
Made plans with his buddies for Friday, Saturday. Gets bored on Sunday, looking around for me. I'm not there. Go figure.
Has a general attitude that no matter what he does, as long as he says I'm sorry, things should all good. I try for the 4th time to say what my needs are. He says "don't ask me to change". So I don't. I accept you the way you are. And you don't deserve me. If it's that important to you to be that selfish, have a nice life.
I did fight pretty hard for the need vs. desire. In the end she just said, "I hear what you area saying, you think it is a need," But of course she doesn't really acknowledge that it is so I still feel unheard.
She did say that it isn't a sex drive thing for her. She has told me in the past that she "takes care of herself" a couple times a week. So really our need for sex is about the same. She just doesn't want it with me.
Men want sex, but need a deep emotional connection to properly love their wives. We get that deep emotional connection from sex.
Actually, men need sex from wives who enjoy having sex with them to fully commit to the relationship.
Actually, it doesnt matter whether its a want or need. It doesnt matter if your wife takes the stance that your view on the matter is "need" and her reality is "want".
All that matters is how you feel on the subject. If you want sex 2-3x per week, and she doesnt, you have to think about whether you really want/need it that much and what your going to do if she doesnt anty up. Just make sure you're willing to compromise on the subject, dont go "my way or the highway" approach. That isnt manned up, thats being a jerk.
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Originally Posted by BALANCE
If we both have needs that contradict each other how do we compromise if neither one of us wants to back down. Shouldn't there be some sacrifice in a relationship?
If neither of you i willing to back down or give in, then divorce or slowly allowing pain and resntment to build up, which will equal future divorce are your only two options... although, if you never read the NMMNG book, Id offer you a 3rd option: Be your wifes ***** and live in self-pity until the day you (or she) dies.
There have to be sacrifices in marriage as few people, if any, are so similar in their wants/needs. But you have shown your not willing to sacrifice, so you can expect the same from her.
Re: My Basic Expectations 
