Shouldn't we have it all?? - Page 9 - Talk About Marriage
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post #121 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 12:52 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

In my journey of marriage (wife here) I have noticed that there are three components that play into my sexual desire.
1. Connection
2. Physical attractiveness of my partner
3. My body's needs
(hormonal cycle, self esteem, physical urges)

I have found that if I have two out of the three happening we can have great sex.
(all three would equal phenomenal sex)


These three input areas for my sexual desire are very fluid and will be different for different people.
For example I can feel super connected to my H because he and I have coffee together that morning, he gives me a little pep talk when I bring up something I'm struggling with, he looks me in the eyes when saying he loves me, he doesn't spend too much time on the computer that day.
Then when later that day I start to feel some physical desire the groundwork is laid and I feel close, safe, loved and accepted by him so I am ready to act on my urge.
If he looks good, smells good, and is overall attractive to me (this is fluid too, it's dependent on presentation not just his physique) then it's even more exciting!

I went through our first 20 years of marriage never analyzing any of this. It wasn't until after my EA 4 years ago that I started to really endeavor to understand my own desire levels and how my attraction-connection worked.

In my case we had gotten to a point in our M that my connection to my H had completely deteriorated. I was sort of a once married always married person who didn't take into consideration my own needs in the relationship, only his.
So he was super happy and felt that we had an amazing M but I was feeling very alone and without support or affirmation.


I didn't know that I needed to ask for more.
It wasn't until I innocently slipped into an easy companionship with a mutual male friend that I started realizing how disconnected I felt from my H. I was so surprised that in what I thought was an innocent friendship my sexual interest began to gravitate toward the person I was connecting with.


Thankfully this all ended before anything more took place. The connection with another man was bad enough, but it was also the wake-up call I needed to start really analyzing my needs and communicating with my H about them.


I'm sure that in those three inputs I mentioned there is a percentage ratio that is different for different people. I'm going to assume that your percentage on how much physical appearance plays into your desire and satisfaction is bigger than mine. BUT I am convinced that when you focus on more than just the one that feels at a deficit you will find a fuller experience and you won't be just focusing on something you can't change and getting hyper aware of it instead of looking at other ways to feel close and sexual with your W.


This brings me to the suggestion of finding out where your wife is in all of this. Apparently you are physically fit...so apparently you are attractive to her...But do you wear the kinds of clothes she likes? Have good hygiene, wear a cologne she likes?


In the connection area do you connect with her in a way that SHE feels connected? (Ie. speak her love language) what is her love language? (The area of connection in itself is a huge topic.)


And lastly, why isn't your wife having the physical desire for sex.Is she shut down because of depression, hormonal changes, her weight, etc.
Or is she having the physical desire and just not acting on it because she feels disconnected?


When a woman feels overweight and has low self esteem she doesn't have ANY motivation to pull out of it on her own.
The only motivation is to feel loved, supported and worth the effort it takes to lose weight.
If all you're seeing is fat and unattractiveness this is coming through to her and only making her feel worse. I promise you that.


So focus on connecting, (in her language) supporting, communicating and talking about the tough things in love and gentleness and genuine care for her struggle.
Don't skirt around the hard stuff that you are feeling but understand that for her it's not as simple as ‘lose weight and all is well’.
There's definitely more going on here than you realize.
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post #122 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 01:19 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Wow @tigerlily99 best post I have read yet and written so clear and concise.
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post #123 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 01:59 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

I like that @tigerlily99 has nailed down 3 specific components of her sexual desire. My needs don't line up perfectly. I would say my list would be something like:
1. physical attractiveness
2. emotional intimacy
3. the other persons desire for me.
And not specifically in that order. It is a bit of a dangerous situation. If I met an attractive person who was attracted to me, I could be in danger of breaking my rule about emotional intimacy before physical.
Now is it possible that OP really only has one criteria for sexual desire. I'm pretty sure I've met a few men who do only have one criteria.
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post #124 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 02:26 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nail View Post
I like that @tigerlily99 has nailed down 3 specific components of her sexual desire. My needs don't line up perfectly. I would say my list would be something like:

1. physical attractiveness

2. emotional intimacy

3. the other persons desire for me.

And not specifically in that order. It is a bit of a dangerous situation. If I met an attractive person who was attracted to me, I could be in danger of breaking my rule about emotional intimacy before physical.

Now is it possible that OP really only has one criteria for sexual desire. I'm pretty sure I've met a few men who do only have one criteria.


Let's say this is true... that he has only one criteria for sexual desire.

If his wife needs 2 out of her 3 criteria to be met before sex takes place, is it her husbands responsibility to meet those needs? Does she have some responsibility in getting her own needs met? And for him, if his needs are strictly attractiveness... is it only his wife's responsibility to met this?

In my experience, people treat their spouse how they want to be treated, not how their spouse wants to be treated. This is because there is a lack of understanding and communication and willingness to give the spouse what THEY need.

I need to feel connected emotionally to my husband to want to have sex too. But I don't wait around for my husband to take me out on a date, or put effort in connecting with me. (He should, but the reality is sometimes they don't). Instead of waiting around, getting mad and resentful, and not having sex, I take it upon myself and make plans for us to hang out because I'm better at it then he is. If I waited for my husband to always do what he is "suppose" to do, I'd be miserable, and re-virginized.
The OP needs attractiveness to have sex. And he is waiting for her to do what she is "suppose" to do. He should take some responsibility for his needs and actually talk to her about this. She probably doesn't know to what extent this bothers him.
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post #125 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 04:36 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

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Originally Posted by katiecrna View Post
If I waited for my husband to always do what he is "suppose" to do, I'd be miserable, and re-virginized.
That made me laugh out loud. "Re-virginized" Too funny!

Quote:
Originally Posted by katiecrna View Post
The OP needs attractiveness to have sex. And he is waiting for her to do what she is "suppose" to do. He should take some responsibility for his needs and actually talk to her about this. She probably doesn't know to what extent this bothers him.
I totally agree. And it seems that he has indeed talked to her a little about it. Most likely this is a multi-faceted problem and I'm just hoping it doesn't turn into a too little too late problem since I'm assuming it has been bottled up for sometime.


I feel that OP has clearly stated that the other components are in place for him to feel connected with his W. He just needed to be attracted to her physically in order to want to have sex.

As other posters have pointed out, why isn't SHE wanting more sex?
My three-fold criteria is for him to consider exactly what you're saying here @katiecrna it's ok and necessary for him to help her help him in this process.
We don't all think alike and her criteria is likely very different than his so she doesn't see it in black and white like he thinks she should.

Perhaps she is perfectly happy and content like my H was. Not knowing that anything is wrong because he's meeting all of her needs.
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post #126 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 06:27 PM
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Shouldn't we have it all??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nail View Post
I like that
My needs don't line up perfectly. I would say my list would be something like:

1. physical attractiveness

2. emotional intimacy

3. the other persons desire for me.

Ooo, that's a good point! @Mr. Nail The other person's desire for me is a biggie! And what's interesting is that is actually based on my belief or perception of their desire.
So it can be faulty.
Sometimes I perceive that my H isn't 'into me' that day, only to find out later that he was trying to be 'gentlemanly' and take things slow because he was actually feeling very full of desire but didn't want to rush me.

So I'll have to consider where that fits into my criteria.

This could be a whole thread on its own! Now I'm curious about other people's thoughts too!

As for the OP I was actually wondering earlier if that is part of the issue as well. Do you feel like your wife is not desiring you?
Do you feel like she isn't putting forth the effort to show you that she wants you in daily life? Like dressing up, flirting, being passionate with you, initiating sex sometimes, etc.
I just wonder if it's truly ALL about the weight. Honestly you don't strike me as shallow in your posts. I wonder if, say hypothetically your wife lost the weight, looked great physically but NOTHING else changed, would it be enough? Her wardrobe, her moods, her passion levels, the frequency of her initiating sex, and her interest in you didn't change. JUST her weight.

You might find that you are fixating on only one part of the 'fix'.

But if that's truly it, than just help her lose the weight. She probably needs you to get involved.
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post #127 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 09:08 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Thanks again to everyone. Tigerlily, thank you for your belief that I am not shallow. Certainly, that is not my desire in my posting and responses to appear so.

I hear the advice of those advocating time spent with their spouses and making sure that is at at a premium. There is much truth in that, and I must be more aggressive about that. Katiecrna, I have read your posts regarding your husband-I am in a similar profession, and work very long hours. I truly do wish it didn't matter to me how much my wife weighs. It would be much easier. Twenty years from now, maybe that will be the case. I want to iterate once again, in my own mind, the difference between love and desire. They are connected, intertwined, complimentary. And they can exist both without the other. For me, the presence of passion/desire/arousal enable me to meet the needs of my wife fully. It enables me to engage her fully. It motivates me to do things for her, be thoughtful, place her needs above my own, look forward to being with her. It is the gasoline in the engine. Connection begins in the living room, so to speak. Passion and desire help to bring that connection into something deeper in the bedroom. I understand these things.

I am honestly going to dedicate myself, lets say over the next 6-12 months, to truly loving my wife in a way that attempts NOT to focus on her weight. I admit, I have held resentment, anger, and frustrations towards her because of this weight gain, and even though I do not take it out on her, I am kind to her, I know it has some effect in some way for her emotionally. That's on me, things I have to work through, bring to the surface, and deal with. I'm actually going to see a counselor for this next week. I know I must process those negative emotions, it's not her fault. I do want to meet my wife's needs and love her well. It will be my goal to spend time with her, be very proactive about that time, be thoughtful, helpful, kind, patient, a good listener, encouraging, and make every attempt to make her life as easy as I am able. I will do so and we will NOT discuss weight. We will NOT mention it. In the meantime, I am going to continue to take care of myself, and do the things I enjoy that keep me healthy. Is it not reasonable to think that my wife would desire to be desirable at some point? Are there any women out there who, with an attentive, healthy, kind husband(whom they physically desire), who is obviously doing everything he knows to do to love you well, but who also may know wishes she would at last try to lose weight, who would just not even try to do so?? Is that not a reasonable hope or expectation?
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post #128 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 09:30 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

I get where your coming from, but.... I do not understand why you are set on not discussing weight. Why is it so important that she arrives at this by herself? And if she doesn't, what is going to happen?

I think your making a big mistake by avoiding this conversation. And putting myself in your wife's position, Not only would I want to know, I would be so pissed if you didn't tell me. I think it's a weird game your playing. This weird passive test that you want to see if she will pass. I don't like that, be honest and direct with her.
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post #129 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 10:09 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Katiecrna, I have had the discussion, if you'll read it in an earlier post....

But there's no point in CONTINUING to discuss it.
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post #130 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 10:12 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Thanks again to everyone for the comments, and Merry Christmas evening to all🎄.

This evening, less than an hour ago, I talked with my wife. I told her that it was important that I was honest with her.
...from the earlier thread, on page 4....


Essentially, I told her that I wanted to want her, and that, due to her not taking care of herself, that the passion that we once had is diminishing, and has been for awhile. I told her that I was concerned that she wasn't taking care of herself, not sleeping enough, not eating as healthy as she should, and not having time to exercise, as well as do the other things that she likes. She stated that she needs me to love her unconditionally, and I said that my love for her IS unconditional. Nothing could ever change that. Whether she weighed 500 lbs or 120 lbs, that doesn't change. But I tried to express to her that my DESIRE for her is affected by whether or not she takes care of herself. I cannot help that. I want to want HER, no one else, and I want her to want me to want her, if that makes sense. It makes me feel like she doesn't care if I want her or not when she doesn't take care of herself(I didn't tell her this last part). I told her that I will do everything in my power to provide her with time to take care of herself, whether that means sleep or exercise or just getting out of the house. I understand that she needs time just for herself. It was a difficult conversation, but I think it went pretty well. I'm glad we talked. Now, it's up to me to put my money where my mouth is and support her while allowing her to take care of herself, and it's up to her to make any lifestyle changes in response to our conversation. We'll see what happens.
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post #131 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 10:14 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Sorry for the typo on the last post...this was my conversation, which I posted on Dec 25...

Thanks again to everyone for the comments, and Merry Christmas evening to all🎄.

This evening, less than an hour ago, I talked with my wife. I told her that it was important that I was honest with her. Essentially, I told her that I wanted to want her, and that, due to her not taking care of herself, that the passion that we once had is diminishing, and has been for awhile. I told her that I was concerned that she wasn't taking care of herself, not sleeping enough, not eating as healthy as she should, and not having time to exercise, as well as do the other things that she likes. She stated that she needs me to love her unconditionally, and I said that my love for her IS unconditional. Nothing could ever change that. Whether she weighed 500 lbs or 120 lbs, that doesn't change. But I tried to express to her that my DESIRE for her is affected by whether or not she takes care of herself. I cannot help that. I want to want HER, no one else, and I want her to want me to want her, if that makes sense. It makes me feel like she doesn't care if I want her or not when she doesn't take care of herself(I didn't tell her this last part). I told her that I will do everything in my power to provide her with time to take care of herself, whether that means sleep or exercise or just getting out of the house. I understand that she needs time just for herself. It was a difficult conversation, but I think it went pretty well. I'm glad we talked. Now, it's up to me to put my money where my mouth is and support her while allowing her to take care of herself, and it's up to her to make any lifestyle changes in response to our conversation. We'll see what happens.
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post #132 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 10:36 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

You will feel resentment when you see her eating a bowl of ice cream.
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post #133 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 10:45 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Im convinced that it's the very things that are the hardest that we must discuss more because they are the very things that are the most misunderstood between us as couples.
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post #134 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:48 PM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Quote:
Originally Posted by veryfrustratedude View Post
Aine, thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. I get what you're saying. I have been honest, and I do not feel like I am being shallow. I realize that there are many layers here. I truly do want to have passion and desire my wife. I do believe it's possible. I am not going to control what she does or does not do. I didn't tell her that I was going to divorce her, I just told her how I felt. I have to be able to respond to her sexually. All I am saying is, down the road, if she continues to not take care of herself, while I continue to take care of myself, it is not going to "just go away, and everything is hunky dory". Regardless of what other guys may say, trust me, IT IS AN ISSUE to some degree or another. I would never expect my wife to be height/weight proportional and maintain that unless I was willing to do it myself. I am willing to do that. I do that. It is part of my routine. I benefit from that, but so does my wife. I maintain myself, and I am not out there doing things I shouldn't do. I am faithful. I believe I am bringing this out into the open, doing it the right way, and, quite honestly, the responses by most of the females have been "your'e shallow" or "shame on you" or something similar. It's a no-win situation. Women don't want to hear that men actually care about appearance. How ridiculous is that? If I weighed 250 lbs and weighed 160 lbs when we got married, I would hope my wife would say something to me.
I get where you are coming from I really do.
I wonder in this pursuit for maintaining your own body do you help your wife around the house for example.
Many women I know including myself at one time when the kids still at home

1. work full time
2. commute long distances/stuck in traffic
3. do all the cooking
4. do all the cleaning or organise cleaning
5. take care of all the kids schooling, extra curricular activities
6. pay the bills
7. Drive the kids
8. Do the groceries, etc
Need I go on?

Husband, goes to work, comes back, goes to gym and comes back, goes to golf and comes back.

Get the picture?
Perhaps you need to consider her timetable and what she does with the hours she has. I for one would have loved to have an hour to go to the gym in the midst of all that or take 4 hours to go play golf but something else would have had to give and in the end it is usually the frazzled wife who puts herself last.
I wonder is this the scenario in your house? Just asking, cause these are quite common dynamics in many households.
Now my kids are gone I still have to do bills, but have learned to do what I can do. Due to my working hours and commute cannot always make it to a gym but at least I have options.
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post #135 of 135 (permalink) Old 01-05-2017, 01:55 AM
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Re: Shouldn't we have it all??

Quote:
Originally Posted by aine View Post
I get where you are coming from I really do.

I wonder in this pursuit for maintaining your own body do you help your wife around the house for example.

Many women I know including myself at one time when the kids still at home



1. work full time

2. commute long distances/stuck in traffic

3. do all the cooking

4. do all the cleaning or organise cleaning

5. take care of all the kids schooling, extra curricular activities

6. pay the bills

7. Drive the kids

8. Do the groceries, etc

Need I go on?



Husband, goes to work, comes back, goes to gym and comes back, goes to golf and comes back.



Get the picture?

Perhaps you need to consider her timetable and what she does with the hours she has. I for one would have loved to have an hour to go to the gym in the midst of all that or take 4 hours to go play golf but something else would have had to give and in the end it is usually the frazzled wife who puts herself last.

I wonder is this the scenario in your house? Just asking, cause these are quite common dynamics in many households.

Now my kids are gone I still have to do bills, but have learned to do what I can do. Due to my working hours and commute cannot always make it to a gym but at least I have options.


Read post 38. She doesn't work. He works 60 hours a week and still does a lot around the house.
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