Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobio
I am looking at things from my OH's POV. But then I think, what about *my* family name? Why are we honouring his family name and not mine? Why am I less committed if I don't take his name? I don't feel "less" committed, I was the one who wanted to get married all along!
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Your making this way too complicated.
You know what taking your husband's name means to him. He has told you, the men on this board have told you. Arguing that that should not be the case will not change things. You have the simple choice to make to take an action to demonstrate committment to your marriage and your man, or not. You will not change anyone's perception of what taking a name means.
Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married?
Yes I do think too much!
I wasn't seeking to change anyone's perceptions. That part you quoted... I find it interesting the take from some men that I am less committed if I don't take his name. But that's the point isn't it: it's a perception. Not fact. An opinion. I'm not less committed. I know that. Alluding to what someone said earlier, I could think he's lnot all in because he didn't make the gesture of showing people I was "taken" by giving me an engagement ring. Or that he's not as interested in giving our children security because he wouldn't marry before our first was born.
I guess it's aligning the meanings such a gesture has between me and him so we're both happy. I've got a few months to mull it over more! Posted via Mobile Device
Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married?
Tobio,
You have some valid points and clearly think too much The thing is your feelings are not really understood by your community. I've come to believe that perception is reality and it comes down to what image you want to project and maintain. Women are slowly becoming the main bread winners and this is clearly changing marriage dynamics.
I don't pretend to have the answers to this question but I'm curious to know why an intelligent independent women such as yourself feels compelled to marry. Why not make a personal commitment to your spouse and be done with it? You are not invested in the traditional aspects of marriage so what benefit do you see?
Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
Your making this way too complicated.
You know what taking your husband's name means to him. He has told you, the men on this board have told you. Arguing that that should not be the case will not change things. You have the simple choice to make to take an action to demonstrate committment to your marriage and your man, or not. You will not change anyone's perception of what taking a name means.
I still find it troubling that Tobio had such grave doubts about the messages he was sending to her... and now he expresses what he's concerned about and.....
Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad
I still find it troubling that Tobio had such grave doubts about the messages he was sending to her... and now he expresses what he's concerned about and.....
I just wish people could see themselves better.
Erm what?
You've confused me there, and you were talking about me!
Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enginerd
Tobio,
You have some valid points and clearly think too much The thing is your feelings are not really understood by your community. I've come to believe that perception is reality and it comes down to what image you want to project and maintain. Women are slowly becoming the main bread winners and this is clearly changing marriage dynamics.
I don't pretend to have the answers to this question but I'm curious to know why an intelligent independent women such as yourself feels compelled to marry. Why not make a personal commitment to your spouse and be done with it? You are not invested in the traditional aspects of marriage so what benefit do you see?
Perception is indeed reality. I don't see it though so much as an image I want to project and maintain. It's not about how I am perceived by "outsiders". It is to him. That is what it is. To me it is about me and him.
The shortened version is that marriage means a lot of things to me. I see it as the "ultimate" state of a relationship. Pledging to each other exclusively forever. I could make the personal commitment you speak of but to me, it would never be "complete." It just wouldn't be the same.
Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobio
Perception is indeed reality. I don't see it though so much as an image I want to project and maintain. It's not about how I am perceived by "outsiders". It is to him. That is what it is. To me it is about me and him.
The shortened version is that marriage means a lot of things to me. I see it as the "ultimate" state of a relationship. Pledging to each other exclusively forever. I could make the personal commitment you speak of but to me, it would never be "complete." It just wouldn't be the same.
Speaking of perception - My wife and I joked about this subject for months. My last name is of Irish descent, her's English. But much of my extended family have a native american name that is roughly equated to 'valor', and I lived with them in the early teenage years. Her family thought that it would be cool if she used this long native american name as a middle name, but there was no real prescedent. There was still some debate about turning her name choice into an statement of heritage alliance of some sort. (Not related, but we gave our daughter my grandmother's name as a middle name, because it represents the gentle spirit of a fawn)
Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married?
Hi Tobio
Taking the man’s name is a symbolic gesture and a social custom and as such, is not subject to the laws of logic. In addition, the meaning for each individual depends on his/her experience and background.
If I remember, you mentioned that your soon-to-be-H grew up in a single parent home and that he may have had an unhappy childhood. For him having a family with his name may be more important to him than the average man.
He may feel that putting his "imprint" on the family is an outward sign of maturing as a man and being present in his family’s life. This is in direct contradiction to his father who gave him a name but was not present.
I have learned to pick my battles in my marriage. What helped me was that I had a better understanding of my H thinking, which is unique to him and unique on a gender basis as well.
I try to put myself in his shoes and see things from his point of view and then I ask him to check my perception. If something is very important to him then I make sure he gets what he needs even if I don’t agree.
The important thing to do is take what you know and what you are learning about your soon-to-be-H and use it to see things from his point of view. When you think you figured things out, then ask him to see if your perception is correct.
On the important issues, don’t stand on principle but what will make you both the happiest by compromising. Sometimes you will give more sometimes he will.
You do seem to think a great deal and you may make a big deal out of small relatively unimportant things. Small irritations in a relationship are like grains of sand; they wear away the patina of love.
Don’t let that happen, smooth things over and let the small irritations wash away. Not ignore but just don’t give these things more importance than they deserve.
Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine602
Hi Tobio
Taking the man’s name is a symbolic gesture and a social custom and as such, is not subject to the laws of logic. In addition, the meaning for each individual depends on his/her experience and background.
If I remember, you mentioned that your soon-to-be-H grew up in a single parent home and that he may have had an unhappy childhood. For him having a family with his name may be more important to him than the average man.
He may feel that putting his "imprint" on the family is an outward sign of maturing as a man and being present in his family’s life. This is in direct contradiction to his father who gave him a name but was not present.
I have learned to pick my battles in my marriage. What helped me was that I had a better understanding of my H thinking, which is unique to him and unique on a gender basis as well.
I try to put myself in his shoes and see things from his point of view and then I ask him to check my perception. If something is very important to him then I make sure he gets what he needs even if I don’t agree.
The important thing to do is take what you know and what you are learning about your soon-to-be-H and use it to see things from his point of view. When you think you figured things out, then ask him to see if your perception is correct.
On the important issues, don’t stand on principle but what will make you both the happiest by compromising. Sometimes you will give more sometimes he will.
You do seem to think a great deal and you may make a big deal out of small relatively unimportant things. Small irritations in a relationship are like grains of sand; they wear away the patina of love.
Don’t let that happen, smooth things over and let the small irritations wash away. Not ignore but just don’t give these things more importance than they deserve.
You weren't going to be pleased until he bent to your way.
Now, you have a chance to show him that the relationship is mutual and that both of you will bend to commit to each other.
And, you're showing him your ass.
His feelings are unimportant and he'll just have to "live with it"
Be careful. You will reap what you sow.
I like the bluntness.
You have got me very wrong though. You know that belief that is often bandied round the forums, whereby men want to solve women's problems but women simply want to be heard and understood? Oversimplified but you get the gist?
All I wanted was to explore how I felt and feel that my belief that my name is just as valuable and meaningful to me as his is to him, was respected and understood. That he held that feeling up equal to his.
I was never going to make him bend to my will. I'm not like that. You would laugh about that if you knew me, but that's part of posting on a forum. You interpret what you read in your own way.
I will say that the part you said about showing that the relationship is mutual and the other bending? I have spent since March bending round him, working to understand why he acted like such a tool when he had his dalluance with the woman at work. I bend round him when he talked to me like ****, didn't know how he felt anymore, lied and contacted her when he pledged NC. When I threw him out because of his lies and he wanted to come back. I bent round forgiving him and worked damn hard to move this relationship on. So say what you want but I'd say all in all I have pretty much showed him I will "bend" to meet him. Posted via Mobile Device
Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married?
Tobio, there is a concept in marriage of leader and follower. Tradition has it that women drop the surname and become the follower of the husband.
"Most" of the time marriages go better when the husband becomes the leader. Society seems to want to point in that direction. Of course the man then must actually BE the leader. Often disharmony comes around because both parties want to be the leader. Or the follower. Or the couple elects that the wife should lead, but the husband is the breadwinner. Now there is a conflict.
Anyway, I too think you are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be. I would have given up my name if my wife was going to be the main money earner in the family. It's not that big a deal to me really.
Re: What did it mean to you for your wife to take your surname when you married? 
The thing is your feelings are not really understood by your community. I've come to believe that perception is reality and it comes down to what image you want to project and maintain. Women are slowly becoming the main bread winners and this is clearly changing marriage dynamics. 
