Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness. - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
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post #76 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 06:02 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

I hold men to the same standards of adulthood I hold myself to. Basic senses of responsibility, charity, honor, loyalty, respect. In general, I find men to be a little more aware and demonstrative of concepts such as partnership, camaraderie, and fairness than women. Again, I speak in generalities. Case in point, I'm sitting in a waiting room for a blood draw. It's first come, first served. Man walks in and asks if I'm having blood drawn and adds his name under mine. Woman walks in and I saw her putting her name at the top of the list above us both. That's a crappy move that I'd not excuse from either gender, but IME I see women pull it all the time.

What irks me is that there are so few good male role models out there. Or perhaps, the good role models are tired of having to struggle against undoing the damage that so many young men have undergone. Women want good men, but they have neither the teachings, coachings, nor skills to live up to the expectations. I'm seeing more supportive programs out there to help. I hope it's not too late.

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

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post #77 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 07:02 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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Originally Posted by katiecrna View Post
Yea the stereotype that men aren't or are a certain way because they are of male gender. Thanks I got it.

However stereotypes exist for a reason. I do not think men and women are equal with the exception of their physical strength.
You read my post wrong if you think it is about putting down men today, it's about the stereotype of men and it's impact. There are plenty of good men out there.

Observation: When someone misunderstands a post it could be they "read it wrong" or it could also be that it was not stated in an unambiguous way.
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post #78 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 07:05 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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I hold men to the same standards of adulthood I hold myself to. Basic senses of responsibility, charity, honor, loyalty, respect. In general, I find men to be a little more aware and demonstrative of concepts such as partnership, camaraderie, and fairness than women. Again, I speak in generalities. Case in point, I'm sitting in a waiting room for a blood draw. It's first come, first served. Man walks in and asks if I'm having blood drawn and adds his name under mine. Woman walks in and I saw her putting her name at the top of the list above us both. That's a crappy move that I'd not excuse from either gender, but IME I see women pull it all the time.

What irks me is that there are so few good male role models out there. Or perhaps, the good role models are tired of having to struggle against undoing the damage that so many young men have undergone. Women want good men, but they have neither the teachings, coachings, nor skills to live up to the expectations. I'm seeing more supportive programs out there to help. I hope it's not too late.
Use a lab that takes appointments and be on time.
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post #79 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 07:21 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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You always introduce a different interpretation that makes me rethink what I thought I understood and question everything over with the new understanding. Thinking in overdrive now lol
I think what I found at first a little strange (and still do sometimes) is that in a relationship, it takes a lot of effort to achieve the same level of trust and the same level of bond (where you don't second guess your partner too much AND your own reactions to your partner) as you'd have with your child, parent or sibling (the kind of altruistic love & trust). Biologically/genetically, the bond is just not the same and it is not as strong (it's not supposed to extend much beyond procreation....to be cynical) so it takes very little for your brain to suddenly switch and see that person in a different light all of a sudden, i.e. "my god, who is this irritating person?" I think it's important (though maybe naive) to start out with the assumption that the other person loves you unconditionally and only has good intentions. Then you don't question every little reaction, hint, tone in the voice, response to a question etc too much because your brain will do the rest and blow it out of proportion.
On the other hand, one shouldn't ignore any major issues that may really bother you long term so it's about finding the right balance with those things. I guess you see your relationship going in a very specific trajectory and if it deviates a little, you start panicking and question your own reaction from the ground up. Maybe TAM is the problem :-) it forces you to examine yourself from the root up and then you end up unearthing all kinds of crap that's better left buried :-)
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post #80 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 08:00 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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And then came Cliff Huckstable (Cosby Show). Now no matter what Cosby turned out to be, I would say Cliff came off as good with his kids, but in a lot of ways he was a bumbling idiot in regards to his wife.
Maybe because the guy was a COMEDIAN??? Rapist too, apparently.
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post #81 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 08:07 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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How is that different? You want control of how the money you give her is spent.
I wouldn't call it control, I would say that I don't trust her to do the right thing. Just like with the college tuition, if I had to give her the money to pay the tuition, the college never see it and my daughter would have to go without college. That's why I'm still married, I pay the tuition myself instead of having to go through her. She can't be trusted to do anything right she only thinks of herself.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #82 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 08:13 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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How? What is your fear? You think your wife will buy a Prada bag while your kids are going hungry? You must not think much of her, well at least her abilities as a parent.
Yes, exactly, that's exactly what she would do. She only thinks about and cares about herself. Her children and I don't matter. Trust has always been an issue in our marriage.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #83 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 08:17 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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I wouldn't call it control, I would say that I don't trust her to do the right thing. Just like with the college tuition, if I had to give her the money to pay the tuition, the college never see it and my daughter would have to go without college. That's why I'm still married, I pay the tuition myself instead of having to go through her. She can't be trusted to do anything right she only thinks of herself.
No offense intended. It still the same thing. You want to control how the money is spent. I get it. If that is the only reason to stay married well...

I kind of think that could be handled in a settlement. On the other hand, staying married like that might be considered an excuse for not making the decision to divorce.. In addition the effect on your child/children is going to be with them until they go into therapy as adults. I'm just commenting on what you are saying. I know nothing of your situation so please excuse me if I misstate.
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post #84 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 08:25 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

I am a woman and I agree there should be accountability with child support. I keep my kids money in a separate account. If a judge were ever to ask, I can just pull at the statement and it would be clear from the entries, every thing I did with the money went for the kids.

I have a friend (male) who pays 5,000/month and his kids still come to him for things like clothing and school supplies. Disgusting. Unfortunately, his X wife has no accountability and its wrong.
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post #85 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 08:33 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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Originally Posted by Satya View Post
....

What irks me is that there are so few good male role models out there. Or perhaps, the good role models are tired of having to struggle against undoing the damage that so many young men have undergone. Women want good men, but they have neither the teachings, coachings, nor skills to live up to the expectations. I'm seeing more supportive programs out there to help. I hope it's not too late.
The organizations that have sponsored and advocated, and even trained men to be role models and mentors are under social attack. When the courts have failed, pressure is applied to corporate sponsors to remove financial support for these programs. The organizations have been disappearing for most of my life. Some of the fault lies in the idea that any man who volunteers to work with youth or children is under suspicion of pedophilic exploitation. In short we have decided as a society NOT to have male role models and mentors.
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post #86 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 10:07 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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What's your expectation for women? @Mr The Other
My expectations are reasonable, I mentioned my standards as being too high!

I would like a woman I find attractive, including kindness, beauty and intellect.

The harder bits, I would want respect, but not veneration. Insecurity can cause some women to put their men on a high pedestal, which sounds great. But, it means what you do is no longer respected. When you put yourself in danger, well you could cope easily. When you take care of her when you both have the flu, well disease does not really affect you. When you work hard, well, it is so easy for you. "I love you" often means, "I from now on rely on you to make me happy and that is my contribution to the relationship".

Such veneration is a killer, but the other side of that insecurity is poison dripping. Most men would die for their women, but living with someone who will continually try to put you down is not acceptable. Of course, we all have insecurities, but I would want the respect combined with the self-awareness not to let such insecurities ruin everything.

All that, and a partner who is also willing to contribute to the marriage - in an actual way rather than 'emotional support'. I do not mean to dismiss "emotional support" completely, as I give it to friends and receive it from friends. But often it means that feeling like you have contributed or claiming you did something is more important that actually doing it, which is BS.

It means that there is a respect and motivation that goes beyond convenience. I had a friend, LC. He had a romantic weekend planned with his girlfriend, but his brother committed suicide a couple of days before hand. He cancelled the weekend with his girlfriend and went up to see his family instead. Rather than being upset about her lost weekend, she instead went up with him, supported him and his family - making food and doing grocery shopping. Shortly afterwards he proposed and they are still together. Such a woman is very rare indeed, but very precious.

It is a fairly dull list, and fairly typical I would think. It does ask for self-awareness and commitment, but I know of women like this. I also know they are of limited number. I am forty now, and even with advantages (I can still go into town and get the numbers of young attractive women), I know the chances of finding all that are limited. But, I am rather happy on my own.

Sorry, it is all rather typical and boring. No great insights.

All that and Catholic would be ideal. But now we are getting into really little chance.

Last edited by Mr The Other; 03-24-2017 at 11:39 AM.
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post #87 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 10:41 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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I wouldn't call it control, I would say that I don't trust her to do the right thing. Just like with the college tuition, if I had to give her the money to pay the tuition, the college never see it and my daughter would have to go without college. That's why I'm still married, I pay the tuition myself instead of having to go through her. She can't be trusted to do anything right she only thinks of herself.


Why would you give your ex wife money for your kids college? They are over 18 then why not just give the college money yourself. People find strange excuses to stay married to a person they dislike.
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post #88 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 10:54 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

Katie,

Posting solely as a fellow traveler, not as a mod.
Male 53 - together with M2 for 27 years, married for 25.

What is the difference in your mind, between a man watching tv vs playing a video game?




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But look around. I think those cartoons are obviously exaggerated but there is some truth to them. It seems like at least when I look around with my biased POV that when women get married, they inherit another child. The thought of a man playing video games blows my mind and drives me crazy.
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post #89 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 11:00 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

Some states do require child support as long as the children stay in college. Not mine, but then again we are not really a progressive politically important state. Which means that I am currently free from the possibility of paying Child support . . . . to my wife. It does nothing for The money I've shelled out this year to get D#2 to Graduation this year. Including a seminar in London. But, hey She was my side kick through the hardest year of my life. She has earned this. And I couldn't be more proud of her achievement. :::End Thread jack:::

Um stereotypes often lead us to poor policy decisions.
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post #90 of 92 (permalink) Old 03-24-2017, 11:45 AM
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Re: Tired of failings being blamed on Maleness.

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Use a lab that takes appointments and be on time.
I wasn't complaining, just making a point.

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

~ Abraham Maslow
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