Logically how can love exist? - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Logically how can love exist?

The only love I've come to acknowledge and cherish is the love I share with me and my daughter, but even then I know it has its limits and is conditional, just like the "love" I have for my own immediate family. If it isn't pure, it isn't love. That's my belief. Did I love ex-wife? Did she love me in return? Meh, she only loved me because what I could give her, and me her - once the troubles hit all love is conditional. Nothing is for free, life is no fairytale.

So I live my life hardened, content with the freedom and none of the expectations of "love". My finances and my daughter's future is secured. No woman will threaten it.

Until now...

My recent girlfriend is defying my reality and belief systems, and I struggle to believe it, but I know that she believes it. She passes every test, tests that 99% of women I've dated failed. It was designed to make them fail, to keep myself justifying my emotional unavailability. Yet she passed. For a while it was great, come what may, I didn't care, just live life right?

Wrong...

Right now I am going to make a decision this year for semi-retirement, I'm finished pushing for the greens. I have my investments, I have my success. I don't need my income anymore, I am changing my lifestyle to pursue hobbies and passions. Which means... a lot less money. Will girlfriend cash out? Who knows, but when I have a risk, I like to deal with it head-on, remove or mitigate. Wait... this is a human being we are talking about!

Logical solution: Remove

I'm on the down-spiral, and I don't know anymore. I don't want to have her weighting on my decisions to pursue a new lifestyle. She gives me no pressure directly, but the sole fact that she's my girlfriend pressures me immensely. If the solution is not logical, if I am to stay with her, how do I deal with these thoughts?
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post #2 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 11:31 PM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

True love doesn't fear that it won't be equitable. Yes it's OK to have conditions, mine are that I won't accept abuse. Look relationships are like anything else in life, no risk, no reward. Nothing great in life comes without risk, the same holds true with love. You have to decide if the risk is worth it. Right now you just sound like you are afraid, and I mean no disrespect by saying that. It's understandable after being burned. Again, like any other fear you need to acknowledge it and decide if you are going to press on or "remove" as you say. One thing to remember is you did survive what your ex did to you, why don't you think you could survive it again.

One last thing I will say is when you really love someone, like the marring kind of love, you want to give yourself to them. Don't marry this woman unless you feel this way. Do you believe your hobbies are going to make you feel fulfilled or do you need to spend your life with someone else? I ask this because if hobbies are enough and you aren't willing to give yourself, meaning your safety, then it's better you don't give her the impression you are. It's also better for her to find someone who willing to give this much, because this is what is required to have a happy marriage. Both people have to feel this way.

Last edited by sokillme; 01-02-2017 at 11:36 PM.
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post #3 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 11:33 PM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

Tests?

Is that a word that should be used in building a healthy relationship?

If title alone is enough to apply weight, do you really feel ready for such a commitment?

It should feel like weightlessness, not weighted.
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post #4 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 12:03 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

Love and logic?

LOL!

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #5 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

Just dont want to waste anymore time. I spent my youth working my ass off while under the ball and chain so I could provide for my family. Now I'm in a position where I can spoil myself. The 84 hour weeks and multi-million dollar deals, I want to leave it all behind. At least for now. I want my 30s to be a vacation, to do what I've always wanted. This is my mid-life crisis!!!

Yet I can't seem to not feel pressured to keep pushing, like a knife at my back driving me to greed, the sense of responsibility to provide. It just feels so weird having her around when I'm consciously about to make a decision to go poorer. This is the weight I am feeling. She's not causing it, not directly, she's only been sweet to me. This seems to be my problem.
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post #6 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 12:26 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

WOW!

This deserves two..

WOW!
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post #7 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 12:56 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

You don't seem very self aware. First of all, sounds like all your motivation in your life so far has been about acquiring financial stability, yet now you have it and you don't seem any happier or less worried about it. Is this really what is bothering you? How about stop flailing and try to really learn about yourself. For instance do you know there are very happy people in this world who didn't push to be as well off as you are? Some are quite poor. Why do you think that is? Maybe there is more to life then you are seeing. Again what are you really asking here? It seems to me you are saying what you have been doing is not making you happy, and it has very little with this woman, and more to do with you.
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post #8 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 08:31 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

If you're in your (late?) 30's and contemplating semi retirement, depending on hobbies, money burn rate could be an issue.

I know many people from tech firms who "retired" after the dot com boom of 2000 and did the sailboat or what not, within a few years they mostly went back to work, mostly from boredom but also financial reality.

If your idea of semi retirement is 40 hour work weeks that's a different issue
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post #9 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 08:41 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

This seems like 2 different issues: do you stop working, and a relationship question.

In a way the relationship question is easier. Are you both happy when you are with her? If so, then no matter what happens in the future you are not wasting time.

As far as quitting your job - that is really a psychology question for you. Can you be happy without feeling like you are actively contributing? Or can you contribute to society in some non-work way?



Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomDude View Post
Just dont want to waste anymore time. I spent my youth working my ass off while under the ball and chain so I could provide for my family. Now I'm in a position where I can spoil myself. The 84 hour weeks and multi-million dollar deals, I want to leave it all behind. At least for now. I want my 30s to be a vacation, to do what I've always wanted. This is my mid-life crisis!!!

Yet I can't seem to not feel pressured to keep pushing, like a knife at my back driving me to greed, the sense of responsibility to provide. It just feels so weird having her around when I'm consciously about to make a decision to go poorer. This is the weight I am feeling. She's not causing it, not directly, she's only been sweet to me. This seems to be my problem.
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post #10 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 04:12 PM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

Sounds kind of like awkward bragging. "I'm retiring in my 30's because of my business prowess and million dollar deals."

It's awkward because many of us older than you have travelled different paths, and many feel rewarded in ways you don't appear to be.

I don't mean to be directly harsh - and if you did earn that much that quickly you will take this as harsh - but you sound insecure.

I think you might benefit from hanging around with some people who specifically chose lower income, but respectable, professions to see what makes them tick. Teachers, physical or occupational therapists, yoga teachers. You can find them around town or the local library.

You will doubtless find people who are upset about finances... but beyond that you might find people who are rewarded by the relationships they build and maintain, or by the things they do for a living that they believe in.

If you start to surround yourself with people with different values - other than money and business success - you might get some hint of why they "aren't as successful" as you - and why it doesn't bother them.

I was on a path to "success" but benefited from vicarious experience seeing millionaire (++ probably) families - and the fact that money didn't prevent them from having huge problems. I also saw firsthand the consequences of success in business - big bank but divorce, estranged children, isolation, and ultimately emptiness in many ways. This is what I hear in your brief post.

I dropped out of this at a relatively young age and earn a modest salary (still upper 3-5% family income) but see my kids and stopped traveling. I questioned my decision over the years, of course, but I would have missed what actually is best in life had I focused on business success. You're still young enough to "get it"

Anyway, that's my $.02 and about what it's worth.


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post #11 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 05:10 PM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

Read this article and pay particular attention to item #4.

6 Harsh Truths That Will Make You a Better Person

SE

Learning Stuff on TAM I should have picked up in High School
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post #12 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

When I was young I didn't care about success, what drove me was my daughter. But now that I have enough to set aside for her and myself, I want to go back to being happy go-lucky me!

My semi retirement involves full time study, a complete career change, as well as getting more free time in the air and maybe become an instructor. I want to pursue my passions, and having a girlfriend feels like a burden.

She says she will support me in whatever decision I make, why can't I believe that?
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post #13 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 12:01 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

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I want to pursue my passions, and having a girlfriend feels like a burden.
Then don't have a girlfriend. I guess I don't get what you are asking. Seems to me like you are just posting that you are afraid, again with good reason since you have been burned once. Maybe you need to talk to someone about your fear.
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post #14 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 08:42 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
Then don't have a girlfriend. I guess I don't get what you are asking. Seems to me like you are just posting that you are afraid, again with good reason since you have been burned once. Maybe you need to talk to someone about your fear.


I fully agree. If you can't pursue your passions - and modify them so you aren't completely self absorbed - but instead make them about you and her - then be honest.

Let her know you don't want to share and be an available partner. Tell her you want it to be all about - and only about - you.

Bottom line - if you've already made these decisions, then the only thing to do with integrity is let her go - actually it is a requirement if you have any respect for her. In that case you've chosen a path many would consider narcissistic - and many TAM members will tell you the extreme pain a narcissist causes for others. I say that objectively - not in a judgmental sense.


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post #15 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 10:21 AM
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Re: Logically how can love exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomDude View Post
When I was young I didn't care about success, what drove me was my daughter. But now that I have enough to set aside for her and myself, I want to go back to being happy go-lucky me!

My semi retirement involves full time study, a complete career change, as well as getting more free time in the air and maybe become an instructor. I want to pursue my passions, and having a girlfriend feels like a burden.

She says she will support me in whatever decision I make, why can't I believe that?
It actually does not matter what you believe, and it's not logical to assume anything. Her actions will demonstrate the truth - all you need to do is observe, and then act on the information in the appropriate way. If she isn't a burden, then I'd suggest you work on your perspective, and see her as unusual, special, and compatible with your values.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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