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post #61 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 03:35 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by Bananapeel View Post
Wait, so dating is like getting a hooker? Kidding. I sincerely hope there aren't too many guys like that around.
I'd put the women who EXPECT the men to pay for every date in the SAME category as men who EXPECT sexual favors after paying for the date.

Both parties are engaged in a quid pro quo transaction. No different than a variation of prostitution. Money in exchange for company.

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post #62 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 03:50 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

I hope there aren't too many guys who think that paying for a date is paying for sex, but I think some do.

I look at the whole "who pays?" question a little differently. If I were taking someone out, I would go to a place where I honestly didn't care about the money. If that means getting Togo's sandwiches and eating on a bench by the bay watching the sailboats, that's fine if it is a reasonable example of how I normally eat. What is the point of taking someone to Chez Expensive if you can never normally afford to eat there?

Most people can afford a dinner at a nice place without really worrying about who is paying.


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Originally Posted by Bananapeel View Post
It can be, depending on the reason. If the guy is paying because he's afraid of upsetting the woman then you are right. If he's paying because that's what he likes to do, then it isn't. Basically, is the behavior being done for her or for him would define which category he fits in.



Wait, so dating is like getting a hooker? Kidding. I sincerely hope there aren't too many guys like that around.
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post #63 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 04:48 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by BetrayedDad View Post
I'd put the women who EXPECT the men to pay for every date in the SAME category as men who EXPECT sexual favors after paying for the date.

Both parties are engaged in a quid pro quo transaction. No different than a variation of prostitution. Money in exchange for company.
This happens more often than we realize. In fact, I think there was a man on TAM within the past year who thought that because he had taken the same woman out several times and spent 'X' amount of dollars on her that she 'should' be 'putting out' by now.

Some people do/think this way even in marriage. I-did-the-dishes-now-you-owe-me-sex or I-had-sex-with-you-twice-last-week-and-now-you-owe-me-an-expensive-dinner.

I used to work with a few woman who tried to set me up with their friends. I wasn't interested in dating, but they kept trying to egg me on, saying things like, "At least you get out of the house!" OR, "At least you get a free meal!".

Just not my style. I don't use men for money, and I don't expect them to use me for sex.
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post #64 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by EllisRedding View Post
Given how far women have come with their careers/salaries where it is not uncommon for them to equal or exceed their SO in earning power, I find it pathetic that women in these positions would expect to always eat for free. Likewise, it is mind numbing to draw a correlation between a guy paying for every meal and how "trustworthy" he is.
To me, it's not related to the earning power, it's more of a gentleman thing that I'd rather he does for me.

If I earned more would he expect me to pay on most dates?? No. I'd be turned off to be honest.

I find it offensive though that some men think that women who want guys to pay on dates, want to get away with a free meal. That's very rude and it's a shame for a guy to think. Just like it's a shame for a woman to want it..because I know there are women out there who simply want to have a free meal.

Disgusting.

Davelli0331: If a GNO, or alcohol, or an attractive coworker, or a past flame on FB were all that were needed for someone to cheat, then I think that person had that defect in their integrity all along. All they ever lacked was the opportunity to act on their lack of integrity and the circumstances required to rationalize it to themselves.
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post #65 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 05:10 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by EllisRedding View Post
Hmmmm ... I would say on one hand, and maybe I am old fashioned, I do believe in the guy paying on the first date. Since my W and I started dating I have paid a majority of the times we went out to eat. However, when we were in college, if we relied solely on me having money to go out to eat we would rarely go out lol, so since she was working she would pay more. Keep in mind as well, for a majority of our marriage (with the exception of the first few years) I have done much better financially (and now with my W as a SAHM I am of course paying regardless of who's wallet the money comes from lol), so I say about 98.7% of all meals in our lifetime I have paid.

I will add though a couple of things. Now keep in mind, I do believe on the whole "gentleman" approach, whether it be paying for meals, opening doors, etc... but also consider I have not been on the dating scene since 1997 lol. Given how far women have come with their careers/salaries where it is not uncommon for them to equal or exceed their SO in earning power, I find it pathetic that women in these positions would expect to always eat for free. Likewise, it is mind numbing to draw a correlation between a guy paying for every meal and how "trustworthy" he is.
I think many are speaking from a position of not having dated in a long time and that's ok but times have changed. Rare was it I was taken advantage of for a free meal, but it did happen to me, it does happen to others. And it happens both ways where women are also taken advantage of. It's also a lovely experience when you try and pull a chair out for a woman and she makes a scene over it .

Dating now is probably more complex than ever where no one really understands the "rules" because thy are different to everyone as exhibited by the answers in this thread. So long is everyone is honest people suitable will find each other
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post #66 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 05:23 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by lovelygirl View Post
To me, it's not related to the earning power, it's more of a gentleman thing that I'd rather he does for me.

If I earned more would he expect me to pay on most dates?? No. I'd be turned off to be honest.

I find it offensive though that some men think that women who want guys to pay on dates, want to get away with a free meal. That's very rude and it's a shame for a guy to think. Just like it's a shame for a woman to want it..because I know there are women out there who simply want to have a free meal.

Disgusting.
You probably wouldn't judge so harshly if you had ever been taken been taken advantage of in this way. I have and yes it was very disgusting of them.

The best solution I have always offered to people worried about being taken advantage of or worried about expectations placed is to do simple things the first couple dates.

Meet for just a beer or coffee the first time
Take a walk in the park for the second
Maybe a picnic or something simple for the third.

by then both should have a good gauge on each other to see if they have real interest. I dated ALOT for about 4 years after my divorce and only ever had one woman flat out say no to meeting for a beer on a first date. And that was fine by me....by her reaction I could tell we would never be compatible so we didn't waste each other's times.
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post #67 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 05:32 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by lovelygirl View Post
To me, it's not related to the earning power, it's more of a gentleman thing that I'd rather he does for me.

If I earned more would he expect me to pay on most dates?? No. I'd be turned off to be honest.

I find it offensive though that some men think that women who want guys to pay on dates, want to get away with a free meal. That's very rude and it's a shame for a guy to think. Just like it's a shame for a woman to want it..because I know there are women out there who simply want to have a free meal.

Disgusting.
The way I looked at it when I was dating was a woman goes to a lot of trouble to get ready for a date.(Well at least the ones I dated did)She does her hair,nails,makeup,picks out what clothes to wear and all of this takes time.I just showered and got dressed and was ready for action.A women likes to feel appreciated and I felt the least I could do was pay for her evening.I was probably in a slightly different situation than most guys of my age in that even as a teenager I always made good money so paying for movies,meals,drinks etc didn't bother me but I understand it isn't the same for everyone.
Of course the ultimate goal was to sleep with her but I figured even if she didn't have sex with me she would still have had a good time and there would always be another night.
But they usually did sleep with me.
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post #68 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by BetrayedDad View Post
I'd put the women who EXPECT the men to pay for every date in the SAME category as men who EXPECT sexual favors after paying for the date.

Both parties are engaged in a quid pro quo transaction. No different than a variation of prostitution. Money in exchange for company.
Very well said. They both belong to the disgusting category made of hidden intentions.

Davelli0331: If a GNO, or alcohol, or an attractive coworker, or a past flame on FB were all that were needed for someone to cheat, then I think that person had that defect in their integrity all along. All they ever lacked was the opportunity to act on their lack of integrity and the circumstances required to rationalize it to themselves.
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post #69 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by EllisRedding View Post
Given how far women have come with their careers/salaries where it is not uncommon for them to equal or exceed their SO in earning power, I find it pathetic that women in these positions would expect to always eat for free. Likewise, it is mind numbing to draw a correlation between a guy paying for every meal and how "trustworthy" he is.
1000x this. Great post.

Women's liberation has freed men. Women have two arms, two legs, and a brain with which to earn currency. If she wants dinner, there ain't nothing getting in her way of paying for it. Our wallets can now be our own, provided we avoid marrying a woman below our income level and have an iron-clad prenup. Likewise, a woman's wallet can also be her own too.

With that comes the responsibility of her paying for what she wants. Screw this "real men pay" bullcrap. What's between a person's legs doesn't entitle them to a meal at someone else's expense. Whoever does the asking out should be who pays regardless of their gender, unless both agree to go dutch.

For the record, I have more disposable income than my girlfriend does due to her having more expenses, so I do the lion's share of buying when we go out. I have no problem with it, because it's not an expectation on her part. I do it because I want us to have fun, not because she'll think less of me as a man if I don't. She also bought me a piece of pizza for lunch today, and yet somehow my masculinity remains intact.

I run from *any* woman who prefaces a sentence with "A real man..." What's this about gender stereotypes being a bad thing again?
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post #70 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by Wolf1974 View Post
You probably wouldn't judge so harshly if you had ever been taken been taken advantage of in this way. I have and yes it was very disgusting of them.

The best solution I have always offered to people worried about being taken advantage of or worried about expectations placed is to do simple things the first couple dates.

Meet for just a beer or coffee the first time
Take a walk in the park for the second
Maybe a picnic or something simple for the third.

by then both should have a good gauge on each other to see if they have real interest. I dated ALOT for about 4 years after my divorce and only ever had one woman flat out say no to meeting for a beer on a first date. And that was fine by me....by her reaction I could tell we would never be compatible so we didn't waste each other's times.
Yeah I understand where you're coming from and I don't blame you.
Just as I'd appreciate him if he paid, I'd also appreciate him if he took me to simple places (like you mentioned..picnic ...etc). There are guys out there who simply want to show off to the girl by taking her to very expensive places. I don't like this either.
I'd rather start simple with a guy and if he wants to please me by taking me to expensive places, I'd happily do the same for him in return. But it would be better if the expensive stuff came a bit later in the dating period.

First we need to understand if we're compatible. Also, I don't agree with dinner of the first date(s). Dinner is intimate and implies more than that. A simple hang out/drink would be enough for a start.

Davelli0331: If a GNO, or alcohol, or an attractive coworker, or a past flame on FB were all that were needed for someone to cheat, then I think that person had that defect in their integrity all along. All they ever lacked was the opportunity to act on their lack of integrity and the circumstances required to rationalize it to themselves.
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post #71 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 06:13 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by Wolf1974 View Post
I think many are speaking from a position of not having dated in a long time and that's ok but times have changed. Rare was it I was taken advantage of for a free meal, but it did happen to me, it does happen to others. And it happens both ways where women are also taken advantage of. It's also a lovely experience when you try and pull a chair out for a woman and she makes a scene over it .

Dating now is probably more complex than ever where no one really understands the "rules" because thy are different to everyone as exhibited by the answers in this thread. So long is everyone is honest people suitable will find each other
How would you say it is different nowadays?

Just curious because my daughter is 21 and her experience seems pretty similar to mine from years ago in that the young men find it normal to pay.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #72 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 06:34 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by lovelygirl View Post
To me, it's not related to the earning power, it's more of a gentleman thing that I'd rather he does for me.

If I earned more would he expect me to pay on most dates?? No. I'd be turned off to be honest.

I find it offensive though that some men think that women who want guys to pay on dates, want to get away with a free meal. That's very rude and it's a shame for a guy to think. Just like it's a shame for a woman to want it..because I know there are women out there who simply want to have a free meal.

Disgusting.
I look at it as the difference between having someone pay and expecting someone to pay. Same difference as wanting to have sex with someone vs expecting it. When you do something with the expectation of getting something out of it, whether it be saying yes to a date with a guy you have little interest in so you can get a free meal, or taking a gal out for a date and spending loads of money thinking they owe you sex in return, there is seriously something wrong. Both men and women are guilty in doing this.

The problem with the whole earning power thing is that it is a double standard. Whether or not a guy makes more or less then a female he is expected to pay, that is the "gentlemen" thing to do. Even if a female is making significantly more then a man, she doesn't have to, or if he dare asks she can pull out the "you aren't a gentleman" card.

In my case, I have been very fortunate with my career. I enjoy spoiling my W because I want to, not b/c I am expected to. I don't do it with the expectation that sex is the end result (although, if I actually did the math I am definitely not getting my moneys worth lol).
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post #73 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 06:40 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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How would you say it is different nowadays?

Just curious because my daughter is 21 and her experience seems pretty similar to mine from years ago in that the young men find it normal to pay.
Really? Must live in different social spheres then. When I was a teen and dated I paid most but not all the time. When I became single for my second time I started off paying for everything but couple bad experiences and stopped. Dated several women now long term and we both were always most comfortable with I get this part you get that part of a date. Probably because we are both looking for equal partners in one another even if it's never exactly equal.

My kiddos say that dating should be 50-50 and expect both partners to contribute.
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post #74 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 06:43 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Originally Posted by lovelygirl View Post
Yeah I understand where you're coming from and I don't blame you.
Just as I'd appreciate him if he paid, I'd also appreciate him if he took me to simple places (like you mentioned..picnic ...etc). There are guys out there who simply want to show off to the girl by taking her to very expensive places. I don't like this either.
I'd rather start simple with a guy and if he wants to please me by taking me to expensive places, I'd happily do the same for him in return. But it would be better if the expensive stuff came a bit later in the dating period.

First we need to understand if we're compatible. Also, I don't agree with dinner of the first date(s). Dinner is intimate and implies more than that. A simple hang out/drink would be enough for a start.
Also the significant pain that can come from the time a dinner takes when you figure out in the first 5 minutes you aren't compatible, they misrepresented themselves, they are rude or obnoxious. Coffee or beer and be done quickly lol
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post #75 of 515 (permalink) Old 03-27-2017, 10:18 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

I was talking about this thread tonight with my sons. The oldest said that men usually *want* to pay on a date, because it is a way of asserting dominance. He said that if the man does not pay, it is not a date.

I think his comment on dominance relates to the building of sexual tension by paying that someone here (@Bananapeel?) alluded to earlier. Now, this is probably only going to work if there is a male dom/fem sub dynamic already present. (Reverse who pays if you are in a domme/male sub relationship.)

So here is a question. For the folks that prefer an even split of some sort, how do you maintain sexual attraction?

ETA: @lovelygirl, please let me know if you consider this a threadjack, and I will be happy to start a separate thread. Very interesting topic, btw. Thank you for starting this discussion!

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man

Last edited by jld; 03-27-2017 at 10:27 PM.
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