Shouldn't we have it all?? - Page 7 - Talk About Marriage
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post #91 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 10:41 AM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

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Originally Posted by blueinbr View Post
Would you be willing to share what your late husband died from? That weight is very dangerous.

Mrs Blue was at that weight for a while and had considerable health issues. I partially blame myself for the state of the marriage that contributed to her weight issue.

And I'm still dealing with the aftermath.
Sure, Blue

He had his first and ONLY heart attack and passed away in his sleep.

By the time he passed away, he also had a whole slew of health issues, including Type II Diabetes. His cholesterol levels were dangerously high and his triglyceride levels were off the charts. He was also taking 80mgs. of 'baby aspirin' every day.

He did not change his diet.
He did not change his lifestyle.

He passed away at 57.
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post #92 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 10:55 AM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Very,

This is a very difficult situation to be in. And like many partners - you are struggling with both the message - and the intensity of the message. And on top of that, you are angry and highly conflicted.

Highly conflicted is bad. Because you end up contradicting yourself. Which you very much have done. You cannot say: I love you unconditionally.

And then turn around and say: But I'm divorcing you because you seem indifferent to my need to desire you.

----------------
The worst - worst - worst - thing you can do in a marriage - is bluff on divorce. Nothing is more toxic.
----------------

It is ok to have deal breakers. But then acknowledge them and don't claim to love her unconditionally. You are trying to have it both ways. That won't work. She won't trust you if you contradict yourself on something this major.


I DO love my wife no matter how much she weighs. But I DON'T desire her sexually no matter how much she weighs. The two things are different. And I must have both in order to remain married. That may sound harsh, but what I hear my wife say to me by her not caring about her weight is "I don't care how I look for you".





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Originally Posted by veryfrustratedude View Post
Thanks again to everyone for the comments, and Merry Christmas evening to all🎄.

This evening, less than an hour ago, I talked with my wife. I told her that it was important that I was honest with her. Essentially, I told her that I wanted to want her, and that, due to her not taking care of herself, that the passion that we once had is diminishing, and has been for awhile. I told her that I was concerned that she wasn't taking care of herself, not sleeping enough, not eating as healthy as she should, and not having time to exercise, as well as do the other things that she likes. She stated that she needs me to love her unconditionally, and I said that my love for her IS unconditional. Nothing could ever change that. Whether she weighed 500 lbs or 120 lbs, that doesn't change. But I tried to express to her that my DESIRE for her is affected by whether or not she takes care of herself. I cannot help that. I want to want HER, no one else, and I want her to want me to want her, if that makes sense. It makes me feel like she doesn't care if I want her or not when she doesn't take care of herself(I didn't tell her this last part). I told her that I will do everything in my power to provide her with time to take care of herself, whether that means sleep or exercise or just getting out of the house. I understand that she needs time just for herself. It was a difficult conversation, but I think it went pretty well. I'm glad we talked. Now, it's up to me to put my money where my mouth is and support her while allowing her to take care of herself, and it's up to her to make any lifestyle changes in response to our conversation. We'll see what happens.
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post #93 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 11:05 AM
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Shouldn't we have it all??

I don't see any contradiction. He loves his wife but feels no physical attraction to her. The two are separate issues and act on different parts of the brain.

I love my mother. My family. My dog. I feel no physical attraction to them.

I also feel physical attraction to some persons, but not love.

He is clearly saying that love is not enough. You can love a spouse and still leave them.
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post #94 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 01:05 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Blue,
As far as your comments below - we are in total agreement. Love and desire can be completely separate feelings even in a marriage.

However, many people would interpret a husbands assertion of unconditional love, to be in direct contradiction to an intention to divorce.

And ambiguity is best avoided in any communications that might lead to divorce.

And fwiw - I understand why the OP is upset. This isn't about health or a car accident. It is about priorities.

Thing is, if it was me, I would have started with a question, not a comment:

Do you miss the passion and the intensely physical part of our marriage?

Maybe she doesn't. Most folks, if you remove something they really want, they ask about it, maybe even complain about it. For now it is a mystery as to why she hasn't done that.

If she doesn't miss sex, or worse is relieved at its absence this requires a whole different approach.



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I don't see any contradiction. He loves his wife but feels no physical attraction to her. The two are separate issues and act on different parts of the brain.

I love my mother. My family. My dog. I feel no physical attraction to them.

I also feel physical attraction to some persons, but not love.

He is clearly saying that love is not enough. You can love a spouse and still leave them.
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post #95 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 01:22 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

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Absolutely! But then again, how many people know themselves well enough to be open and honest with themselves AND, how many of THOSE people are willing to be open and honest about themselves with another person UP FRONT?
In my age group, this type of self-awareness is pretty common. Some care about physical attraction a lot, some don't as much, some see it as a shallow endeavor to try to have an attractive partner. It is easy to discuss this and sort out who is who in dating, again, at my age anyway. Probably since most of us out here are divorced, we really have a better idea of what we are willing to do, what we can and can't do, what we should never do again.

Not true for all of those in my age group, some are still very unaware of their own needs and boundaries. But most I have encountered are pretty self-aware.

Remember the goal of feminism: Making sure only alphas get laid!
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post #96 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 01:33 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

[QUOTE=Vega; I never had a problem with his weight. Never.


?[/QUOTE]

I never had a problem with my husband going bald either, or thin but in no way healthy, but one of my X sisters in law did with her husband's lose of hair. It's a genetic thing and if you saw my then father in law, you should know that it would be a 50/50 chance that his sons may indeed end up bald and skinny but not physically with a hot body. More like skinny flabby if you catch my drift.

OP, how are your wife's parents and siblings? Are they thin and healthy, thin but not necessarily fit, or are most heavy set. Genetics does play a role here even if we don't want to believe it.

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #97 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 04:45 PM
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Shouldn't we have it all??

It is possible to think that if a spouse does not care about themselves, then therefore how can they care about their partner?.

Last edited by blueinbr; 12-27-2016 at 07:55 PM.
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post #98 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 08:57 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

This has been a very robust chat thread. Thanks to everyone for their opinions. It is very easy for many to cast opinions and criticize my actions, my conversation with my wife in being honest with her. My conversation was not cruel or insensitive. It was honest. As far as it being on Christmas, it just so happened that the opportunity presented itself, and I acted upon it. I believe that healthy relationships should include the triangle, they should include 3 things: passion, intimacy, and commitment. Passion without the other two is infatuation. Commitment without the other two is being a companion. Intimacy without commitment or passion is friendship. Consummate love is when you have all three. I am not content with just a form of intimacy(friendship, primarily) and commitment for the sake of finances and keeping the family together. Obviously, as we get older, and if health circumstances change, the passion/physical intimacy changes, and the intimacy component plays a larger role, etc. But the marriage bed, when you have two seemingly otherwise healthy 40-year old persons, has as its irreplaceable component the physical union of sex, and it should be a regular occurrence. I am NOT asking for perfection, do all of the women responding understand that? I understand how we all change as we age. I get that. I am not asking for a pornified body. The truth is, like it or not, ladies, men are visual. We are sight-oriented. The initiator of desire and arousal is, in large part, based on that sense, even though not all-inclusive. I cannot make myself be sexually attracted to unhealthy weight. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. If I cannot be genuinely attracted to my wife, wanting to be with her intimately, then it prevents full enjoyment of the marriage.
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post #99 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 09:35 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

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Originally Posted by veryfrustratedude View Post
...... I am NOT asking for perfection, do all of the women responding understand that? I understand how we all change as we age. I get that. I am not asking for a pornified body. The truth is, like it or not, ladies, men are visual. We are sight-oriented. The initiator of desire and arousal is, in large part, based on that sense, even though not all-inclusive. I cannot make myself be sexually attracted to unhealthy weight. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. If I cannot be genuinely attracted to my wife, wanting to be with her intimately, then it prevents full enjoyment of the marriage.
I'm not going to criticize you for not sexually desiring your wife due to her 40 lb weight gain but I am going to give you a pragmatic view of your situation.

Statistically speaking, the likelihood that your wife is going to drop 40 lbs (that were slowly gained over 15 +years) and return to her 'dating' weight is probably not great.

She can get on a diet to lose the weight quickly but chances are very high that she won't keep it off. I recall reading an article that stated that less than 5% of people who lose weight manage to keep more than 10% weight loss after 1 year. In your wife's case, were she to manage to lose the 40 lbs, she'll be lucky if she only gains 36 lbs back 12 months after reaching goal weight. Most people gain back their loss + more. That's just reality.

The best weight loss plans are those that work slowly. Since it did take years for her to gain the weight, you can try giving her years to lose it.

If you don't have that kind of patience, then you might as well end the relationship so you can find someone who does meet your need for physical attraction now. Ending the relationship will also free her to find someone who finds her sexually desirable in her current state. I can guarantee there are men out there who would love to have a woman like your wife for their own, extra 40 lbs included.

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post #100 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 10:36 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

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He had his first and ONLY heart attack and passed away in his sleep.

By the time he passed away, he also had a whole slew of health issues, including Type II Diabetes. His cholesterol levels were dangerously high and his triglyceride levels were off the charts. He was also taking 80mgs. of 'baby aspirin' every day.

He did not change his diet.
He did not change his lifestyle.

He passed away at 57.
I feel ya!

I'm now watching my husband head for his early death and it's so so hard ...
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post #101 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 05:56 PM
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post #102 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-29-2016, 08:59 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

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Originally Posted by veryfrustratedude View Post
Thanks again to everyone for the comments, and Merry Christmas evening to all🎄.

This evening, less than an hour ago, I talked with my wife. I told her that it was important that I was honest with her. Essentially, I told her that I wanted to want her, and that, due to her not taking care of herself, that the passion that we once had is diminishing, and has been for awhile. I told her that I was concerned that she wasn't taking care of herself, not sleeping enough, not eating as healthy as she should, and not having time to exercise, as well as do the other things that she likes. She stated that she needs me to love her unconditionally, and I said that my love for her IS unconditional. Nothing could ever change that. Whether she weighed 500 lbs or 120 lbs, that doesn't change. But I tried to express to her that my DESIRE for her is affected by whether or not she takes care of herself. I cannot help that. I want to want HER, no one else, and I want her to want me to want her, if that makes sense. It makes me feel like she doesn't care if I want her or not when she doesn't take care of herself(I didn't tell her this last part). I told her that I will do everything in my power to provide her with time to take care of herself, whether that means sleep or exercise or just getting out of the house. I understand that she needs time just for herself. It was a difficult conversation, but I think it went pretty well. I'm glad we talked. Now, it's up to me to put my money where my mouth is and support her while allowing her to take care of herself, and it's up to her to make any lifestyle changes in response to our conversation. We'll see what happens.
I don't know enough about your wife but I am worried that this comes back to bite you in the ass. Women generally do not think the same way as men in this context and put up with hairiness and pot bellies and still desire the husband. I only hope you maintain your weight and do not become a crinkly pot bellied geezer later as this might come back to haunt you. If she gets in shape, she will remember what you said and how you don't desire her warts and all.
She may well decide she doesn't desire your apparent shallowness either and do something about it, ....just saying. I know that would not be right as you are only being honest, but relationships and emotions often do not work the way we expect them to and honesty isn't always the best policy.
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post #103 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-29-2016, 09:12 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Aine, thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. I get what you're saying. I have been honest, and I do not feel like I am being shallow. I realize that there are many layers here. I truly do want to have passion and desire my wife. I do believe it's possible. I am not going to control what she does or does not do. I didn't tell her that I was going to divorce her, I just told her how I felt. I have to be able to respond to her sexually. All I am saying is, down the road, if she continues to not take care of herself, while I continue to take care of myself, it is not going to "just go away, and everything is hunky dory". Regardless of what other guys may say, trust me, IT IS AN ISSUE to some degree or another. I would never expect my wife to be height/weight proportional and maintain that unless I was willing to do it myself. I am willing to do that. I do that. It is part of my routine. I benefit from that, but so does my wife. I maintain myself, and I am not out there doing things I shouldn't do. I am faithful. I believe I am bringing this out into the open, doing it the right way, and, quite honestly, the responses by most of the females have been "your'e shallow" or "shame on you" or something similar. It's a no-win situation. Women don't want to hear that men actually care about appearance. How ridiculous is that? If I weighed 250 lbs and weighed 160 lbs when we got married, I would hope my wife would say something to me.
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post #104 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-30-2016, 07:48 AM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

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Originally Posted by veryfrustratedude View Post
Aine, thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. I get what you're saying. I have been honest, and I do not feel like I am being shallow. I realize that there are many layers here. I truly do want to have passion and desire my wife. I do believe it's possible. I am not going to control what she does or does not do. I didn't tell her that I was going to divorce her, I just told her how I felt. I have to be able to respond to her sexually. All I am saying is, down the road, if she continues to not take care of herself, while I continue to take care of myself, it is not going to "just go away, and everything is hunky dory". Regardless of what other guys may say, trust me, IT IS AN ISSUE to some degree or another. I would never expect my wife to be height/weight proportional and maintain that unless I was willing to do it myself. I am willing to do that. I do that. It is part of my routine. I benefit from that, but so does my wife. I maintain myself, and I am not out there doing things I shouldn't do. I am faithful. I believe I am bringing this out into the open, doing it the right way, and, quite honestly, the responses by most of the females have been "your'e shallow" or "shame on you" or something similar. It's a no-win situation. Women don't want to hear that men actually care about appearance. How ridiculous is that? If I weighed 250 lbs and weighed 160 lbs when we got married, I would hope my wife would say something to me.
What would you think if she were considering divorcing you if you were 200? It is a 40 pound difference we are talking about here, not 100, correct?

And remember, your wife has had a few kids. Your body would not have gone through that, so you cannot really make comparisons.

You are certainly free to do as you wish, OP. But if she is really perfect for you in every other way, and you decide to divorce anyway, you may end up reconsidering what really matters to you in life.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #105 of 135 (permalink) Old 12-30-2016, 08:00 AM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

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What would you think if she were considering divorcing you if you were 200? It is a 40 pound difference we are talking about here, not 100, correct?



And remember, your wife has had a few kids. Your body would not have gone through that, so you cannot really make comparisons.



You are certainly free to do as you wish, OP. But if she is really perfect for you in every other way, and you decide to divorce anyway, you may end up reconsidering what really matters to you in life.


Re read the details. She is up about 45 lbs from 120 lbs. Nearly a 40 % weight gain of nearly all fat. He said over the last two years. Not since the kids were born.
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