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post #106 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 09:10 PM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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Originally Posted by TheTruthHurts View Post
Idk good luck. I think a lot of girls who are out getting their freak on assuming they'll find a nice engineer to settle down with later will be sorely disappointed when their past and character rules this possibility out.
I totally respect your opinion. But who do you think nice engineers (male or female) who are also ****ty freaks want to marry? Why, other ****ty freaks, of course.

Shared sexual values and compatibility are IMPORTANT, for sure, but no one is right or wrong here. There is someone for everyone. There are a zillion lifestyle choices and sexual styles a couple can match up very well on. It is only when there is a mismatch that there is a problem. I don't feel it is fair to shame people for any lifestyle choice, however. I mean, again I respect your opinion and even the part that you are kind of shaming others for because I understand that there is not the intent to shame behind it. But you are still essentially saying "you can't have a good man if you are a bad girl". And the "bad girl" part is purely about her sexual behavior, that's the shame-y part. Whereas, please trust me, there are MANY men who really do want a bad girl and who will truly LOVE HER as she is.

I agree there should be no deception of any kind. By that I mean, a person's past and lifestyle choices, IMO, should be shared with any potential new partner. Not details, just general information.

Now if you were a lying, cheating, scoundrel in the past...I assume you wouldn't necessarily come clean, so therefore, we are always at risk of someone just blatently pulling the wool over our eyes, if that is their intent. If a lying, cheating scoundrel makes their way into your life, sometimes you really had no way of knowing this beforehand. It happens. But just having lots of sexual experience of the super sl*tty kind doesn't necessarily mean this person was cheating, lying or a scoundrel.

I think most adults can and do navigate this area pretty well when coupling up. Most understand the need for compatibility and try to get it...even if they end up being wrong or things change for the worse later, most people thought they were coupling with someone who was compatible.

There are sl*tty boys and girls, and more chaste boys and girls, and every type in between...and plenty for all to find their match.

In the case of OP's cousin...

If OP is correct and the cousin doesn't actually like doing this sl*tty stuff and if she is just trying to get a man to love her through a misguided attempt at throwing sex at men just to nab them...then I wish for her to get more self aware and not try to find a man this way. It isn't authentic. But she doesn't know that yet. She will likely learn after a few more heartbreaks.

If OTOH OP's cousin is just a fun girl and really wants to be this sexual and really doesn't need to have an established emotional connection first before playing in the sl*tty zone, then more power to her and may she find her Prince Charming Freak.

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post #107 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 01:07 AM
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"Sl*tty sex"

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I totally respect your opinion. But who do you think nice engineers (male or female) who are also ****ty freaks want to marry? Why, other ****ty freaks, of course.

Shared sexual values and compatibility are IMPORTANT, for sure, but no one is right or wrong here. There is someone for everyone. There are a zillion lifestyle choices and sexual styles a couple can match up very well on. It is only when there is a mismatch that there is a problem. I don't feel it is fair to shame people for any lifestyle choice, however. I mean, again I respect your opinion and even the part that you are kind of shaming others for because I understand that there is not the intent to shame behind it. But you are still essentially saying "you can't have a good man if you are a bad girl". And the "bad girl" part is purely about her sexual behavior, that's the shame-y part. Whereas, please trust me, there are MANY men who really do want a bad girl and who will truly LOVE HER as she is.

I agree there should be no deception of any kind. By that I mean, a person's past and lifestyle choices, IMO, should be shared with any potential new partner. Not details, just general information.

Now if you were a lying, cheating, scoundrel in the past...I assume you wouldn't necessarily come clean, so therefore, we are always at risk of someone just blatently pulling the wool over our eyes, if that is their intent. If a lying, cheating scoundrel makes their way into your life, sometimes you really had no way of knowing this beforehand. It happens. But just having lots of sexual experience of the super sl*tty kind doesn't necessarily mean this person was cheating, lying or a scoundrel.

I think most adults can and do navigate this area pretty well when coupling up. Most understand the need for compatibility and try to get it...even if they end up being wrong or things change for the worse later, most people thought they were coupling with someone who was compatible.

There are sl*tty boys and girls, and more chaste boys and girls, and every type in between...and plenty for all to find their match.

In the case of OP's cousin...

If OP is correct and the cousin doesn't actually like doing this sl*tty stuff and if she is just trying to get a man to love her through a misguided attempt at throwing sex at men just to nab them...then I wish for her to get more self aware and not try to find a man this way. It isn't authentic. But she doesn't know that yet. She will likely learn after a few more heartbreaks.

If OTOH OP's cousin is just a fun girl and really wants to be this sexual and really doesn't need to have an established emotional connection first before playing in the sl*tty zone, then more power to her and may she find her Prince Charming Freak.


Not shaming at all. But I also don't have a problem identifying and "naming" slvtty behavior. It's entirely possible to appropriately name and identify without judgement. It's the "political correctness" movement that forbids the truth at times.

So let's just be honest and acknowledge that words have meaning. Slvtty to me means getting your freak on with little discrimination regarding emotional commitment and the existence of a relationship. Frankly I think most can accept a similar definition. Maybe not. But let's get down into the details if we're going to have a thoughtful dialog.

My point wasn't that sexually indiscriminate people won't find love and a relationship with each other. Of course they will. And they won't judge each other (hopefully) for it. And all will be well in their lives.

However.... MANY boys and girls assume they can cut loose, sow their wild oats, sleep around, etc. and THEN fall back on a stable, solid guy who chose NOT to toss aside discrimination and interpersonal relationships and just have sex. THATs the disconnect. And let's also be honest and acknowledge this happens all the time - to men and women alike - people get juggidy with other "carefree souls" and expect to fall back on reliable and somewhat boring but stable and motivated men.

For many, myself included, it's unappealing and sexually unattractive to be indiscriminate and enjoy NSA random sex. Unappealing. Like a guy who loves really skinny chicks being hit in by a 350 lb woman. Or a guy who is a chubby chaser being hit on by a toothpick supermodel. Not his thing. Not interested. Not that it's objectively "bad" but that's never going to happen. You might call that "judgement" but I call it comparability and attraction.

So of course we all judge at some level. It's not shaming to say that is unappealing to us.

I'm saying that a guy or girl who is acting out and slvtting around ASSUMING someone who doesn't find this appealing will somehow be available to them later is only deceiving themselves.

Btw this has nothing to do with sexual appetite, freakiness between the sheets, etc. which can definitely happen in a "boring" committed relationship - it has to do with appeal and character and how character is evaluated. Some believe sexual past should be considered when evaluating character and others don't. I'm not judging, per se. I'm respecting people's rights to their values and opinions. And I know many DO consider this and that's their right. And I hope people understand that when making decisions.

[and for the record I have advised son to "hit that" a number of times - girls that are touching him and very interested - but that's not his thing. So I get it and I hope kids realize sexual attitudes and behavior are considered by many in choosing a partner]



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post #108 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 01:22 AM
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"Sl*tty sex"

To clarify - wordy posts from me previously but rereading them I'm not being clear - sex itself isn't what I'm talking about. Sexual freakiness isn't either.

Slvtty behavior to me isn't the act it's the indiscriminate part. They get commingled in a lot of discussions.

In any committed or even "sort of" committed and exclusive relationship - I don't care what goes on. In OPs case her cousin should ramp the freakiness up a little more slowly as a strategy only to get a better guy. But if someone is just hooking up - that's the part that will be an issue for many.

Hopefully that's clearer




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post #109 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 07:26 AM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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I personally think that she is so sexual bc she is insecure, and she has crazy jealousy issues. She has this horrible view that men who cheat on their gf or wives is bc they weren't sexually fulfilling which I disagree with. She feels like it's her duty and responsibility to fully satisfy her man which I personally don't think that's possible. She is the type of person who gets so mad if she finds out that her man masterbates or watches porn, she views this as almost like cheating behavior.
She believes to keep a man or to make a man happy it's all about sex.
That's not a bad thing, as long as she realizes there's more to a relationship and keeping her man happy. If she only focuses on that one thing, then men figure out quickly she has little more to offer.

This is like a guy thinking his partner/wife can be kept happy by buying her things, and nothing else.

In an ideal world, most of us men would want a partner like her, but who also has more to offer. Many of us here on TAM have the opposite problem - wives who are great in 42 other areas, but lacking in this one. Your cousin has the sexual side figured out, but not much else, it seems.

On a related note, many women go through periods like this, mainly when they're younger. Then they learn. Clearly some don't. My wife would reluctantly admit that she went through a period where she thought the easy way to a man's heart was through his penis. It's part self-esteem (or lack thereof) and part false-logic. You can definitely attract men this way, but keeping them is another story. My wife learned this the hard way, and it didn't take her too long, fortunately. In other words, it's the easy way, with relatively minimal effort, and it DOES work, but only for a short time.

There's nothing wrong with using sex as PART of attracting a mate - as long as two other things occur: you offer more than just sex AND you maintain it throughout the relationship (ie. it's not a bait and switch, fake interest, whatever). Your cousin probably really LIKES sex, so the maintaining it would not be an issue. It's showing men that she has more to offer than just that that's the key for her. But if she thinks that's all she's worth, then she's in trouble. Again, my wife learned this when she was younger, that she has more to offer than just her body.
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post #110 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 07:39 AM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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That's a good observation and I think your right. She has a lot of issues from childhood and she requires a lot to feel safe and loved.
And there are men out there who want a relationship in which they can be the 'protector' and want to make their partner feel safe and loved.

In my own personal experience, I don't mind needy women (to a point, of course). It's likely because I'm slightly needy, too There's a fine line, obviously, but desiring a partner who needs you and one who you need is perfectly normal.

Both my marriages have been to borderline extremely independent women, although my first marriage did not start out that way. When she and I were happiest were when our 'neediness' levels were equal for each other. Not overboard, mind you, just 'there'. My current wife has been independent since the get-go, and although I actually really admire it, there's also something lacking. She's almost too independent, and I often feel as though I'm simply not required. I don't want to be joined at the hip or anything, but at the same time, I require some sort of acknowledgement that I'm a big part of her life. I go through stretches where I'm lonely, but that's my cross to bear.
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post #111 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 10:02 AM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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And there are men out there who want a relationship in which they can be the 'protector' and want to make their partner feel safe and loved.

In my own personal experience, I don't mind needy women (to a point, of course). It's likely because I'm slightly needy, too There's a fine line, obviously, but desiring a partner who needs you and one who you need is perfectly normal.

Both my marriages have been to borderline extremely independent women, although my first marriage did not start out that way. When she and I were happiest were when our 'neediness' levels were equal for each other. Not overboard, mind you, just 'there'. My current wife has been independent since the get-go, and although I actually really admire it, there's also something lacking. She's almost too independent, and I often feel as though I'm simply not required. I don't want to be joined at the hip or anything, but at the same time, I require some sort of acknowledgement that I'm a big part of her life. I go through stretches where I'm lonely, but that's my cross to bear.
Your post gave me DejaVu.... maybe you and I have spoken about this before...

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post #112 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:57 PM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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Originally Posted by TheTruthHurts View Post

Type 1. However.... MANY boys and girls assume they can cut loose, sow their wild oats, sleep around, etc. and THEN fall back on a stable, solid guy

Type 2. .....who chose NOT to toss aside discrimination and interpersonal relationships and just have sex. THATs the disconnect.

And let's also be honest and acknowledge this happens all the time - to men and women alike - people get juggidy with other "carefree souls" and expect to fall back on reliable and somewhat boring but stable and motivated men.
I do understand what you are saying. I just think that you sound as if you feel more "right" or "righteous" because of your opinion. You seem to think there is a "more right" opinion, and yours is it.

You've described two types of people above, 1. those who cut loose, sow their wild oats, sleep around, and 2. those who do NOT toss aside discrimination and interpersonal relationships and just have sex. Gee, doesn't it kind of sound like you are saying type 1 are lesser quality people than type 2? Why yes, yes it does. And no matter how many other ways you try to twist it, that's still what you are saying.

Ok, its your opinion and all. I just disagree that type 1 and type 2 people are so different and I disagree that one type is more moral or valuable than the other.

As to "let's be honest"....I honestly don't know what you are talking about. I have never, ever heard a sl*tty girl say that she is going to sow her oats now and marry someone who is NOT LIKE HER later. EVER!!! I guess maybe if you are talking about generations past? I don't know.

But I've known a lot of sl*tty girls and boys and none of them EVER talked about finding someone who is different than they are. In fact, normally, my sl*tty friends complain that they can't find a man who is fun/sexy/sexual/skilled enough for them for an LTR. Not once have I ever heard one say "I just can't wait to find me a man who never sowed any wild oats....right after I'm done sowing mine".

Then of course, you describe the type 2 people as "reliable and somewhat boring".

I don't understand why you equate sexual behavior with things like reliable or not reliable and boring or not boring. Its as if you think being sl*tty is something like sky diving, like it is simply an adventure seeking thing. But being extremely sexual (which to me does not necessarily also imply having lots of partners) is just the way life is for some people. It is their sexuality, not some game and scheme for adventure. It is their fulfillment and can be completely healthy and beautiful...but you seem to paint it all with one brush.

I've known fun sexual freaks who were also "boring and reliable" as far as the outside world knows them, who are loyal and faithful spouses and hard workers. Type 1.

I've known reliable and boring people with little to no previous sexual experience who have cheated on their spouse and devastated two families at once. Type 2.

I don't see any reason to try to label people's entire personality and value system just based on their sexual activities. Being sl*tty doesn't make someone a bad person and not being sl*tty doesn't make someone a good person.

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post #113 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 01:10 PM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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So my question to men... you start dating this awesome girl and she let's say... gives you oral all the time and swallows every time or let's you go on her face and loves it, can you see this as a serious relationship? Is this marriage material?
Okay... tell your "cousin" Hell yes, where do I sign up?!? Sounds like my dream girl!

Only two potential issues I see:

1) She's overtly sexual with other men (ie flirty, touchy etc.). It needs to stay in the bedroom.

2) She turns ice cold after the wedding and the well runs dry. Then I just feel duped.

My girlfriend is very classy outwardly to others and also very kinky in bed. I'm head over heels atm.

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post #114 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 05:26 PM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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I do understand what you are saying. I just think that you sound as if you feel more "right" or "righteous" because of your opinion. You seem to think there is a "more right" opinion, and yours is it.

You've described two types of people above, 1. those who cut loose, sow their wild oats, sleep around, and 2. those who do NOT toss aside discrimination and interpersonal relationships and just have sex. Gee, doesn't it kind of sound like you are saying type 1 are lesser quality people than type 2? Why yes, yes it does. And no matter how many other ways you try to twist it, that's still what you are saying.

Ok, its your opinion and all. I just disagree that type 1 and type 2 people are so different and I disagree that one type is more moral or valuable than the other.

As to "let's be honest"....I honestly don't know what you are talking about. I have never, ever heard a sl*tty girl say that she is going to sow her oats now and marry someone who is NOT LIKE HER later. EVER!!! I guess maybe if you are talking about generations past? I don't know.

But I've known a lot of sl*tty girls and boys and none of them EVER talked about finding someone who is different than they are. In fact, normally, my sl*tty friends complain that they can't find a man who is fun/sexy/sexual/skilled enough for them for an LTR. Not once have I ever heard one say "I just can't wait to find me a man who never sowed any wild oats....right after I'm done sowing mine".

Then of course, you describe the type 2 people as "reliable and somewhat boring".

I don't understand why you equate sexual behavior with things like reliable or not reliable and boring or not boring. Its as if you think being sl*tty is something like sky diving, like it is simply an adventure seeking thing. But being extremely sexual (which to me does not necessarily also imply having lots of partners) is just the way life is for some people. It is their sexuality, not some game and scheme for adventure. It is their fulfillment and can be completely healthy and beautiful...but you seem to paint it all with one brush.

I've known fun sexual freaks who were also "boring and reliable" as far as the outside world knows them, who are loyal and faithful spouses and hard workers. Type 1.

I've known reliable and boring people with little to no previous sexual experience who have cheated on their spouse and devastated two families at once. Type 2.

I don't see any reason to try to label people's entire personality and value system just based on their sexual activities. Being sl*tty doesn't make someone a bad person and not being sl*tty doesn't make someone a good person.


Ok I'll break it down for you a bit more.

#2 - ABSOLUTELY non slvtty people are better quality people than slvtty people. No question in my mind. The reason has NOTHING to do with sex. That's perhaps the nuance you are not picking up.

The slvtty people I've known and known of - many of them guys BTW - are impulsive, attention seeking, needy, and are higher up in the narcissism scale. As in the take risks by hooking up indiscriminately, and have no qualms about working someone for sex then leaving.

This isn't about morality, it's about character.

Maybe in my 50 plus years I just haven't run into the people of high character that have high risk NSA sex with lots of people and are caring people. Or maybe they're all very discrete (which I'm not ruling out BTW but I suspect this isn't the case).

#2 - there are several active threads here where the BS has just discovered they are married to a serial cheater and had no idea. This place filters for weaker, "nice boring guys" so I have NO idea how you can possibly say these people (men and women) don't slvt around then become born again virgins and choose a nice guy or girl to marry. And manipulate hoping their past doesn't come out.

#3 - I fully support freaky, wild sex, role play, bdsm, bob, water sports, even 3-somes for the rare (IMO) couple that is close enough to make that work. All in some sort of relationship that is exclusive. I believe "poly" is a cop out cake eating excuse for people who are with "Mr Right Now" as opposed to "Mr Right". I even have no problem with FWB if both are completely on board, one isn't going along hoping for more, and it isnt 1 of 20 concurrent FWB situations (which is just putting lipstick on slvtty behavior IMO)

#4 - of COURSE I'm certain of my opinion and believe I'm right. I'm a man and I'm not a weak man. I have the characteristics and confidence of conviction that we ask the BS of TAM to acquire or emulate. What do you expect



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post #115 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 05:29 PM
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"Sl*tty sex"

And OP this isn't a thread jack - whether I'm right or wrong doesn't matter - there are many who feel as I do and your cousin could be limiting her options if she displays some of these behaviors.

If she just really enjoys sex inside an exclusive relationship, and doesn't hook up outside of relationships, then she should figure out how to talk about sex inside the relationship and get that point across. It could be that people assume she's easy when she's really not

And since people normally don't openly talk about sex, they make assumptions that are often wrong. That's why the dialog between me and @Faithful Wife should show you how differently people can see these things.


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post #116 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 05:52 PM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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Originally Posted by TheTruthHurts View Post

ABSOLUTELY non slvtty people are better quality people than slvtty people.
Everything after this just being a rationale for judging people, it was irrelevant. But the bolded is relevant. It is your opinion that you are able to judge others, even people you do not know nor know the circumstances of and do not know the behaviors of, you will label people as sl*tty for your own criteria even if you don't know if they fit into it or not. And you, of course, are a much better human being than all of them.

Got it.

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post #117 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 06:54 PM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

The slvtty woman I dated long ago (she described herself with that term), has been married for at least 20 years now. They have 2 kids, one an extremely difficult special needs kid. As far as I know she has dedicated her life to her children and her husband. And he has done so for her.

Life has not treated her well, but she has done everything I could ever expect from a good moral person.

Thinking about her almost makes me cry. We didn't stay together because she wanted kids - it really was or only (but we agreed insurmountable) difference. Her special needs child is extremely difficult - he is dangerously violent and requires constant watching. She has chosen not to institutionalize him when most people would have done so. The result though has been a terribly unhappy life for her - caused by the one thing she most cared about. She at one point mentioned how she wished she had never had children.




Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruthHurts View Post
snip

#2 - ABSOLUTELY non slvtty people are better quality people than slvtty people. No question in my mind. The reason has NOTHING to do with sex. That's perhaps the nuance you are not picking up.

The slvtty people I've known and known of - many of them guys BTW - are impulsive, attention seeking, needy, and are higher up in the narcissism scale. As in the take risks by hooking up indiscriminately, and have no qualms about working someone for sex then leaving.

This isn't about morality, it's about character.

snip
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post #118 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 10:54 PM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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Everything after this just being a rationale for judging people, it was irrelevant. But the bolded is relevant. It is your opinion that you are able to judge others, even people you do not know nor know the circumstances of and do not know the behaviors of, you will label people as sl*tty for your own criteria even if you don't know if they fit into it or not. And you, of course, are a much better human being than all of them.



Got it.


lol why are you so upset? Why do you think judgement is a bad thing? It's not. Relativism is cancerous to critical thinking. Some things are better than other things.


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post #119 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-14-2016, 12:24 AM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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Relativism is cancerous to critical thinking.
Your thought process concerning this subject is NOT critical thinking.
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post #120 of 198 (permalink) Old 12-14-2016, 12:38 AM
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Re: "Sl*tty sex"

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Your thought process concerning this subject is NOT critical thinking.


Au contraire. You just don't like my judgments.


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