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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

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Sex is the first thing to go when depressed. Here...

Depression: How to Help When Friends or Family are Depressed - Wing of Madness Depression GuideWing of Madness Depression Guide

Whatever you do don't shame or bully her into it. It's best to show concern. Read the article and links, you'll get the idea. Call her MD for advice too.
Thank you for these links, greatly appreciated.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 08:09 PM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

You're welcome.

Remember it's not your fault. It's not personal.

Take care of yourself too.


Best

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." T.R.

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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 08:31 PM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

My take is she is having some mental issues (anxiety probably making her depressed as well). I would hold off on the sex (sorry) until that is under control. SHe is probably feeling very low self esteem and that is why she is say maybe you shouldn't be together. She is embarrassed that she is not 100% the wife she wants to be for you, but it may not be in her control. Perhaps you could tell her that you are worried that she is needing to go to bed at 6 to get her thoughts straight and that in general she doesn't seem happy. Make it clear that it is very important to you that she go and get help for herself because you need her and love her and that you will support her through whatever it is that she is going through. I think on top of her anxiety/depression, the thought of losing you bc of it is crippling her and possibly stopping her from getting help.

"You will always be too much of something for someone: too big, too loud, too soft, too edgy. If you round out your edges, you lose your edge. Apologize for mistakes. Apologize for unintentionally hurting someone--profusely. But don't apologize for being who you are."
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 08:54 PM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

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Originally Posted by Mac48 View Post
She was put on a medication to help with vaginal lubrication but it did not seem to help.


So what is the doctor doing next?

Where is the pain? On entry?

Are you "big" meaning wide or long?
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

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My take is she is having some mental issues (anxiety probably making her depressed as well). I would hold off on the sex (sorry) until that is under control. SHe is probably feeling very low self esteem and that is why she is say maybe you shouldn't be together. She is embarrassed that she is not 100% the wife she wants to be for you, but it may not be in her control. Perhaps you could tell her that you are worried that she is needing to go to bed at 6 to get her thoughts straight and that in general she doesn't seem happy. Make it clear that it is very important to you that she go and get help for herself because you need her and love her and that you will support her through whatever it is that she is going through. I think on top of her anxiety/depression, the thought of losing you bc of it is crippling her and possibly stopping her from getting help.
Thank you for this insight, gives me a whole new way of looking at all of this.
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

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So what is the doctor doing next?

Where is the pain? On entry?

Are you "big" meaning wide or long?
She won't go back unfortunately... The pain seems to be right after entry in most cases. I am above average in length but normal in width. I've tried "not going in all the way" but it doesn't really help.
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 10:41 PM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

Upsetting her should be the least of your worries. This sexlessness is not sustainable and the sooner you make it crystal clear that it's a deal breaker the sooner she'll **** or get off the pot. Seriously. Not sustainable. And you're not doing her any favors making her think it's ok...eventually you'll blind side her and that'll be even worse. All because you're afraid to hurt her feelings.

And for God sake don't get her pregnant. Marrying a virgin over 20. Never a good idea. She was a virgin because she didn't want sex. That doesn't change.
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 11:52 PM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

Since you were not having intercourse earlier, I assume she was not on birth control. BC can cause all sorts of mood changes in some women

Something to consider: Stop the BC. Go back to the sex life you had before that you both enjoyed.

If that works, then consider different birth control, condoms etc.


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Originally Posted by Mac48 View Post
No, we actually had way more fun with each other before we got married. We basically did all of the above, minus penetration. (I tell everyone I know now, HAVE SEX before marriage if you haven't, stupid to wait). She has always been a little moody, but never "dark" like she is now.

She is on a birth control, yes.
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 01:00 AM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

Forget about the sex for the moment and help her get to the root of her depression. Ask her to tell you about her nightmares, "worst case scenarios", etc. Ask her if she worries that you'd leave? You have to find a way to communicate with her and get her to confide in you, to trust you enough to open up. Do you have meaningful conversations or is it just work, go home, and sleep? Do you go out on dates? Cuddle?
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 07:41 AM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

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Upsetting her should be the least of your worries. This sexlessness is not sustainable and the sooner you make it crystal clear that it's a deal breaker the sooner she'll **** or get off the pot. Seriously. Not sustainable. And you're not doing her any favors making her think it's ok...eventually you'll blind side her and that'll be even worse. All because you're afraid to hurt her feelings.

And for God sake don't get her pregnant. Marrying a virgin over 20. Never a good idea. She was a virgin because she didn't want sex. That doesn't change.
His wife is possibly going through anxiety and/or depression. I don't think this hard stance at this time is the right way to proceed. Have some compassion. He can try to help his wife get better first and then they can work on the sex issues. It would be nearly impossible to have any success on this until she is well and he should focus on supporting her to get help. You are making a huge assumption saying she was a virgin because she didn't want sex. He was also a virgin. She is having pain with sex and therefore not wanting or enjoying it. I'm sure that is causing her low self esteem and anxiety as well. I have to imagine it must be devastating to wait so long to have sex and find out it is not what you expected and not be able to be the wife you want to be for your husband. I hope they can work through this but making it crystal clear that this is a deal breaker is just cruel at this stage.

"You will always be too much of something for someone: too big, too loud, too soft, too edgy. If you round out your edges, you lose your edge. Apologize for mistakes. Apologize for unintentionally hurting someone--profusely. But don't apologize for being who you are."
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 10:31 AM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

It's all connected to her inability to enjoy sex.

Assuming she was raised in an environment that shamed premarital sexuality, this caused her to think marriage would magically make sex fantastic. What she has is called vaginismus and it is treatable. She has muscle spasm in and around her vagina, triggered by penetration. If she can insert a tampon comfortably, she can use a special set of vaginal dilators to slowly teach those muscles to relax. However, her shame about not being sexually active combined with her shame about sexuality in general cause her to totally avoid following through.

-She got married and sex didn't work, she felt ashamed and broken.
-She went to a doctor and had to describe the problem, she felt ashamed and broken
-She was advised to use a set of vaginal dilators and reminded to use lubrication both during sex and during physical therapy for her pelvic musculature dysfunction. This overwhelmed her and so she avoided following through. She felt ashamed and broken, but now she felt hopeless.
-Enter the depression.

Depression can be brought on by life events and I think your wife's depression may be heavily influenced by her disappointment in herself for not being normal, sexually. I think the birth control, assuming that it is an hormonal oral contraceptive, also plays a role in her depression.

Your wife needs a therapist who can also help her deal with her sexual dysfunction.

Right now she is resistant to go for any help because she is ashamed and feels it is hopeless. You are her husband and you have more power than you know. You're going to have to make a bunch of calls and find a therapist, and make an appointment. Go together with your wife. Let her see this is a problem you won't abandon her for. Let her see you are on her team and even though right now she doesn't think anything will help, your confidence that this will help, will help her ease into therapy.

Sexual dysfunction involving pelvic muscle spasms are more common that most young women know. They can be cured. Yes cured. But the hard part is actually taking off her clothing, lubing up a dilator, and inserting it into her vagina every day. This is an overwhelming task for someone who thinks she is broken and can't be fixed, and is also depressed. You're going to have to take the lead and gently ease her into being more confident and hopeful.

Coconut oil! Buy a big jar today!

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry


"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 10:42 AM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

I heartily second everything that @Anon Pink says in her post, and agree with everything she says. Be as supportive and loving and optimistic as you can be, as the two of you work through this together. She needs you right now, and she needs to know that you won't leave her. That will help her tremendously, I think.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
It's all connected to her inability to enjoy sex.

Assuming she was raised in an environment that shamed premarital sexuality, this caused her to think marriage would magically make sex fantastic. What she has is called vaginismus and it is treatable. She has muscle spasm in and around her vagina, triggered by penetration. If she can insert a tampon comfortably, she can use a special set of vaginal dilators to slowly teach those muscles to relax. However, her shame about not being sexually active combined with her shame about sexuality in general cause her to totally avoid following through.

-She got married and sex didn't work, she felt ashamed and broken.
-She went to a doctor and had to describe the problem, she felt ashamed and broken
-She was advised to use a set of vaginal dilators and reminded to use lubrication both during sex and during physical therapy for her pelvic musculature dysfunction. This overwhelmed her and so she avoided following through. She felt ashamed and broken, but now she felt hopeless.
-Enter the depression.

Depression can be brought on by life events and I think your wife's depression may be heavily influenced by her disappointment in herself for not being normal, sexually. I think the birth control, assuming that it is an hormonal oral contraceptive, also plays a role in her depression.

Your wife needs a therapist who can also help her deal with her sexual dysfunction.

Right now she is resistant to go for any help because she is ashamed and feels it is hopeless. You are her husband and you have more power than you know. You're going to have to make a bunch of calls and find a therapist, and make an appointment. Go together with your wife. Let her see this is a problem you won't abandon her for. Let her see you are on her team and even though right now she doesn't think anything will help, your confidence that this will help, will help her ease into therapy.

Sexual dysfunction involving pelvic muscle spasms are more common that most young women know. They can be cured. Yes cured. But the hard part is actually taking off her clothing, lubing up a dilator, and inserting it into her vagina every day. This is an overwhelming task for someone who thinks she is broken and can't be fixed, and is also depressed. You're going to have to take the lead and gently ease her into being more confident and hopeful.

Coconut oil! Buy a big jar today!
Thank you SO much for this post Anon Pink, I really appreciate the insight.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 12:54 PM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

Not to sound heartless (but I will):

"There isn't a way and maybe you shouldn't be married to me"

"Best advice on getting her to try talking to a doc if she has refused thus far?"

My advice is saying "yeah, I shouldn't be married to you." Refusing to address this (the psychological problems, not the physical one) is on her and there will be nothing you can do unless you put your foot down. Does it sound cruel? Yes. But she isn't going to get better without professional help and you will be back here in another year wondering what to do.
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 09:45 AM
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Re: Need Advice: Sex & Emotions

@Mac48

I don't know if you're still logging in to TAM but if you are I forgot to mention the most important thing in treating vaginismus. Education! It is vital that she understand that what is happening to her is not because she is frigid. She needs to believe that what she has, vaginismus, is an involuntary condition that absolutely can be successfully treated.

There are web sites that explain vaginismus and there are products you can buy, lubricants and dilator, there are even "programs" you can buy that offer books, dvds, and a set of dilators. While there are all great, she needs to see a physical therapist who specializes in Women's Pelvic Floor Dysfunction.

I had a pelvic floor dysfunction that caused such pain It left me bedridden for the whole day. I had to lay in bed on my left side to ease the pain. It was misdiagnosed by my Primary Care doc, who sent my to a gastroenterologist, who sent me to a urologist until someone told me I should try this GYN who speciliazed in pelvic floor problems. She put me on estrogen cream, which didn't help at all. Then someone else, a PT student, said I should see a PT specialist. I found one, waited two months for an opening and went.

My first appointment she took my history, which took a while to get through since I'm in my 50's. Then I took off my clothes and she pressed around my vulva area asking me to contract various muscles. Then she inserted her finger in my vagina and pressed up, pressed down, pressed to the right and then the left. She isolated the specific muscle groups that were spasming. It was slightly painful during the exam and afterwards I was back in bed on my left side because the pain built. She gave me a very slender wand and taught me how to insert it, where to push it and what I should do while it was inside. I was to do this every day except if I was in pain, however I was to expect a little pain while pressing on the internal muscles. It took a week before I noticed improvement. But once I noticed improvement, the improvement progressed and within 2 months I no longer had pain regularly.

I have to admit, that had I developed this condition in my younger days I would have completely ignored it. I would never have sought treatment because I also had a strong case of sexual inhibition and there was no way I would have ever discussed my lack of sexual response with any doctor, or person.

So for a young woman who was raised to avoid sexual contact until married, that inhibition doesn't just go away once married. To avoid sexual contact a woman has to shut down her sexual responses. She has to teach herself that sexual arousal means she is in danger of unwanted sexual contact. Unwanted because she has been taught to protect her virginity until marriage. This doesn't happen to men, or doesn't generally cause them to be unable to have an erection. When a man is aroused his penis reacts on its own. Testosterone is a very strong hormone that over rides inhibition. Women don't have testosterone, not at the levels men do, so our sexual arousal is very closely linked to our emotional state. Anxiety and depression are an emotional state that enable us to inhibit our sexual responses. A wedding ring does not over ride inhibition.

Your wife has to understand all that I just wrote. She has to understand that her inability to have penetrative sex is INVOLUNTARY. She has to believe that she can be cured of this pain. She has to not feel ashamed. She has to not feel broken, not feel frigid. She has to WANT to be cured.

I suggest you both, together, read the info found here because I found it to be very reassuring and informative: https://www.vaginismus.com/. However, would urge your wife not to use the treatment plan offered for sale until she has actually had an appointment with a physical therapist or specializes in women's pelvic floor dysfunction. Depending on your insurance, it may be most cost effective to purchase this treatment plan. But the PT specialist is best because the PT can guide your wife through the entire process. I had 4 weekly appointments then had 2 follow up appointments 2 weeks apart. Each appointment cost $40 co-pay. This treatment at the website above, which is a good one, costs $90. Going to a PT is best and having a sexually healthy wife is priceless.

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry


"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
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