Who should pay on dates? - Page 31 - Talk About Marriage
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post #451 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 03:38 PM
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This is why it's important to have self confidence and worth as a man. Men are socialized into thinking manhood equates to putting women on a pedestal and thinking their value is worth more than you're own. Which is why insecure men think they owe women compensation for dates or they have to pay for their company.

I used to think this too when I was over weight and socially awkward. Then I got myself together an realize I shouldn't have to prove myself to a woman. We at minimum need to prove ourselves to each other. And considering modern women are as deep as a puddle in a rain shower and I have high SMV, she likely needs to prove herself to me.

That said I usually pay for the first date. But because it's just easier that way, not because I'm self loathing enough to think I owe it to a woman. After that initial date I always tell them when I pay that they have the next check. And they agree every time. If a woman recognizes your worth she'll pull out her wallet and pay for the whole thing with a smile on her face.

My current GF is an ex model who still has NFL and NBA players she knew in college trying to nab her. And she STILL pays for stuff with no problem and always have. If she's contributing then you better believe every other woman will.
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post #452 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:21 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by lovelygirl View Post
Do you think you should pay most of the time or you dislike it when you're the one paying most of/all the time?
Would you prefer she paid most of the time or you think both partners should take turns?
Is there any difference if you're at the early stages of dating/relationship ?
By traditional gender roles, the man is supposed to be the provider and the woman is supposed to be barefoot, pregnant, at home, actually making the house. I was taught this as I grew up, in a rather closed-minded environment.

Later in my life, when I left the social setting of my youth and ventured into university, I exposed myself to more influences that got me thinking along different lines: gender equality. The topic is heard about relentlessly in the adult world, whether it's through mainstream media, initiatives at one's employer, or the subject of academic research.

Two very different views of women offer two sets of answers to your questions. If a woman is seen as financially dependent, the man should assume his traditional role of provider, whether dating or in a more serious relationship. If the woman is seen as financially independent, the man expects a "tit for tat" arrangement, where he pays and then she pays (wash, rinse, repeat). Unfortunately, our society has double standards when it comes to men and women being equals, and in many places (including the realm of relationships), women get special treatment. This is very much a societal norm, hence some men expecting "tit for tat" arrangements will still pay for their dates at some point (i.e. beyond a first or second date). I was among these men, just like a lot of other guys.

Looking at this another way, guys who view dating as an economic transaction will find paying acceptable, as along as the benefits of paying across dates outweigh the costs. If a guy wants casual sex, he'll buy a gal some coffees and a few meals without a hitch, as long as that furthers his cause with enough (though not necessarily all) women he dates.
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post #453 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 07:32 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

Funny side note, on the Blown Off radio segment I hear on my way to work this morning this exact topic came up.

Two people went on date, she offered to pay for half the bill but he insisted on paying for the entire bill. She had no problems with this. However, he supposedly made it a point to remind her several times during the date that he paid the bill. The radio host asked him if this was done trying to deposit money in the "booty bank" (i.e. I paid for dinner so I expect a little extra something at the end). He claimed that it wasn't the case, he just wanted her to really know that if she was with him he would take care of her, how "manly" he was.

Separately, I do wonder how she would have reacted if when she offered to pay 1/2 he took her up on that. She mentioned she offered to pay for 1/2 simply b/c she didn't appear "prissy", but was happy that he paid because that was the man thing to do....
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post #454 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 08:00 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

On some of my past dates, I remember how some independent women were very quick to pay their bill, as if to short-circuit the chance that I might want to pay for them. This was interesting, because it gave me the impression that the women wanted to short-circuit my expectations of "something more" on the first date, even if that "something more" was only a kiss. The inherent "information asymmetries" in dating give rise to some odd behaviors as people try to figure out each others' objectives and find a good match.
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post #455 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 08:12 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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On some of my past dates, I remember how some independent women were very quick to pay their bill, as if to short-circuit the chance that I might want to pay for them. This was interesting, because it gave me the impression that the women wanted to short-circuit my expectations of "something more" on the first date, even if that "something more" was only a kiss. The inherent "information asymmetries" in dating give rise to some odd behaviors as people try to figure out each others' objectives and find a good match.
One guy told me that when a woman insists on paying she is trying to say "I don't want to see you again."
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post #456 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 08:17 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

About 8-10 years ago when I was doing the online dating thing, I became quite active on the Plenty of Fish message forums.

I saw a pattern over the couple of years I was a member - many random women who came and went on those forums stated that they always tried to make sure to pay their half of the bill on a date when they knew they weren't interested in a second date with that person. It was a very, very common theme I saw posted over and over. I just wonder if that still holds true 10 years later.
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post #457 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 09:08 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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One guy told me that when a woman insists on paying she is trying to say "I don't want to see you again."
In my experience of dating, albeit in the dark ages of 1992 through 1996 when I was a young chap of 21-25. Whenever a woman paid for all or half, it always led to sex on the first through fourth date. Whereas through that time, it didn't always lead to sex whenever I paid for all of it.

For the most part though, dating was the slow path to sharing sex with a woman. Since it wasn't uncommon for me to go to a party or a nightclub and have different women and sometimes men approach me. Then following some banter would ask me to have sex with them or more crudely and less frequently offer me sex in the first instance.

What would usually happen, was I would have sex with a woman (well the ones I said yes to) at a party, nightclub or their place. Who would say "you're cute/pretty/handsome" or "you have nice eyes/smile etc". Then on some occasions we would then start dating afterwards if we both wanted more, where we would both share the costs of dating from the beginning.

Or I would be asked out on a date by a woman who knew me from one of my social circles, work or had just met me etc. Then they would most often usually pay, or we would share the costs (I always would offer to pay though). Where we would invariably have sex by the fourth date (usually through their initiation or request).

The only times when I didn't have sex with a woman I dated, was on a few occasions when I did the pursuing, asking out and covered all costs.
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post #458 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 09:16 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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In my experience of dating, albeit in the dark ages of 1992 through 1996 when I was a young chap of 21-25. Whenever a woman paid for all or half, it always led to sex on the first through fourth date. Whereas through that time, it didn't always lead to sex whenever I paid for all of it.


Or I would be asked out on a date by a woman who knew me from one of my social circles, work or had just met me etc. Then they would most often usually pay, or we would share the costs (I always would offer to pay though). Where we would invariably have sex by the fourth date (usually through their initiation or request).

The only times when I didn't have sex with a woman I dated, was on a few occasions when I did the pursuing, asking out and covered all costs.
Dividing most of your dating history into 2 groups:

1. those women who paid AND had sex with you by the fourth date
2. those who expected you to pay for everything and you never had sex with them (by what date did you usually determine this?)

What was your opinion of these two groups in real time / at that time?

Did you think that members of Group 1 were easy and therefore of no value?

Did you think that members of Group 2 were challenging / of quality / worth your valuable resources (time, money, favors, etc) because if they made you wait they "knew their value" or something like that?
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post #459 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 05:49 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by She'sStillGotIt View Post
About 8-10 years ago when I was doing the online dating thing, I became quite active on the Plenty of Fish message forums.

I saw a pattern over the couple of years I was a member - many random women who came and went on those forums stated that they always tried to make sure to pay their half of the bill on a date when they knew they weren't interested in a second date with that person. It was a very, very common theme I saw posted over and over. I just wonder if that still holds true 10 years later.
I had never heard that about women who paid for 1/2 or part of dating but I have heard and experienced a woman who insisted on paying for the whole thing not being interested.

Most the women I have met wanted to contribute. Many just wanted to avoid any feelings of obligation.
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post #460 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 02:39 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

Awww, c'mon..... I was hoping to get some thoughtful responses to my post no. 458.

Opinions from both men and woman are welcomed.
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post #461 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:10 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by lovelygirl View Post
I friend of mine, 35 y.o. is single and hasn't been in a realtionship for 3 years now. During one of our discussions, she said "I don't need just a guy in my life... I need a man. But where are men today? To even think that they can't even pay you a dinner? A real man wouldn't allow me to pay for the dinner, even if I insisted on doing so...".

This got me thinking if men here agree with this saying or not.

Do you think you should pay most of the time or you dislike it when you're the one paying most of/all the time?
Would you prefer she paid most of the time?
or you think both partners should take turns?
Is there any difference if you're at the early stages of dating/relationship ?

I will say my opinion later.
IMO, anybody who thinks in such a black-and-white manner probably doesn't see 99% of the rainbow of colors that make up real life.

Who pays on dates? What a wonderful first topic to use as a means of learning how to collaborate with each other!!!

There are three kinds of business. Your business, my business and God's business. Whose business are you in? -Byron Katie
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post #462 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 09:12 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Awww, c'mon..... I was hoping to get some thoughtful responses to my post no. 458.

Opinions from both men and woman are welcomed.
I'll respond when I've got time and am not using my iPad.
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post #463 of 463 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 09:18 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Dividing most of your dating history into 2 groups:

1. those women who paid AND had sex with you by the fourth date
2. those who expected you to pay for everything and you never had sex with them (by what date did you usually determine this?)

What was your opinion of these two groups in real time / at that time?

my dating history was expansive. I had a lot of first dates (150 or so). Far fewer second dates, less than a dozen third dates 7 of which lead to relationships lasting longer than 6 months.

My opinion on group one is that they value themselves, me and the realtionship trying to be built. They don't want to be a sideline passenger in the foundation building they want an active roll.

My opinion on group two is they are entitled. They want an unequal relationship dynamic.... my personal opinion is that this is how they will approach the whole relationship. What can you give me and what can I take. Generally doesn't take 4 dates to figure this out though


Did you think that members of Group 1 were easy and therefore of no value?

contrary I think they are full of self worth. They don't feel entitled to anything and want to be partners and contribute. Very sexy

Did you think that members of Group 2 were challenging / of quality / worth your valuable resources (time, money, favors, etc) because if they made you wait they "knew their value" or something like that?
I know you probably didn't mean it like this but group two sounds like game players to me. Like something out of a rule book on how to attract men when in fact it may be a turn off to many. Game playing at any time is a turn off. Selfishness is a turn off. Entitlement is a turnoff. Group two would have little appeal to me and since very few made it to date two and none to date three I am comfortable in the fact that we just aren't compatible.
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