Ideal wife has changed? - Page 10 - Talk About Marriage
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post #136 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 10:59 PM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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Originally Posted by Duguesclin View Post
My ideal wife has not changed. I feel grateful she is right here by me.

Now, regarding the wider population of men, I can understand that many would be attracted by a woman that is independent, does not make any demands on him, and is passionately present when he wants her to be. The best person to fulfill that description is probably a male friend. I am not gay, so it is not for me.

I am thankful that the female sex is very different from the male one. Although many men pray every day for females to behave like men, I know it will never work.

The ideal woman may have changed, but the real one is still the same: ready to make demands on you, so you can stop being a selfish ass!
Would you say that men are way more selfish than women?
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post #137 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 06:55 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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Would you say that men are way more selfish than women?
Yes

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post #138 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 07:01 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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It is easy to have that opinion when you have probably never lived outside of your own comfort zone and in a country that has all the mod cons, infrastructure, welfare state, etc etc. To also say it is a first world problem is entirely rubbish. You go to India, China, south east asia, you will find more housekeepers, gardeners, maids, drivers, nannies, home nurses that in any first world area. The question is why?

My goodness, how naÔve. Don't you understand that first world problems don't just take place in first world places? Apparently not, of course they happen in second and third world places as well. That is because the person with the first world problem is living a first world life in a second or third world place. No one said they only occur in modern post industrial societies.
There are a variety of reasons

1. in many families both parents must work or they don't eat, there is no welfare state, public health safety net, NGOs covering for you.
2. Schools start at 7am to 2-3pm, parents are still at work, what do they come home to? A key under the front door mat?
3. People in this part of the world, do not have the kind of labour laws that protect the first world countries, so whether you are in management or on the shop floor, working hours are long, some times people only get home at 9pm or 10pm, who is going to cook and clean? Incidentally unless you are a factory worker there is no overtime either, it is an employers market, you work those hours as that is the expectation.
4. Public transport infrastructure is quite terrible, people can spend anywhere from 2-4 hours commuting every day, they do not have a wife at home keeping things in order. Both leave the house as late as 6.30 am and are only back by 9-10pm, where is the time for gardening, cleaning, etc? For example someone living in Jakarta can take 2-3 hours just to get across the city.
5. Many of the 'support staff' depend heavily on these kind of jobs. In many cases they are part of the family and stay for years, depending for financial and other support
6. For some working in countries like China it is a necessity to have a driver otherwise you will be exhausted and stressed by the time you get to the office as noone follows the laws of the road, in fact people go down the highway the wrong way or around roundabouts the wrong way.

So before you start castigating people using housekeepers etc, try and think of the bigger picture. You cannot take a first world lens and apply it to all and sundry, it is a vary narrow minded thing to do.
Finally if a wife is at home and has lots of kids, if the H can afford it why not get her some help? The H is giving some respite to his wife and providing employment to someone who obviously needs the job.
Finally if it only takes you 1.5 hours to clean and do your yard, either you have a very very small area or you are not doing a very thorough job.
Those are all great examples of reasons why such an arrangement might be possible. But none of them have anything to do with first world problems, now are they? Those are problems of developing nations, very much unlike post-industrial societies.
Finally, I do have a small yard, less than 1/4 of an acre. But keep in mind, even mowing grass and landscaping are first world issues. People living at a subsistence level are not much concerned with whether or not their lawn is weed free.

In essense, stop using your view of the world and imposing it on others.
No, in essence, I would urge you to take posts in context and not apply such a broad brush when interpreting them.
I wonder do you hold a passport?

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Last edited by Ynot; 04-15-2017 at 07:07 AM.
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post #139 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 07:13 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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Originally Posted by aine View Post
Would you say that men are way more selfish than women?
Men Are More Selfish Than Women Study


WASHINGTON - Men tend to be more narcissistic than women and as a result are more likely to exploit others, a US study has said after analyzing three decades of data from more than 475,000 people.

The findings were consistent across multiple age groups and generations, said the University at Buffalo School of Management, pointing out that narcissism has good and bad points.

"Narcissism is associated with various interpersonal dysfunctions, including an inability to maintain healthy long-term relationships, unethical behavior and aggression," said lead author Emily Grijalva, assistant professor of organization and human resources in the UB School of Management.

"At the same time, narcissism is shown to boost self-esteem, emotional stability and the tendency to emerge as a leader."

The researchers examined more than 355 journal articles, dissertations, manuscripts and technical manuals, and studied gender differences in the three aspects of narcissism: leadership/authority, grandiose/exhibitionism and entitlement.

They found the widest gap in entitlement, suggesting that men are more likely than women to exploit others and feel entitled to certain privileges.

The results will be published in the forthcoming Psychological Bulletin journal.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #140 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 07:18 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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Men Are More Selfish Than Women Study


WASHINGTON - Men tend to be more narcissistic than women and as a result are more likely to exploit others, a US study has said after analyzing three decades of data from more than 475,000 people.

The findings were consistent across multiple age groups and generations, said the University at Buffalo School of Management, pointing out that narcissism has good and bad points.

"Narcissism is associated with various interpersonal dysfunctions, including an inability to maintain healthy long-term relationships, unethical behavior and aggression," said lead author Emily Grijalva, assistant professor of organization and human resources in the UB School of Management.

"At the same time, narcissism is shown to boost self-esteem, emotional stability and the tendency to emerge as a leader."

The researchers examined more than 355 journal articles, dissertations, manuscripts and technical manuals, and studied gender differences in the three aspects of narcissism: leadership/authority, grandiose/exhibitionism and entitlement.

They found the widest gap in entitlement, suggesting that men are more likely than women to exploit others and feel entitled to certain privileges.

The results will be published in the forthcoming Psychological Bulletin journal.
Done by a female researcher?
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post #141 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 07:24 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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Originally Posted by chillymorn69 View Post
Done by a female researcher?
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/aa6...864c012198.pdf

Four men in the group, one woman.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #142 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 08:38 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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This type of research is to subjective for any real value
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post #143 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 08:44 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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Originally Posted by chillymorn69 View Post
This type of research is to subjective for any real value
"The gender difference in narcissism (d = .26) is consistent
with some of the larger gender differences discovered in the
personality domain (Hyde, 2014). It is important to note that
the gender difference in narcissism (as measured by the NPI) is
not just a measurement artifact but represents true differences
in the latent trait, driven by menís heightened sense of entitlement
and authority."


Sounds accurate to me.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #144 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 08:46 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
"The gender difference in narcissism (d = .26) is consistent
with some of the larger gender differences discovered in the
personality domain (Hyde, 2014). It is important to note that
the gender difference in narcissism (as measured by the NPI) is
not just a measurement artifact but represents true differences
in the latent trait, driven by menís heightened sense of entitlement
and authority."


Sounds accurate to me.
Have to agree to disagree!
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post #145 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 01:41 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

"First world problems' - I guess your definition and mine are different. FWP refer to matters which are trivial and inconsequential. I would say that the list I made is real and a problem for many people. By your own words you basically say that people in less developed places would not have problems if they lived 'third world' lives. That is ridiculous and demeaning, by saying this you are saying that such people should not aspire to an education for their children, to owning a home, to owning a lawn/garden, to building a career, etc. It sounds to me like you know little of struggle and life has come easy to you. If you choose to live in a small place requiring little effort, etc that is entirely your perogative, just as it is the perogative of others to live the way they choose, with or without help.
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post #146 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 01:44 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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Interesting stuff but logical, men are expected to be the leaders, the winners, etc. Females are groomed n most cultures to be the nurturers, so this is not surprising.
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post #147 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 07:36 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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"First world problems' - I guess your definition and mine are different. FWP refer to matters which are trivial and inconsequential. I would say that the list I made is real and a problem for many people. By your own words you basically say that people in less developed places would not have problems if they lived 'third world' lives. That is ridiculous and demeaning, by saying this you are saying that such people should not aspire to an education for their children, to owning a home, to owning a lawn/garden, to building a career, etc. It sounds to me like you know little of struggle and life has come easy to you. If you choose to live in a small place requiring little effort, etc that is entirely your perogative, just as it is the perogative of others to live the way they choose, with or without help.
The problems you cited are not trivial and meaningless. They are directly related to surviving, which is a far cry from first world problems of how do I spend my excessive leisure time. In fact I am willing to bet that most people in the situations you have listed would love to have the problem of what to do with excess leisure time. I was not talking about people struggling to survive I was talking about the people in well developed countries with FIRST WOLRD PROBLEMS. Your confusion is evident in your attempts to insult me out of your own ignorance (no, I am not calling you ignorant, I am merely stating that in this case you are completely lacking in understanding)
Believe me, I know more about the struggle to live than most people here do. It has nothing to do with not understanding the struggle, in fact it has everything to do WITH understanding the struggle. There are people who are basically enslaved, who wish they could see their children more, who wish they had property to maintain, who wish they had FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS. I am reasonably certain they would not throw away an opportunity to be with their kids or have more property by turning those responsibilities over to someone else to handle.

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post #148 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 01:48 PM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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I feel like this whole independent wife who has her own life thing is hard to achieve and casts impossible expectations on women. Maybe I'm wrong?
So we're suppose to be independent, work, confident, have our own life and work, dress nice and whatever, but at the same time we have to cook/clean/take care of the kids, and still have time to look sexy while having wild sex with our husbands all the time. It seems like we have to do everything. Am I wrong?
Good grief, I do not know any man whose expectations are that high.

It would be great to have a woman who was emotionally secure enough to neither put her man down nor put him on a ridiculous pedestal, respect him, and actively contribute to the marriage. I am sure the vast majority of men would be delighted with that.

How that active contribution manifests is very variable, but I am sure you would expect a man to contribute to the house, financially, to bringing up kids, sexually, and not completely let himself go. That would not make you an evil harpy, so I do not see it would be horrific from a man either. Furthermore, I would expect a man to lay down his life for his woman and put her well being before his own, I would not expect the reverse.

This is not a complaint, in fact it is a depiction of a rare ideal.
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post #149 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:05 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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One theory: contagion
A teaspoon of honey does little for a barrel of tar, but a teaspoon of tar spoils an entire barrel of honey.

Another theory: the four men are married
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post #150 of 156 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 03:07 AM
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Re: Ideal wife has changed?

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
"The gender difference in narcissism (d = .26) is consistent
with some of the larger gender differences discovered in the
personality domain (Hyde, 2014). It is important to note that
the gender difference in narcissism (as measured by the NPI) is
not just a measurement artifact but represents true differences
in the latent trait, driven by menís heightened sense of entitlement
and authority."


Sounds accurate to me.
If men are inherently more selfish, then them being the leader in a relationship would likely be disastrous. It would be exploitative, with little regard for their emotions. I generally expect to be the more selfless, as being the leader means taking responsibility for the relationship, which means taking responsibility for both people.

In a serious relationship, I am not surprised if a woman left one of my friends if they lost their job or became seriously ill. If one of my friends left a committed relationship because their lady lost their job or became seriously ill, I would be horrified at their behaviour. I am not saying that men are more selfless, but the person taking the lead in a relationship must see that as a role calling for a reasonable degree of selflessness.
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