Logically how can love exist? - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 10:58 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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My semi retirement involves full time study, a complete career change, as well as getting more free time in the air and maybe become an instructor. I want to pursue my passions, and having a girlfriend feels like a burden.
If that is true, then I strongly encourage you to not have a girlfriend. As it turns out, my boyfriend, then fiancé, then husband - and now ex-husband - always felt that our relationship was a burden. I'm not sure why he couldn't be honest with himself and with me about the fact that he didn't actually enjoy being in a committed relationship. Perhaps it was family or social pressure. I also know he enjoyed having the perks that came along with having a wife to manage the daily realities of his life along with his social and family obligations. But being in a monogamous relationship, one with give and take and boundaries and a need to consider someone other than himself, was just a burden to him. I was a burden to him. Our son was a burden to him. And, gradually, he got tired of pretending that wasn't the case, and stopped bothering to do anything that might have concealed that fact.

No one wants to feel like, be treated like, a burden, or an afterthought, or an obligation, or an annoyance by someone who professes to love them. A relationship where one party feels the other is a burdensome obligation is just a recipe for hurt, anger and resentment in both parties.

You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view. - Obi Wan Kenobi
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post #17 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-05-2017, 10:14 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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You don't seem very self aware. First of all, sounds like all your motivation in your life so far has been about acquiring financial stability, yet now you have it and you don't seem any happier or less worried about it. Is this really what is bothering you? How about stop flailing and try to really learn about yourself. For instance do you know there are very happy people in this world who didn't push to be as well off as you are? Some are quite poor. Why do you think that is? Maybe there is more to life then you are seeing. Again what are you really asking here? It seems to me you are saying what you have been doing is not making you happy, and it has very little with this woman, and more to do with you.
I think I could contrast our life to this.. we're not dirt poor.. but would be looked upon as poor by those earning 6 figures / the higher class lifestyle.... We are happy.. very thankful for the jobs we have.. knowing we'll have to work till retirement... but it's OK.. we have each other, we have our family.. we enjoy each other along the way.. coming home to each other.. .. that's what makes it all worth it.. We also don't want to slave for financial gain.. life is too short..

All with @sokillme 's posts.. it's about giving of yourself, wanting to share your everything with another....this is never a burden but a joy.. if I heard a man even suggest I was a burden.. I'd have to leave him.. I wouldn't be able to live that down.. just saying..
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post #18 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-05-2017, 10:37 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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If that is true, then I strongly encourage you to not have a girlfriend. As it turns out, my boyfriend, then fiancé, then husband - and now ex-husband - always felt that our relationship was a burden. I'm not sure why he couldn't be honest with himself and with me about the fact that he didn't actually enjoy being in a committed relationship. Perhaps it was family or social pressure. I also know he enjoyed having the perks that came along with having a wife to manage the daily realities of his life along with his social and family obligations. But being in a monogamous relationship, one with give and take and boundaries and a need to consider someone other than himself, was just a burden to him. I was a burden to him. Our son was a burden to him. And, gradually, he got tired of pretending that wasn't the case, and stopped bothering to do anything that might have concealed that fact.

No one wants to feel like, be treated like, a burden, or an afterthought, or an obligation, or an annoyance by someone who professes to love them. A relationship where one party feels the other is a burdensome obligation is just a recipe for hurt, anger and resentment in both parties.
This is truth.. although I never felt a burden in a Romantic relationship.. I have felt this way growing up under my step Mother...I hated it so bad..just wanted to crawl under a rock.. run away... I have issues with feeling like a burden-to this day..... I would walk and never talk to someone again if I got wind of them feeling THAT way....

I don't care if we fight... I can forgive many things.. but NEVER the feelings that come along with another feeling what @Rowan has described here.. that's just very ugly, demeaning...it should never be with someone you love..
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post #19 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-05-2017, 11:24 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

If your girlfriend is this nice, sweet woman that you say she is, you are doing her a real disservice by leading her on when it's apparent you don't want the burden of having a girlfriend and the sacrifices, commitment and compromises that it entails.

Be a man and let this poor girl go find a man that want to be in a healthy relationship who is not burdened with doubt. You are being selfish by stringing her along.
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post #20 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 01:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

Guess I'm just cold as ice nowadays
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post #21 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 03:35 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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Guess I'm just cold as ice nowadays


Yep


Many in your position put themselves in the victim chair and then react and say f u to the world.

I've been completely closed off too but at a very young age and I now realize I was probably clinically depressed.

Then, after I gave up on others I met a girl. And she was very sweet. And we ended up dating 6 years and have been married 28 more.

So... yeah... I know how to do what you're doing.

But I was saved by a girl who was worth risking leaving my isolation for.


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post #22 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 03:48 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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Guess I'm just cold as ice nowadays
Not cold enough.

Logically, this is easy (to me at least). So I wonder if you are letting your emotions have too much say.

1. You know the change you want to make in your life.
2. You know what love is, and the risks with this girl, but you want her presumably because of her character in part, which includes her being into you, not your money.
3. You've discussed it with her and she says she will support you.

So make the change. If you lose her over it, doesn't it mean you never really had her? And while that is not what you want, wouldn't you rather know?
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post #23 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

At present sure, I'm sure she would be happy with whatever decision but the future? I don't like to feel like I'm wasting time, not to mention I like to be a man of responsibility, if she's to be my future life partner I have to be able to provide. Pursuing my hobbies and starting a potential new business is high risk. Do I really want to put her through that? Well... its her decision and responsibility in the end right? Not mine.

Guess that's the thing with taking responsibility for other people's decisions, it's imprisonment. Also leads to co-dependency. Meh, guess she's made her choice, I just have to respect that, and let her deal with the consequences of her own decisions.
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post #24 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 05:26 PM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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At present sure, I'm sure she would be happy with whatever decision but the future? I don't like to feel like I'm wasting time, not to mention I like to be a man of responsibility, if she's to be my future life partner I have to be able to provide. Pursuing my hobbies and starting a potential new business is high risk. Do I really want to put her through that? Well... its her decision and responsibility in the end right? Not mine.

Guess that's the thing with taking responsibility for other people's decisions, it's imprisonment. Also leads to co-dependency. Meh, guess she's made her choice, I just have to respect that, and let her deal with the consequences of her own decisions.
Well, it is her decision. But I am presuming your lifestyle change includes a financial strategy that will see you in reduced but still viable financial circumstances, and I assume you have a plan B if it doesn't work out. If that's the case, what is it you won't be able to provide?
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post #25 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

True, guess I also doubt her "non-materialism", all I have is words and some action at the moment and although she has earned some benefit of the doubt, trust is not fully established. It's going to be ups and downs, even my first business didn't come without cost to my marriage, 84 hour work weeks and I didn't have time for her, and the only time I could squeeze was for our daughter. I don't know what the future will hold but I'm certain of sacrifices. She's a very simple lady, and she has been sheltered, so I question her strength as well.

My plan Bs are to sustain the downtimes of plan A, but not to sustain myself long-term and definitely not to provide for a family again, I don't have unlimited properties to sell. I'm willing to risk going broke and bankrupt to pursue my dreams, but for that... well, I guess that's another reason why girlfriend feels like a burden to me.
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post #26 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 11:23 PM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

I always enjoy this scene from the film "Hurt Locker"

Staff Sergeant William James: [Speaking to his son] You love playing with that. You love playing with all your stuffed animals. You love your mommy, your daddy, your nature pajamas. You love everything, don't ya? Yeah. But you know what, buddy? As you get older... some of the things that you love might not seem so special anymore, you know? Like your Jack-in-a-Box. Maybe you'll realize it's just a piece of tin and a stuffed animal, but the older you get, the fewer things you really love, and by the time you get to my age, maybe it's only one or two things. With me, I think it's one.
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post #27 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 05:43 PM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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The only love I've come to acknowledge and cherish is the love I share with me and my daughter, but even then I know it has its limits and is conditional, just like the "love" I have for my own immediate family. If it isn't pure, it isn't love. That's my belief. Did I love ex-wife? Did she love me in return? Meh, she only loved me because what I could give her, and me her - once the troubles hit all love is conditional. Nothing is for free, life is no fairytale.

So I live my life hardened, content with the freedom and none of the expectations of "love". My finances and my daughter's future is secured. No woman will threaten it.

Until now...

My recent girlfriend is defying my reality and belief systems, and I struggle to believe it, but I know that she believes it. She passes every test, tests that 99% of women I've dated failed. It was designed to make them fail, to keep myself justifying my emotional unavailability. Yet she passed. For a while it was great, come what may, I didn't care, just live life right?

Wrong...

Right now I am going to make a decision this year for semi-retirement, I'm finished pushing for the greens. I have my investments, I have my success. I don't need my income anymore, I am changing my lifestyle to pursue hobbies and passions. Which means... a lot less money. Will girlfriend cash out? Who knows, but when I have a risk, I like to deal with it head-on, remove or mitigate. Wait... this is a human being we are talking about!

Logical solution: Remove

I'm on the down-spiral, and I don't know anymore. I don't want to have her weighting on my decisions to pursue a new lifestyle. She gives me no pressure directly, but the sole fact that she's my girlfriend pressures me immensely. If the solution is not logical, if I am to stay with her, how do I deal with these thoughts?
I might be wrong but isn't this post more a "thinking out loud" type rather than seeking a specific solution? I would have thought (and this is arguably the naive perspective) there might be just as much joy (or probably more) to share the experiences and fruits of your successes with someone you love or feel close to. If she passes all your "tests" why not give her a chance?

You don't need to marry her so I don't see how she can be a "threat" to your acquired assets. It's ok to fall in love once in a while...
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post #28 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 12:06 PM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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I might be wrong but isn't this post more a "thinking out loud" type rather than seeking a specific solution? I would have thought (and this is arguably the naive perspective) there might be just as much joy (or probably more) to share the experiences and fruits of your successes with someone you love or feel close to. If she passes all your "tests" why not give her a chance?

You don't need to marry her so I don't see how she can be a "threat" to your acquired assets. It's ok to fall in love once in a while...
IF she specifically is hoping, wanting, investing herself INTO HIM and hoping to marry, have children, build a life...then HE is wasting her time..

She deserves to know how he is struggling with this so she can asses whether she wants to keep going down this road, or get out & find someone more compatible with her dreams..
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post #29 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 01:04 PM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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IF she specifically is hoping, wanting, investing herself INTO HIM and hoping to marry, have children, build a life...then HE is wasting her time..

She deserves to know how he is struggling with this so she can asses whether she wants to keep going down this road, or get out & find someone more compatible with her dreams..


That's true. On the other hand, none of us know how the road is going to end, once we start out on a journey. Nor is it particularly reasonable to commit to all this stuff right from the start as if it's a contractual obligation. It doesn't seem like he has decided in any case in which case this is no different than any other beginning of a relationship, with some doubts. Which doesn't seem especially abnormal to me.


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post #30 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 01:19 PM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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That's true. On the other hand, none of us know how the road is going to end, once we start out on a journey. Nor is it particularly reasonable to commit to all this stuff right from the start as if it's a contractual obligation. It doesn't seem like he has decided in any case in which case this is no different than any other beginning of a relationship, with some doubts. Which doesn't seem especially abnormal to me.

It's when he KNOWS she is getting in deep and wants what he is not sure he wants.. he should come forth with honesty.. I always KNEW I wanted the marrying type.. if a guy wasn't this. I would not want to waste my time.. but true.. today, fewer & fewer women care.
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