If it helps you at all, in my experience, both of you will go through various changes and phases over time. I am 37 and my wife is 40, we have been married a little over 12 years and have been together for 15 years. There have been times when our relationship has been 50/50 and we are both happy with each other. There have also been times when it has been 70/30 (me giving 70 sometimes, and her giving 70 sometimes).
There have been phases when life sucked for me personally and i was a complete ass and difficult to live with and sometimes when she hasn't been the most pleasant person to be around as well.
Through it all however, there has never, ever been a doubt that we loved each other and overall I have been very blessed with an outstanding marriage and wife and she would say the same thing.
Instead of playing games with your wife and getting into some form of a p*****g contest with her over changes you may not like at the time, have you sat her down and asked her what these changes are about and why they are happening? She may be doing something to try and bring you two closer or make you happy, not realizing its bugging the s**t out of you.
You have a long way to go and if you do truly love her and she is the one who makes you feel safe and at home when the rest of the world is kicking you and you could never imagine living your life without her by your side and your family intact, at some point you have got to stop playing games with each other and really get better at communicating.
When you both figure that out, and the games stop, I think that is when you will stop pining for the glory days of "being a player" and thinking that she p***ywhipped you.
There is no other woman in the world I want to be with or could imagine waking up next to even in the worst of times we have had. And at 37, I am still in good shape and she is very beautiful and very fit for a 40 year old woman. So I think I have that in common with you at least. I am 6'1" and weigh 170 and she is 5'8" and weighs 138 and she is just as beautiful without makeup as she is all made up.
I would have to read the rest of your posts, but I think maybe you are just misunderstood a little and maybe blow things a little out of proportion because you enjoy riling people up. I was the same way throughout my 20s.
Okay, to be honest, being 'whupped' ain't half bad. Sure, sometimes we might need to come to a site like this and pretend that we're in control, but underneath all that craziness in our wives is a secret that few men ever find. It's nice in here, and if she is happy, all is bliss. The dark side has milk and cookies, too.
But on a serious note, its hard for me to relate to some of the dynamics in your relationship. Hey, I'm the guy who took advantage of the earthquake a couple of years ago to go to the microwaves in the cafeteria, minus the long lines, so I could eat my sandwich with melted cheese. Filled my cup half full so the soda wouldn't slosh out of the cup while I ate. I'm practical, and just don't get worked up over a crisis. So I develop a nervous tic when reading about your adventures. Sorry.
The long and the short of this obtuse reply is that I'm not sure if you enjoy the conflict and manufacture it to that end at times, but if you bring in a certain tense atmosphere to the relationship, very few women can keep up with it forever, even if they appear to contribute to it. I'm not picking on women in general - hey, most men can't, either. I hope you give her occasional safe periods where its 100% her and her needs. Otherwise, resentment can grow deep while you are still interpreting it as the normal back and forth.
PRIDE?! WTF?! You think I f--king enjoy it everytime she rips me apart with her tears?! Is that what you really f--king think of me?!
As for laughing over everything ITS MY COPING MECHANISM and it has been since the days left on the streets. Laughter preserved my sanity, though not all
But I can see how I can be misunderstood bc of that... BAH!
You were there when I first joined, you know how manipulative and selfish she can be. As for her security yes I thought that this was the culprit with her high sex drive but guess what? It NEVER changes no matter how much reassurance I gave her, she just ends up demanding more and more refusing to be patient!
And since when did I proclaim that "I'm here and she's not, therefore she's doing nothing"?! Even my last thread fully admits that she was the initiator of our little compromise this xmas. But as for the blood of the streets, no one can help me in that.
Life is always changing.
She has changed, you can change too.
You say you can't change. It's not true. You can change, but you don't want to.
I don't know your wife, but I know you a little bit. You are not stable, and you are complicated. Can't blame you, you are still too young.
You want a bad girl, because a bad girl is more thrilling. But I tell you honestly, a bad girl is not good for a happy marriage. Just like a bad man is not good for a happy marriage.
You seem addicted to the conflict. You hate it but can't give it up.
Same with the p*ssing contest behaviour.
The thing is, based on what you write your wife isn't much better.
You're in a death spiral.
All the crap you come out with on here? Yes, it's real, and it's serious, but it's symptoms.
Just like a huge spiking fever is a symptom of malaria, all the bad stuff you describe is a symptom of something else.
What you seem to be doing is trying to keep the fever down (some of the time), whilst doing nothing to deal with the underlying infection. You need to root out the mental equivalents of the Plasmodium falciparum you have rattling round inside you.
Unless you (and, based on your writings, your wife) BOTH decide to identify and TREAT the causes of these behaviours, just trying to stop is not going to work.
Most of the best minds on TAM, male and female, have given you plenty of advice. If it ain't worked now, it ain't going to. By analogy, TAM is the home medical guide and medicine cupboard. What YOU need is a hospital, not the home medical guide.
RD, I don't post in your threads because from what you've said, it seems that both you and your wife thrive on gaming each other. Nothing is ever what it seems on the surface. So the likelihood of offering any useful comments is slim. Add to that the fact that there's no way to keep track of your current status, what's been done in the past, or any sign of a game plan and follow through...
On the other hand, I am sympathetic to the "oversexed partner" thing, and feel like too many people give you grief simply because you're the guy who's wife wants sex too much. I might feel different even if she just wanted sex daily. But if you ask me, a spouse that wants/needs sex as much as your wife does (regardless of gender) has got some bad wiring, and until that's taken care of, good luck with the rest of your issues.
That brings me to my last point... Some people's situations lend themselves to being supported in an Internet forum. Often they need some sympathetic ears, a few words of wisdom, and they're good to go. Sometimes, they even need a gentle slap upside the head to wake them up, and a forum can be good at calling them on their BS.
Other couples... They need a lot of intense, one on one help. Both people need to have their defenses stripped away so the underlying problems can be resolved, and that would be a painful and difficult process even for a professional therapist, I'd imagine. And both people need to buy into that healing process, or it's wasted effort. Random advice by well meaning strangers is like peeing on a forest fire. We might feel good for having done it, but the benefit to anyone else will have evaporated before it hits the ground.
Guess which group I think you and your wife fall into?
I hope you give her occasional safe periods where its 100% her and her needs.
Only when I don't think so much and end up stressed, aka holidays. Then when it gets back to normal the missus complains, but I guess she has a right to.
Some people become moody at a certain time of the year.
Think carefully, is it a routine for you?
Nah, it's just been this way for the last 2 years.
I’d offer some advice but it’d be pointless as you’ve never taken any advice anyone has ever offered you because you know best and all that.
Theory and application mate, application I need more advice with then theory.
Unless you (and, based on your writings, your wife) BOTH decide to identify and TREAT the causes of these behaviours, just trying to stop is not going to work.
You're right, we've only been attacking the symptons, not dealing with our issues at our core. As of right now we've only begun a "new routine" to prevent further infighting this xmas, and so far things have been quite peaceful. But I know it won't last once the holidays are over and it's back to normal.
Guess we need to dwell deeper. I guess she's right that I shouldn't shut her off from my own issues, and she's been very understanding so far. We've re-opened our communications channel since our 2nd last little talk... however she refuses counselling. I don't think she will ever do it, we both have skeletons in our closets but we only trust each other with it (and that's if we're not fighting each other), not to mention she thinks she's "fixed".
However, truth is, come to think of it... hell this was years ago, I knew she had issues even from the first time we had sex. She was skilled, willing, very talented and experienced but it just still felt rather empty. It was only after continual reassurance, time together, and love did she really open up, and really blew my mind.
I guess now it seems she has indeed, closed off, and treats sex like what she used to do, and even worse, how she used to see it in her own past before I met her; she gauged her own worth by her sexuality. Ironically, since marriage I seem have be doing the opposite of what I used to do, I've been turning her down, spending time in my man-cave, treating her like sh-t. Meh... guess I can't really blame her can I?
We might feel good for having done it, but the benefit to anyone else will have evaporated before it hits the ground.
Fine, it's decided, I'm going to do my part and to hell with what may happen. I'm not going to ever treat her this way again, no more games against her, no more rejecting her, no more neglecting her. If she plays more games against me I will show her that she's going to get what she wants; a man who isn't going to back down nor is he going to entertain her sinister urges by playing the games back.
It may not be enough, but the least I can do is to show her there is a better way (and ironically, she has already started), and help her feel loved that she never felt before in her own past which I actually used to do. But can I count on the fellas here for support through this?
I am merely in my mid-20s, love, marriage, children, even a legitimate career is all new to me. I may have had many experiences but not like this. I can be stubborn, but just remind me of what I said here today.
It's the way you whine about not getting your fantasy's filled that make you less of a man. Have you ever had any real adversity in your life?
Hey RD! Just reading through some of your other posts to see other areas where you (the whiney wife... like I call my husband) and me (the sex starved husband... bc I and your wife are in the same boat as many MEN on this board) could help each other understand our spouses side.
You mentioned routine sex as a reason you dont want it with her anymore. Does she know that you think of it as routine? Do you think its routine simply bc its only with her or is it a "same position every time" routine, or is it same thing different day routine? If she knows you dont like the way she likes it, has she gotten the anger out of her system at that disparity? I ask this last one bc my husband told me years ago that he hated the one position I could have an assured "O" in. He started only having sex with me IF we didnt do it that way for any stretch of the sexual encounter.
One reason I broke up with him 3 times, bc I could see my needs were meaningless and bothersome to him. I went back everytime bc he started having sex with me again for a while until he thought I was comfortable again. Now, I have learned to play games to get sex (ie keep talking, incessantly if need be so that he will have sex to shut me up) and I hate them, never did them in my life before and yet its been the only way to get a sliver of my way on rare occassions... SO, along that line, perhaps you inadvertently "taught" your wife that she needed to play the games with you too? My husband would never think or admit that he taught me to play games, bc Im the one with all the issues. He thinks he is just in a marriage with a woman he was once attracted to in all ways who has turned magically, all by herself into some bitter, sex fiend who talks all the time! That is not who I am, its who I became with him out of neccessity bc when Im quiet EVERYTHING is his way only.
My husband is like you and describes me the way you describe your wife... only from my end he is a whiny diva who is only happy... scratch that, only mildly content if he can just do his thing when where and how he wants without considering anyone else but himself. He goes beyond the whining and actually gets physically aggressive when in diva mode. Most of the time if I dont say a word to him he thinks things are great bc Im not talking to him, talking period, and he just goes about his life as if I wasnt even there to bother him. He thinks that he wouldnt have any problems if I werent around (Im speaking of when times arent good). What he fails to see is that if he doesnt address the issues that are from within him, they will resurface again with someone else, perhaps in different ways, but they will come up again. I think he knows this on some vsceral level, so he just tries to implement his control of our time and activities to keep things from coming up... which "inadvertently" causes them to come up, which he then thinks I did bc he was "trying to keep things from coming up." Crazy circle.
So, if you and wifey are watching tv together, do you ever instigate or "play" with her which ends up with her being mad at you (which was your unconcious goal of getting her to want to NOT have sex with you)? Do you sometimes try to do things that you think will get her to NOT want to have sex with you? If your wife is like me, pushing buttons like that will not make her not want to have sex with you, it will make her want to do something that will irritate you, since you irritated her. Just curious if you have this game...
RD, another woman here, but yeaah your posts are exhausting. Like so many others have said, you and your wife play games with eachother. You say you get off on them, but most people would end up divorcing over it because it's too much, all the time. It's ridiculously toxic and while it may be fun for a 24 hour period, living your entire life that way = boring/lame/annoying/exhausting.
I think you create a lot of problems. I think you do this so you can't be happy. I think you don't want to be happy. I think if you get to a point of normal, you sabotage it yourself because you prefer to crazy unhealthy dynamic to a good and healthy one. You said yourself that you view vulnerability in a relationship as weak. But a marraige is ALL about that. Being vulnerable w/ your partner, sharing feelings, being happy together, not being afraid to say how you feel.
I think you have low self-esteem. And you project what you feel onto your wife. How you feel inside is how you treat her on the outside. I don't think you are happy with yourself. And it's a damn shame. Get happy!
So you and your wife do this dance constantly.
Honestly, I can see you guys ending up in a bitter divorce. And you repeating this cycle with the next one...
It's not really 24/7 but it's often enough during the year I guess. It's more a rollercoaster, goes up really high and passionate then goes down really low and tiring and annoying.
Whether we like it or not, we're used to it. But at least now we've acknowledged that recently. As for the cycle, yes, it seems to be in a loop, even if I do try to fix it. Now we're going upwards but guess we both wonder when it's going to go downwards.
My counsellor just tells me that we seem to be spiralling, but whether we spiral up or down is up to us. Meh, we'll see how it goes this xmas.
Yes she knows I don't like routine, and I've spelt it out for her. It's the same thing multiple times on different days and she has trouble taking no for an answer. It's not the sex itself that is the problem it's the lack of buildup, her demands, and the fact I simply don't get turned on a simple naked body - naked while bits covered up to tease me however, big difference and it's SO simple!
And I don't like a woman all over me I like her to make it difficult for me. Also, AFEH mentioned my wife needs to learn boundaries but she's the type of women who believes she should get what she wants when she wants whenever possible and whenever she feels she has the right; which in this case, she has the right of a wife. I don't know how to enforce boundaries without being an ass at the same time with my wife.
And yes I've been guilty of making her mad so that I can have my space for the night from time to time. So I guess her demands are a way of irritating me? =/
Anyways in either case I'm disciplining myself not to play games or play back for a short term experiment to see how this goes.