BALANCE

Some of you may already know a little about my situation but here is a brief recap.

Married 13 years we have 3 kids (9,5,2). Eight years ago I would have said we had a pretty good marriage. Five years ago we started MC and did that for a year and a half. Mostly during that time he worked on helping me "Man Up," although he did not use that termanology. After that time the MC seemed to think we were doing pretty good and drastically lessened the number of sessions. Things eventually started going south again.

My wife seems openly resentful and bitter. She has said that she is emotionally separated from me. In June she asked that we take a break from sex to give her space to process all the pain from the past (no one major thing just a bunch of stuff from the past ie. "you said this 8 years ago). Eventually we started up with a new MC. After about 5 months we stopped going.

So here we are.

I've been reading the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and decided to lay out some of my expectations for the relationship. I tried my best to explain that these were things we needed to get to and may not be something that we can jump right into. So, here were my basic expectations.

1. I expect her to share her needs with me openly and honestly.

2. Our relationship has to be a priority. We need to make efforts to heal, reconnect and move forward. This included spending more time together, and generally making it more of an urgent need.

3. Respect. This included some specifics about not lying to me, not mocking me in public and not devaluing my ideas and needs (I can't tell you how many times she has rolled her eyes at me and told me nobody cared about xyz).

4. Love. This included telling each other that we love each other and show love through physical affection. I did tell her that I need sex 2-3 times a week but realize we can't just jump right into that so I could negotiate the amount of times, but it did need to happen.

Her response:
1. Wanted to make sure I knew that making the relationship a priority was also my responsibility.

2. Although I was asking her to stop she wanted me to know that I spent a lot of time "teasing" and making fun of her early on in our marriage.

3. She does not want to say "I love you" and I need to understand that the relationship doesn't have to have that. She does not want to have sex and at most she could see us doing it once a month. She asked that if these were none negotiable than she would like to talk to the MC before giving a "real" answer. She also said that my "need" to have sex was not a real need but more of a desire.

I did start off this conversation stating that I was sorry about the pain that I have caused her. And that I have made some major changes to myself and that I want to do better at meeting her needs. I want us both to openly share our needs so that we can willingly, lovingly care for each others needs.

By the end she shared a number of times where I hurt her and she did not feel like I acknowledged it or did not apologize for it. I apologized for those things and told her I was glad she could share them with me. She also told me that the level of tenderness in the relationship was so far below what she needed that she didn't see how I could ever meet her need there.

Anyway, things are tense. I'm starting to think I must be an awful person. I didn't want to hurt her in some cases I didn't even realize I was hurting her. But, I have clearly caused unrepairable damage.

Sorry for the rant. Not even sure I have any questions really. Just not sure what to do. Do you think I totally screwed that interaction up? Was that the wrong approach? Am I missing something or isn't telling each other you love them a basic component to a marriage relationship?

DanF

Although I believe that your post is as honest as possible, it is only half of the conversation and being presented by one side.

But, it sounds to me like she is not willing to make any changes while expecting you to do all the work.
If she can't say, "I love you" then she must not love you. I don't know if you can expect anything from her...

Catherine602

B - this is wonderful not bad. She is telling you exactly what you wanted to know, what happened to our love.

You acknowledge that there were things that you did that hurt her but you were unaware. Why did she not tell you at the time would be a good follow up question? Instead she hung onto the hurt and retaliated inappropriately. So it is not just you but both of you. Don't take on all of the blame, she has to acknowledge her part. If you can both do that then you can move forward.

It is obvious that you love her, if she only knew how fortunate she is to have a husband who cares about her feelings. One important thing is that you may be giving too much - give only as much as you get. That is important, if you are taking on all of the blame and making all of the effort to right things you send the wrong message. She is more important than you and she does not have to work to make you happy.

Cool way down. Be more independant, make sure you look good, find some activity that is independant of her. Give her room to come to you, stop persueing her so much. I think you have an excellent begining here. And no you are not a terrible person. We are none of us mind readers, it is impossible to predict what action or word will hurt or annoy your partner. Honest comm is the only way. You are doing some of that now so keep it up.
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KanDo

This is not a marriage worth having

uphillbattle

Wow, so she expects the world from you for her needs but your needs are just desires? You should "desire" to tell her that it is only neotiable to a point. Don't give in anymore than you feel that you can be happy with. If she sees sex as a desire then treat her need for tenderness as the same. Don't be a push over.

__________________
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."ALBERT EINSTEIN

BALANCE

Thank you for the encouragement. On paper things seem pretty good. And at times I feel like we really click.

I am scared about "cooling down," I always feel so alone when I do that. She never seems to want to pursue me and I just get ignored. I feel even more rejected.

I have lost some weight and started a new hobby. And I started meeting with friends for lunch. Maybe those things will fill the void.

jayde

Yep - I was thinking the same thing - she needs to claim some responsibility in this. The 'poor me, poor me you big bad guy' needs to stop.

In one extreme, this could also be rewriting your history. She has resentments (or something) and needs to blame someone other than herself . . . and that would be you. And if you buy into it, she can rewrite in her mind anything to make you the bad guy. In my marriage I've run around chasing my tail so long to set things right . . . and she would make sure that they can never be right.

It sounds like she's lucky to have you - you seem so willing to work to make things better. I hope she realizes this soon. Good luck!

BALANCE

I did fight pretty hard for the need vs. desire. In the end she just said, "I hear what you area saying, you think it is a need," But of course she doesn't really acknowledge that it is so I still feel unheard.

She did say that it isn't a sex drive thing for her. She has told me in the past that she "takes care of herself" a couple times a week. So really our need for sex is about the same. She just doesn't want it with me.

If we both have needs that contradict each other how do we compromise if neither one of us wants to back down. Shouldn't there be some sacrifice in a relationship?

BALANCE

I have heard the term "rewriting your history" but had forgotten about that. It does feel that way, but I feel so uncertain of things that I'd just like to apologies and move on. If thats all it takes, it's a small price.

Here is an example she shared with me:

Eight years ago we returned to the US after living overseas. I was afraid that her, somewhat, controlling parents would overwhelm us. So I mentioned having some boundaries. I threw out a number of going to seeing her parents (who live 4 1/2 hours away) around two times a year. She did not like that idea and eventually we dropped it. We have generally seen them once a month. But she says just that I would suggest that changed how she viewed me and she has never fully forgiven me for suggesting such a thing.

Tall Average Guy

You also need to make sure that she does not use this as an excuse to treat you poorly. She does not get to disrespect you in public because you were mean to her a while back. For it to work, both of you need to be respectful to the other.

jayde

BALANCE

I see what you're saying.

I did tell her that I would not re-apologies for things in the past that I felt had already been delt with. I also tried to be very specific with the apologies, i.e. "I'm sorry I hurt you when I asked that we see your parents two times a year." As apposed to, "I'm sorry I kept you from seeing your parents." Which is more along the lines of what she wanted to hear.

AFEH

Sounds to me like your wife is embittered about things from the past and is persecuting you for them. I’ve come to see embitterment as quite natural but at the same time I think the embittered person has some sort of duty to get rid of their bitterness, most especially if they are staying in the marriage and take what their partner does for them. And that this is best done through forgiveness and wisdom.

At the same time it needs active participation from the “offender”. In that the offender must make their apologies in a way the embittered person can accept. But unfortunately in these things great big walls of invulnerability have been built to prevent any possible further hurt, pain.

And to get these walls to start coming down needs a third party to help the couple by showing them the way. I can only believe it is an exceedingly delicate process liable to go “wrong” at any time and that’s why it needs a very experienced counsellor.

So that would be my first recommendation, seek out a counsellor/psychologist who is experienced in removing embitterment from your marriage. I feel pretty certain that when a couple goes through such a process they come out the other side with a much deeper understanding, appreciation and love for one another.


There is something you can do to protect yourself from your wife’s persecution of you and that’s by the way of boundaries. These are boundaries of intolerance. You quite simply tell your wife what you will not tolerate in a very calm, cool and collected manner. And when she goes through your boundaries again, which she will do, you just calmly repeat your boundary to her. Take a look at Boundaries for Men. Personal boundaries are a life skill. It can take a while to become proficient in their application The Four Stages of Competence

ren

This sounds really weird to me. She is upset at you for 8 years because you didn't want to visit her family as often as she wanted?! Why do you think this incident bothered her so much?

Does she get angry when you leave the toilet seat up?

BALANCE

No, she's pretty low maintenance most of the time. Doesn't really nit-pick little stuff like that.

I can see how it was hurtful for her. It probably felt like a rejection of her family and maybe, by extension, her. She does have very high expectations of what a husband is supposed to be like. She has said before that she expected me to be like a son to her parents. And, for the most part we do get along. I don't have any real animosity towards her parents I just wanted to set up some boundaries, but that was unacceptable. I would say we see her parents about as much as all the other siblings in the family.