Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce? - Page 8 - Talk About Marriage
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post #106 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 07:00 PM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

This is all 'nice to have' - thing is I can outsource it. All of it.

Can't outsource ANY of the stuff makes M2 an exceptional companion:
- Playfulness
- Sense of humor
- Conversational skills

Being good at the 'mechanics' of life is great - but - as your familial income rises - it becomes less critical. And hey - if it makes your partner feel loved - great. If not, best you don't expect much halo effect from it.


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If that's the case I should have me a harem...

I can do DIY esp landscaping, light construction, trim carpentry, painting, and low voltage stuff better than many professional crews, esp painting.

I do all laundry, some cooking, and heavy duty house cleaning like carpet washing.

It's all about perception, not results, with some people.
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post #107 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 12:34 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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The dynamic below is exactly what drives the related divorce statistics.
I think what drives divorce is that marriage needs two partners who are both willing to try and make it work, have a reasonable self-awareness, try to communicate and both value the other beyond convenience in their own right to some extent. It is not common for both partners to fulfill those needs.
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post #108 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 02:54 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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So what happens when what you consider an "irresistible" woman/male (possibly based on the items above) does not actually match with what your current role is (as the items listed above are more based on the dynamic of breadwinner H and SAHMish)? How easily can people adjust their thinking (for example, if you find an irresistible man to be one who provides financial support, but in your marriage you are an equal or even the breadwinner, etc...)
Probably ongoing frustration.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #109 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 02:57 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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I think what drives divorce is that marriage needs two partners who are both willing to try and make it work, have a reasonable self-awareness, try to communicate and both value the other beyond convenience in their own right to some extent. It is not common for both partners to fulfill those needs.
I think what drives divorce is the lack of an inspiring, committed leader in the marriage.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #110 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 02:58 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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This is all 'nice to have' - thing is I can outsource it. All of it.

Can't outsource ANY of the stuff makes M2 an exceptional companion:
- Playfulness
- Sense of humor
- Conversational skills

Being good at the 'mechanics' of life is great - but - as your familial income rises - it becomes less critical. And hey - if it makes your partner feel loved - great. If not, best you don't expect much halo effect from it.
The emotional connection is the most important element of modern marriage.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #111 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 03:02 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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I think part of what happens, you have those who believe in the whole "Happy Wife Happy Life" nonsense. So for a guy who follows, he is led to believe that every action he does to make his W happy should be met with validation/appreciation.sex, etc... The W who believes this as well takes the approach that she takes priority in the relationship, and her Hs needs/happiness is nothing more then a byproduct.

I am sure there are couples who follow along with HWHL and are happy with. In general, IMO, it is a horrible concept for anyone to follow, especially since it prioritizes the happiness of one person in the relationship over the other.
If the man is strong in his identity and emotionally independent, I think HWHL can provide great balance in a marriage.

If the man is reactive and emotionally dependent on the woman, as in the Nice Guy syndrome, then striving for HWHL can lead to resentment and even vindictiveness.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #112 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 03:08 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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I think the whole "Happy Wife, Happy Life" is misunderstood by a great number of men, and is therefore executed poorly. If understood and applied correctly, then I think it's a good adage to apply in a relationship.

Happy Wife doesn't mean giving into her every whim and coddling her and doing all the housework like a houseboy. I think a Happy Wife will come from the things we talk about here frequently--making sure that her needs are being met (and let's be honest, a lot of women are not good about communicating those, so this can be a challenge), but also by the husband taking a lead in the relationship (a la MMSL Primer and NMMNG) and establishing boundaries for a healthy relationship. If a wife is happy in these ways, then it comes back to the husband in turn.

That's what I think it means, anyway.
Well said, FIP.

As the Bible suggests, a man who is willing to lay down his life for his wife is likely to inspire her respect and devotion.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #113 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 03:12 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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These days, when women quite properly expect to be treated as equals, I don't see why catering to her needs should take any priority. Both spouse's should be working to satisfy both of their respective needs.
I would not recommend this to my daughter. If the man will not lead, particularly in terms of self sacrifice, she would be wise to pass on him.

I do not trust men who demand "equality."

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #114 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 06:58 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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I think what drives divorce is the lack of an inspiring, committed leader in the marriage.
I have more respect for this than I used to. Not because I thought it unimportant before, but I thought it was what man typically provided.

I recently returned to Europe from the USA. Since then, I have had one lady with whom I was very close tell me that if I offered she would marry me immediately (though a attractive lady in her early twenties marrying a forty year old man is probably a bad idea). A lady I was seeing, but had been rather flakey try to move to Europe to be with me and two letters from women I dated saying I changed their lives. The point is, I provided leadership and was sensitive in the better way (to their feelings rather than my own about theirs). This does suggest this trait is rarer than I had assumed (I am not getting carried away - I am healthy, good looking and employed, if that changed so would everything else).

I would still hope that more men are willing to lay down their lies for their wives. I think they have to play a role of being an active wife as much as they are reasonably able.

I think you make a similar mistake. You almost seem dismissive of what you bring to the marriage. The point is you are capable of appreciating what your husband brings and you respect it. You also show that through your actions. Just as I assumed that men pretty much always provide emotional leadership, you tend to assume what you do is commonplace - I am not sure it is. This does not mean that women of girls should just be abandoned, just that they also choose to make a significant contribution. Of course, this is just my impression.

Last edited by Mr The Other; 03-21-2017 at 07:04 AM.
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post #115 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:22 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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This is all 'nice to have' - thing is I can outsource it. All of it.

Can't outsource ANY of the stuff makes M2 an exceptional companion:
- Playfulness
- Sense of humor
- Conversational skills

Being good at the 'mechanics' of life is great - but - as your familial income rises - it becomes less critical. And hey - if it makes your partner feel loved - great. If not, best you don't expect much halo effect from it.

I have a warehouse full of those as well - few people make it to our level of income or education or professional accomplishments by being full automatons...
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post #116 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:24 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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Well said, FIP.

As the Bible suggests, a man who is willing to lay down his life for his wife is likely to inspire her respect and devotion.
I'll have to wait for the next zombie apocalypse to prove my worth to my wife I guess 😁
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post #117 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:39 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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I have a warehouse full of those as well - few people make it to our level of income or education or professional accomplishments by being full automatons...
You refuse to connect emotionally with her, john. The most important part of modern marriage, and you stubbornly refuse to do it.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #118 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:46 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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You refuse to connect emotionally with her, john. The most important part of modern marriage, and you stubbornly refuse to do it.
Kinda hard to emotionally connect to a zombie, I'm afraid.

Let's see. This weekend we begin our romantic getaway to Washington DC for a few days. Literally first vacation without children in 25 years. Adjust expectations to 0.05% and we'll be all set
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post #119 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:50 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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I have more respect for this than I used to. Not because I thought it unimportant before, but I thought it was what man typically provided.

I recently returned to Europe from the USA. Since then, I have had one lady with whom I was very close tell me that if I offered she would marry me immediately (though a attractive lady in her early twenties marrying a forty year old man is probably a bad idea). A lady I was seeing, but had been rather flakey try to move to Europe to be with me and two letters from women I dated saying I changed their lives. The point is, I provided leadership and was sensitive in the better way (to their feelings rather than my own about theirs). This does suggest this trait is rarer than I had assumed (I am not getting carried away - I am healthy, good looking and employed, if that changed so would everything else).
European men might be better husbands than American men. Not sure if this is true, but it does make me wonder.

Glad to see you understand the importance of the right kind of sensitivity.

Disappointed you seem to have broken some hearts, though.

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I would still hope that more men are willing to lay down their lies for their wives. I think they have to play a role of being an active wife as much as they are reasonably able.

I think you make a similar mistake. You almost seem dismissive of what you bring to the marriage. The point is you are capable of appreciating what your husband brings and you respect it. You also show that through your actions. Just as I assumed that men pretty much always provide emotional leadership, you tend to assume what you do is commonplace - I am not sure it is. This does not mean that women of girls should just be abandoned, just that they also choose to make a significant contribution. Of course, this is just my impression.
This is flattering, MTO, but I do not think I bring more than other wives I know do. I could easily be persuaded I bring less.

My husband is an undeserved gift in my life. I am not sure why he loves me so much, but I am very grateful he does.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #120 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:51 AM
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Re: Men Doing More Chores Increases Divorce?

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Kinda hard to emotionally connect to a zombie, I'm afraid.

Let's see. This weekend we begin our romantic getaway to Washington DC for a few days. Literally first vacation without children in 25 years. Adjust expectations to 0.05% and we'll be all set
You could humble yourself and acknowledge her pain.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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