tobio

Load of interesting posts, thankyou! I am turning over lots of comments in my head and imagining various options.

In answer to your question. We pretty much have nothing LOL! We're starting with nothing so in that sense I don't think we'd even need a pre-nuptual (sp?) agreement. I would think it only fair that assets during the marriage were split 50/50 if anything were to happen. We don't really have spousal support here, and child support I would say would be negotiable depending on the main carer and the job situation: say for example we married and divorced and he had our kids as the main carer and I was the main earner, I would fully expect to pay support to him. Fair's fair and all that.

I hadn't thought about the perspective of others upon a name. It might be a minor point but the names AREN'T hyphenated. No hyphen! My oldest daughter is 7 and is often called by her first name and ONE of her last names depending on where she is and what she's doing. She interchanges when she writes her name on schoolwork. She told me once that she likes that she has mummy's name and that of her grandparents as she has most contact with us.

On another thing... What you say about leading the family. Yes my OH does not lead. We kind of go with whoever has the knowledge or expertise in a particular area. My OH is not weak, absent or dominated by me LOL for sure! I just do not see him as leading but equally do not see him as weak. I find it interesting that you do not perceive a two-surname family as one which acknowledges an equality and a walking side-by-side "nod" to the fact that the woman is equally as capable in leadership as the man. There are many different takes on the name situ.

ETA: you say men risk their financial futures by signing marriage contracts. I think you are thinking from a more "traditional" viewpoint here and his assets acquired prior to marriage assuming the woman has the lesser earning capacity? Also wise to acknowledge in this dynamic when raising a family the part traditionally a woman plays in staying at home to raise the family, leaving or cutting down work and putting back her career prospects with a gap in her cv. The role this plays in enabling the H to continue working and as well as supporting the family, climbing the career ladder. Obviously like-for-like, if she wasn't there doing that then he would have to make significant changes to his lifestyle to enable the kids to be looked after by employing childcare or altering his job/hours/etc. Women also risk their financial futures therefore by doing this no?

AFEH

Honestly Tobio the only valid man’s opinion is your husbands. You are in conflict about your last name. Personally after all you’ve been through I thought it would have been a no brainer to go with what your future H wants.

You’ll need to come out of the conflict with a win/win solution. If it’s I win/you lose or I lose/you win then one of you is going to be resentful about something that happened on your wedding day and that will not be a good reminder of it.

If you were my daughter I would advise you to go along with your future husband’s wishes. By wanting you and your children to take his name, in his own way he will be taking personal responsibility for all of you and the naming will seal that responsibility in an exceptionally big way. And isn’t that what you want? Do you not want him to be personally responsible for you and your children for the very long term, until death you do part?

tobio

Hey Bob!

Duly noted and added to the masses of relevant thoughts going round in my head.

I think too much.

ETA: I do worry about my girls not having the same name as me. I don't like the idea. And there's no way their dad would consent to us changing their surname.
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AFEH

Ok you have a few important people’s needs to take into consideration, well done for looking into it in the way you are doing. We can lose ourselves in marriage sometimes and put others needs before our own and somehow lose our identity. I feel it is about compromise but not about sacrifice. I can’t think of anything to say to help you other than to say well done for going about it in the way you are.

AFEH

Here is my answer to your question Tobio. If my wife had ever said she wants to keep her maiden name I would have felt that she wasn’t truly committed to me. That would have very negatively have affected my behaviour. In my case I am a very long term planner and a crazily committed man, I couldn’t have done what I did if I believed my wife’s thoughts about us where “temporary”. For me marriage only ever works when both spouses are 100% committed to making it work.

Conrad

People always surprise me.

He relents reaches out and agrees to book the date.

Then on to the next conflict.

Just amazing.

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-AFEH

AFEH

Unfortunately it can become a power struggle. A dominance thing like in the boardroom in times of trouble. Will you marry me? Yes but its conditional and here are my conditions.

agentem

My wife changed her name.

To me it meant we were a single family and that our kids would share the same name as both of us. Also, outsiders would know that we were married and we would spare them from having to write two names on holiday cards and other missives.

Also, if you aren't willing to take your husband's name then you are just telling him that you'd rather keep your father's name.

tobio

Thing is Conrad, it was always going to be a subject on the cards whether it be my OH or if I'd met someone completely different.

For some women it's a no-brainer and wouldn't be an issue. If I were marrying OH and he did not have strong feelings on the matter then we wouldn't be on to "another conflict." I am entitled to my feelings just as he is entitled to his and mine are strong as are his. I'm not looking for the next conflict. But I'm not going to avoid it because it IS a bone of contention between us and needs dealing with.

Interestingly my sister who is married had pretty much exactly the same discussion with her now-husband during their engagement. She has kept our surname. They are having their first child and have agreed it will have his surname. My BIL actually came to me for some insight into my sister's thinking a couple of years ago knowing I felt similarly.

I am looking at things from my OH's POV. But then I think, what about *my* family name? Why are we honouring his family name and not mine? Why am I less committed if I don't take his name? I don't feel "less" committed, I was the one who wanted to get married all along!

Obv. I know only he can answer that so really am thinking out loud. I do find it fascinating that guys have said thry would feel their wife was less committed if she didn't change her name. Is there a guy equivalent where the wife would feel her husband was less committed upon marriage? I don't know.

Ramble over.
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tobio

I don't think of it like that: it's not just my father's name, it's MY name too. I am a separate entity to my father with my own name. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of us all having the same name. What I struggle with is why if I'd rather it was my name then that makes me less committed/domineering (things previously mentioned by guys on this thread.) I am neither!
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OhhShiney

When I was first married, a hundred years ago, it was exhilarating to have my wife take my last name. It was a sign of commitment, etc. However, given the state of marriage and relationships, sadly, the old custom may becoming quaint. And the ex Mrs. OhhShiney is stuck with my name, her maiden name being lost 30 years ago.

I was even once told that the custom was evil and possessive because it removed the wife's former identity, making her hard to search out by people who knew her in the past. Whether this is sexist or not, the fact that a person who has used one name for 50 years, and then changes it, really drops out of sight, and can be a headache professionally. It's less of an issue for someone married young.

I agree, the different last name can be a problem. I find myself always having to explain myself dealing with some brain dead (cable companies, etc) when I call and the account is in one or the other one's last names. I've been stuck having to wait for my wife to call. Though the banks and credit card companies are really no problem as individual names are associated with the people and there is no such legal identity as "mr and mrs OhhShiney." I've yet to be asked for a copy of my marriage license, but have been asked to show pieces of mail addressed to our home address with our names on it. The major institutions and police are all used to all different combinations of names residing at addresses.

At first, I was a bit miffed (about a total of 5 minutes) that my second wife didn't change names, but we are both in our 50s and have had our last name for a long time. She kept hers through her earlier marriages, as did I. Her kids had the choice of taking either her or her ex husband's last names, so her family roster is quite varied.

The ex Mrs. OhhShiney who took my name when she was 20 probably regrets it now, and I kinda feel sorry for her being stuck with my name at 50 when we didn't part ways in the best of terms. Professionally it'll be a pain in the butt for her to change her name to her maiden name if she chooses.

My mother insists on calling my second wife Mrs OhhShiney, and my wife has identified herself as Mrs. OhhShiney in some social contexts. It bothers other people more than others. It really doesn't matter in the long run.

The BIGGEST hassle I've bumped into is the post office change of address forms. If everyone in a home has the same last name, then you only need to fill out one form. If you have different last names, you need to fill out one for each name, and may even have to fill out one for each variation on spelling. (e.g, liz, elizabeth, beth or rebecca, becky, becca etc).

TwoDogs

How about "I feel you're less committed to me if you fail to buy me a $10K diamond for my finger? What's wrong with that? After all, engagement rings are traditional and am I not worth the investment to you?"

I'm being facetious, but doesn't it sound a bit ridiculous when arbitrary symbolism is used as a benchmark for supposed commitment? IOW, isn't the person's ACTUAL commitment to the relationship/marriage itself what counts?

tobio

Yeah: I don't have an engagment ring ;-)
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Conrad

Believe me, I know.

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-AFEH

Runs like Dog

My wife had 5 names w/o mine. When she added mine it just got silly.

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