Who should pay on dates? - Page 10 - Talk About Marriage
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post #136 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:10 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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By no means.
The point I wanted to try and get across is that extremely attractive people of both sexes are treated differently than mere mortals.You see it everywhere,guys tripping over themselves to hold a door for some gorgeous girl,stopping in traffic to let her cross the road.A really attractive woman gets used to being spoiled by men from a young age and if you ask her out you better know the rules of this game.She may be a kind and generous person or a self entitled ***** but for you to get her attention sexually speaking you need to make her feel special.If she never had to pay for dates before why would she start with you.
Amounts to the same thing, does it not?
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post #137 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:10 PM
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It's good to have weeder criteria, no doubt about it. However, the criterion that a man always pays is going to weed out guys who don't fit your model. I make $65k/year, own my house, own my car outright, have great credit, raise my daughter on my own 50% of the time, and have a substantial savings.

I just don't believe your daughter is entitled to a man always paying for her simply because she has a vagina. Especially when she has the ability to pay for herself.
If she can get it, then I guess she is entitled to it.
By that logic, if I can get sex from your daughter, then that means I'm entitled to it.

No double standards.
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post #138 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:13 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Amounts to the same thing, does it not?
I don't understand your premise.
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post #139 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:16 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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By no means.
The point I wanted to try and get across is that extremely attractive people of both sexes are treated differently than mere mortals.You see it everywhere,guys tripping over themselves to hold a door for some gorgeous girl,stopping in traffic to let her cross the road.A really attractive woman gets used to being spoiled by men from a young age and if you ask her out you better know the rules of this game.She may be a kind and generous person or a self entitled ***** but for you to get her attention sexually speaking you need to make her feel special.If she never had to pay for dates before why would she start with you.

Not always. Sometimes very attractive women grow up in families in which the parents are determined, either consciously or subconsciously, to cut their daughter down to size. Looking back on it, I really do think I was more attractive in my 20s than I was willing to believe. I was raised to be eager to please others and the one who makes the first move and so on. When I look at the really popular women in situations among both women and men, they are not always the most attractive. But what I did finally identify is that are a mix of confidence, receptiveness and detachment. They may be friendly but they were / are not eager to please. That leads me to believe that both man and woman like a challenge in their relationships at all levels.
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post #140 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:19 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Amounts to the same thing, does it not?
If I understand you correctly you are saying that by paying for a night out I am trying to "buy" the woman I'm with.From this I will infer that you mean try to have sex with her.The guy that brings you on a date and buys you a pretzel is also trying to have sex with YOU,but either doesn't have the money to bring you for a meal or doesn't think you are worth it.Quid pro quo.
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post #141 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:23 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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And I am aware of situations in which the guy pays but supposedly didn't particularly liked the woman anyway. What's up with that?

If I had to be single again, I would never go on a date with a guy without his paying at this point. If I have to pay formyself, I'll go out with my friends ....... and that does not include going out with a guy --that same guy, especially -- "as friends."
I've come to similar conclusions, but for different reasons.

I've found that lots of guy will pay for some things even if they don't actually like you all that much -- as basically a way to buy his way into your bed. But his level of investment will be low. These guys will mostly treat you poorly if you do anything more with them than letting them buy you a few drinks.

Frankly, I'd rather not play this game at all, and so hope to never have to date again. But for those very beginning days, I wouldn't bother with any guy that won't demonstrate investment at the outset -- as it will inevitably end poorly for me. For the longer term relationships, it's easier, as I just think that both partners need to share the advantages and the costs.

(And by investment, I don't mean necessarily the amount of dollars, but the relative sacrifice of time, energy, and purchasing power.)
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post #142 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:24 PM
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This should throw the cat amongst the pigeons.
To the guys who expect or insist that their dates pay for themselves or pay every second date can I ask you at what level of attractiveness are you dealing with.Any tens,nines even.I really want to know is there a level at which you think a woman shouldn't expect the man to pay for everything.
Anyone?
I used to try to be sensitive to a guy's needs when it came to money. But as I have said before, my experience is that that money that he saves because I paid is then used to take another woman out.
So? It's his money. What he does with it is his business.

If both of you haven't agreed to exclusivity, then he's absolutely within his rights to spend *his* money on dates with other women.

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If I had to be single again, I would never go on a date with a guy without his paying at this point. If I have to pay for myself, I'll go out with my friends ....... and that does not include going out with a guy --that same guy, especially -- "as friends."
If I had to be single again, I would never date anyone who wasn't cool with going dutch.
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post #143 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:26 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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If I understand you correctly you are saying that by paying for a night out I am trying to "buy" the woman I'm with.From this I will infer that you mean try to have sex with her.The guy that brings you on a date and buys you a pretzel is also trying to have sex with YOU,but either doesn't have the money to bring you for a meal or doesn't think you are worth it.Quid pro quo.
No, you seem to be saying that the women worth having are those that are entitled to have everything bought for them. Only those "lesser" women, those not worth having, can be coaxed into contributing.

And so guys that want women worth having better be prepared to pay. Through the nose.

Have I misunderstood?
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post #144 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:28 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

Context is everything.

I dated A LOT just a few short years ago.

I paid.

My opinion is, that if you are older than 40, and you are calling the shots on where and when a date takes place ... then you pay. It's simple.

The other factor is attraction. A woman will offer to pay as a measure to manage or control the dating transaction ... or because she's very attracted to, and comfortable with her date.

I had a number of women offer to split or pay for a date ... or straight up have the check delivered to them. I would always look them in the eye and say, "I'm happy to take the check, are you sure you want to do that?"

And if she said, yes ... I let her.

To many women, the act is empowering. It makes a statement about them, what they want ... and can do as well. It's an act of independence and a statement that she's absolutely capable of taking care of herself ... and at her discretion, me too.
I notably had a date with a woman (successful business owner) and she picked up a $300.00 tab. She paid the bill behind my back. I asked for the check and the waitress said it had already been taken care of. That was something I would often do. I thought it was a ballsy move on her part. We had a blast. Dated for a few months before deciding to part ways.

For the younger set ... they have a completely different dynamic, which I can't claim to understand. I do feel comfortable stating however, that the overall expectation that a man ALWAYS pays, has gone the way of the dodo.
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post #145 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:29 PM
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If I understand you correctly you are saying that by paying for a night out I am trying to "buy" the woman I'm with.From this I will infer that you mean try to have sex with her.The guy that brings you on a date and buys you a pretzel is also trying to have sex with YOU,but either doesn't have the money to bring you for a meal or doesn't think you are worth it.Quid pro quo.
No, you seem to be saying that the women worth having are those that are entitled to have everything bought for them.

And so guys that want women worth having better be prepared to pay. Through the nose.

Have I misunderstood?
Frankly, this is the impression I'm getting from both jld and NTA.
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post #146 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:30 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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(And by investment, I don't mean necessarily the amount of dollars, but the relative sacrifice of time, energy, and purchasing power.)
That's what I mean as well when I talk about investing in a relationship.

Time is particularly valuable as you can't get that back.
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post #147 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:33 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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there are times when cyberspace and real life do not meet. This one of those occasions. I don't get the impression that of the single women that Ii know, that they only date guys who pay for everything. There is some navigation. indeed, when I was dating between marriages, I heard from women who told me not to expect a man to pay and women who were a little bit jealous that I could find dates who did want to pay.

After looking at my total dating experience over the course of my life, I have tried to identify some of the tricks of the trade, for example

1. Trying to get a woman to pay for a few things because he "forgot to go to the cash machine."

2. A guy who unbundles the activities of the evening as a way to get the women to pay for some of it: go one place for cocktails; another for dinner, another for dessert and so on ...... then try to get the woman to pay for one of more portions of the evening.

I used to try to be sensitive to a guy's needs when it came to money. But as I have said before, my experience is that that money that he saves because I paid is then used to take another woman out.

And I am aware of situations in which the guy pays but supposedly didn't particularly liked the woman anyway. What's up with that?

If I had to be single again, I would never go on a date with a guy without his paying at this point. If I have to pay formyself, I'll go out with my friends ....... and that does not include going out with a guy --that same guy, especially -- "as friends."
Wow, that is appalling, that those men would do that.

And you have certainly reached a wise conclusion.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #148 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:34 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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So? It's his money. What he does with it is his business.

If both of you haven't agreed to exclusivity, then he's absolutely within his rights to spend *his* money on dates with other women.



If I had to be single again, I would never date anyone who wasn't cool with going dutch.
This is true. But he is making a statement as to what he values when he decides how he is going to allocate his funds.

My thought is that if I help to pay, we could see each other more often or not have to be price sensitive as to what we choose to do. However, if that is not priority for him, then I should move on.
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post #149 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:40 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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If she never had to pay for dates before why would she start with you.
This.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #150 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-28-2017, 03:45 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

Paying for dates isn't at all about trying to buy sex, it's about taking charge and taking care of the other person. From my perspective we all have very busy lives full of commitments and stresses, and dating should be a reprieve from them. When I date I like to usually be the one to plan the evening, choose the venue, and cover the cost, this way the woman gets to just go out and relax, enjoy herself, and appreciate being taken care of. This is a way for her to shed life's normal dynamic where she's taking care of others (work/kids/whatever) and lets her feel appreciated. The way she "pays" her part of the evening is just by relaxing and being good company, and I do my best to setup the situation so that it is easy for her. Her taking on the traditional female role is part of this scenario, and it works great. If she offers to occasionally take me out, well that is a nice gesture. I also don't personally value the financial cost of paying for the date very highly because I have enough money that it's really no big deal, so I never figure she "owes" me sex or anything other than pleasant company. I take charge on cheap dates too, such as hiking, evenings at home, etc. since it fits my personality.
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