Talk About Marriage banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

So many men are so abused on these and other forums.

14K views 94 replies 46 participants last post by  Ladywolfzzz 
#1 ·
It's the same story over and over, the wife or girlfriend uses their man's natural instinct to protect her to her advantage. It's very sad.
 
#2 ·
I think it is fascinating how people can use "acceptable" behavior, amp it up and, steathily, it becomes abusive.

My mother is like that. I know now when she asks those vague questions like "are you sure that....." and "is it possible that......." she is asking me to make feel uncomfortable and uncertain.
@sokillme, give us some examples of behaviors that can become abusive.
 
#3 ·
No examples. It's just post after post of husbands, and boyfriends whose wives and mates have affairs. Always the same story, social media, old friend, friend from work. How sorry the wives now are. And them men revert to their natural desire to protect their wives and continue to get that used against them. It's very sad.

There always seems to be very little consequence compared to the pain these men feel.
 
#61 ·
I accept it's my comprehension problem but I'm having trouble understanding the issue.

I tend to think people try to rehabilitate their marriage after discovering infidelity because of their emotional and physical investments. I think the betrayed spouse feels fear over the realization of losing the years spent together and their future and security vanishing. They suffer with shame over a failed marriage and damaged self-esteem having been cheated on. Children, if involved, magnifies the panic. Typically it's human nature to resist change and they want the nightmare to disappear.

It seems to me to be a common reaction people have to a complicated significant life event. Gender or instinct doesn't seem to have much to do with it.
 
#4 ·
It is also sad how many women on here, dedicate their whole lives to their husbands, taking care of a family and the home and then they are unceremoniously dumped for a piece of crumpet with no loyalty, no care, empathy consideration. Unfortunately, this is life. In life there are many many people of low character.
 
#5 ·
One of the great things about MW Davis various books Divorce Busting, Sex Starved Marriage, etc. is that a abused spouse can only change themself, but they can change the treatment they will accept and how they will allow their spouse to treat them.

At the depth of my sex starved marriage, my wife was torn. Part of her loved me and part of her was very angry with me. If we did something that made her feel love or have feelings toward me, she would pick fights with me (in an abusive way) so as regain her emotional distance.

I first had to figure out what was happening. Then I needed to figure out that I wasn't going to get angry no matter what she said or did. I needed to simple not let her 'bait me" into a fight. I remember at a nice dinner, she caught herself thinking how great a time she was having and then verbally snapped at me. Rather than getting angry, I just looked at her ans asked her why she said what she had said. I asked what was it that I had specifically done to warrant her saying what she said. She was like a "deer in the headlights." She said she didn't know.

It was hard work to no longer allow myself to be emotionally abused by her, but it paid off. She soon realized that the old things she used to control me and herself no longer worked.

We are all capable of change. We don't need to take abuse.
 
#6 ·
I would agree with you if you changed girlfriend or wife with simply WS and BS. So many women are abused on these and other forums as well. Abuse through infidelity or selfishness is not gender biased, and that is sad but at least equal.

Awareness is key. Classes about the ugly truth instead of the fairytale crap of soulmate and happily ever after should be taught to couples that sign up to get married. It would be ideal if we could make couples who decide to be long term partners even if marriage for them is not necessary would be advised to take these classes as well. It may not avoid selfishness or infidelity, but at least there won't be as many "blindsidedness" going on left and right with BS.
 
#7 ·
Just to clarify, I posted in the men's section to talk about men who are cheated on. There seems to be a particular pattern in the stories that are specific to female cheaters. This is quite obvious when you read enough. There is a pattern to male cheaters as well but that is not the topic of conversation on this post.

This was not to make a gender comparison or any assessment about which sex cheats more. It's unfortunate that so many posts seem to need to point this out. We can all acknowledge that people from both sexes suck.
 
#12 ·
You don't understand. Men can't have problems. Women can have problems. People can have problems. Any discussion of men, however, must be equivocated and have plenty of "of course women too" statements added.

It's the natural tendency of women to gaslight men. You can watch it endlessly, not only on TAM but anywhere.

It's not limited to men and women either. Look at how people freak out in so many threads, when we talk about general trends in a group, immediately interjecting the same whataboutery.
 
#8 ·
That's the thing, I don't see them all that different. Maybe here we finally see more men looking for help and that is why we indeed have a lot.

The forum I joined when my X cheated was the other way around. There were very few men whose wife's had cheated. This was about 14 years ago though. Maybe more men are opening up on public online forums now than they used to be let's say 10 years ago?

That may be the reason why we now see that many cheating women are just as bad as cheating men now and before.

Any way, just a thought.
 
#9 ·
I think men are less willing to share their cheating story with their friends in real life, so probably post more on forums like this.
Some men don't discuss their emotional turmoils with friends and family whereas women usually confide more to their support group.

If you're a woman you're taught not to stay with a man who cheats, you're taught by magazines or your friends how to cope with it. Men are less likely to discuss these issues and suffer I would say emotionally more than women.



Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk
 
#21 · (Edited)
Interesting. Makes some sense.

I am amazed that there are so many women who do this though. It's the same thing over and over. I guess though it could be true that it always happened it's just that is much more visible with the internet. I also think the idea that women are the fairer sex is is a kind of fallacy that the media perpetrates, Men are Dogs, Women are victims. I used to believe that, now I think both are dogs and both are victims.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BruceBanner
#13 · (Edited)
One of the saddest stories I ever read was on another forum years ago.

it was an ongoing story of an older guy, very successful engineer in his profession.
but, early on in his marriage, he caught his wife in a car with another man doing
bad things. His wife, rather than being embarrassed and sorrowful instead turned on him.

she turned cold as ice, spiteful and hateful. She never hinted at divorce, but never, ever
again let him touch her, not even a kiss or hug after 30 years.

to make this even sadder, this guy would groan every chance he got about how he
would love to have just one hug from his wife. The forum population would bash him
and exhort him to leave her, but he just wouldnt.

Instead, he would just go on and on about how and why his wife could treat him this
way.

now, I know what some of you might be thinking.........it's his own fault!

Yes, of course, but doesn't make it any less tragic. And how would you like to be the wife,
carrying all that hate all these years?
 
#55 ·
One of the saddest stories I ever read was on another forum years ago.

it was an ongoing story of an older guy, very successful engineer in his profession.
but, early on in his marriage, he caught his wife in a car with another man doing
bad things. His wife, rather than being embarrassed and sorrowful instead turned on him.

she turned cold as ice, spiteful and hateful. She never hinted at divorce, but never, ever
again let him touch her, not even a kiss or hug after 30 years.

to make this even sadder, this guy would groan every chance he got about how he
would love to have just one hug from his wife. The forum population would bash him
and exhort him to leave her, but he just wouldnt.
30+ years ago it is possible the financials of divorce would have left him literally living in a trailer while his ex-w got the house and alimony. My ex-FIL was in this position, and his wife regularly reminded him of it. She would threaten to take the kids and all his money if he didn't cower to her. She was a SAHM, he was a successful engineer back in the 60's through the 80's. In those days an engineer's pay would nicely support a family.

In those days, he would be lucky to have enough left over after divorce to rent a small apartment and eat.
 
#14 ·
I think factors like liberalism, feminism, and low self-esteem have emasculated so many of these men who show up on forums like this. The "controlling card" gets played against them and they have no idea how to react to it. When their cheating wives accuse them of being controlling, they seem to have no idea on how to shut that down. They feel bad for snooping on their wives and express how awful it makes them feel. They grovel and chase after their cheating wives to R at any cost. For every 10 betrayed husbands, it seems only about 3 have the courage to kick their cheating wives to the curb. The rest make excuses to justify their R: staying for the kids, too many years have been invested in their marriage, they made a vow to stay through thick and thin, etc. These reasons seem noble on the surface but if we dig a little deeper, we often find that these husbands are codependent and scared of what is out there. The worst has to be the husbands who allow themselves to be cuckolded while their wives flaunt their affairs in their face.
 
#22 ·
Do you think this contributes to the type of women they marry? I do. Now I am talking here about the most extreme examples.

I believe it is the lack of having a Father figure in their youth. I think that is the role that teaches both sexes about this kind of stuff. It is in the Mother's instinct to protect their child (this is normal and healthy, it's in most mothers nature), the Father usually pushes and is less accommodating, lets them suffer consequences longer. Also I don't know about you but I was much more afraid of my Dad then my Mom, and that created motivation. That creates confidence and strength in people. Plus it provides an example of a strong man.
 
#15 ·
My take on the root causes of the spread of this weakness, where men put up with such things is a combination of single motherhood, and the naturally unbalanced character that will inspire in boys, mixed with all of the "toxic masculinity" commentary constantly acting as if by being male you are defective.

We can trace a lot of this back to feminism and no-fault divorce, which led to the ridiculous mistreatment of men by the Justice System, rewarded single motherhood, rewarded women who take advantage of their husbands, and forced men out of their sons lives. We've seen 3+ generations of this, so now a large number of men never had any men to lead them out of their childhood and into manhood.

These boys were raised by women who were sucking the life out of them as children, in a sick, vampiric fashion. It is only natural that they would marry similar women to their own mothers. And because their mothers did this to them, they don't know how to stop it, nor do they even believe they should. It's normal to them.

No matter what women want to say with their "you go girl!" "we're just as great as men at everything!" slogans, women will never be capable of raising men. That requires men. It would be like asking a fish to teach a squirrel to climb trees.
 
#17 ·
My take on the root causes of the spread of this weakness, where men put up with such things is a combination of single motherhood, and the naturally unbalanced character that will inspire in boys, mixed with all of the "toxic masculinity" commentary constantly acting as if by being male you are defective.

.
This is where I say it's men's faults. there would not be so many single moms if men simply ignored them.

In the olden days, there was a sense when women had children out of wedlock and they were considered "damaged goods." Even in the '70s when I was a teenager, my parents put the fear of god in me. No man would ever consider me for marriage if I ever had a child out of wedlock.

These days, men think women with babies are hot. so why wouldn't more and more single women use men as sperm donors or think of their marriage as a starter marriage to hurry up, have kids and then get the guy they really want.

I remember in my 20s how a guy passed me over for a single mom. She was in high school with my brother and still partying until her water broke. That's when I learned, never assume that I know what a man wants or needs.
 
#31 ·
I completely agree that this thread is for focusing specifically on the plight of men who have been abused. If you want to talk about abused women, another thread should be made for that. It's irrelevant to this thread's focus.

The abuse of men is definitely far more widespread than anyone is willing to admit. It's not given the spotlight it needs or deserves. I can think of 3 friends of mine over the years who have been in an a physically abusive relationship with a woman and many more who have been in emotionally abusive relationships. Not a single one of them was raised by a single mom with an absent father. In fact, a guy I know who just recently moved in with his girlfriend who punches him in the face when she is angry was raised in a two parent home with a dad who was a lifelong farmer - the strong and silent type. But guess what? His mom was a harpy who screamed at his dad and the kids their whole life so guess how well that turned out for him? Assuming every abused male was raised without a strong father figure around is just that - an assumption. So the real question we should be asking is why are these men, ones with strong dads around, putting up with this kind of treatment? It's easy to see why men who were raised to be codependent continue to go down that road but why do other men accept so little for themselves? And how about the men that aren't abused but are very much neglected? How many times do we see men who would walk over hot coals for a kiss from their wife while she snubs him for wanting so much as to hold hands for years? I wouldn't put up with that situation for a single month without consulting a either a counselor or a divorce lawyer. So why do they accept so little for themselves?

I don't think this problem is as simple as blaming it on one specific influence whether that be helicopter/emotionally incestuous moms, deadbeat dads, or (particularly 2nd wave) feminism. I think all of those things play some sort of role that is unique to every abused man but don't explain why seemingly healthy men with solid childhoods can fall victim to an abusive or neglectful partner. I think there might be answers deeper in the message society tells men about their worth that can affect this too and specifically what it means for their role as a spouse - something that makes them fundamentally believe that they don't deserve better than what they get or that their marriage is worth sacrificing themselves for. I think that there is also this myth that women aren't really capable of hurting a man or that men should be able to shake off emotional abuse if they really want to. Combine that with the fact that there are very few resources aimed at helping men out of toxic home lives and that many people including police officers just don't think that their spouses could really be a threat, being in that situation must be extremely isolating.

IME with online support groups, I have found that men in toxic marriages are the most likely to cover for their abusive spouse. In fact it got so predictable with some members that if they stopped posting for a few days, I knew that their wives had turned their home into a war zone and that I'd read the highlights of it whenever it ended. I wonder if this is the side effect of putting these harpies on a pedestal and protecting their reputation or embarrassment or wanting to handle the situation without outside help. Probably all three. It's not like there weren't some similarities with the women victims but I found that men tended to be far more likely to hold on to the notion that deep down, their wife was actually perfect and amazing any time she wasn't being abusive instead of accepting that it was all a show to keep him under her control. I have to wonder if since most public awareness of abuse has been hyper focused on abused women, maybe it's easier for women to come to grips with the idea that their husband is actually a colossal douche masquerading in tinfoil at the end of the day while abused men fall into the pitfalls of thinking the "perfect wife" is the real person they married and the "harpy" is just something they have to put up with to keep their "perfect wife" instead of realizing that they're married to a harpy with a human mask.
 
#32 ·
The abuse of men is definitely far more widespread than anyone is willing to admit. It's not given the spotlight it needs or deserves. I can think of 3 friends of mine over the years who have been in an a physically abusive relationship with a woman and many more who have been in emotionally abusive relationships. Not a single one of them was raised by a single mom with an absent father. In fact, a guy I know who just recently moved in with his girlfriend who punches him in the face when she is angry was raised in a two parent home with a dad who was a lifelong farmer - the strong and silent type. But guess what? His mom was a harpy who screamed at his dad and the kids their whole life so guess how well that turned out for him? Assuming every abused male was raised without a strong father figure around is just that - an assumption.

This seems contradictory to your point. A strong father figure would not support this behavior from his wife. This seems to indicate that your friend's relationship is replicating his parents'. His mother was verbally abusive, he ended up with a woman who's emotionally abusive.
 
#33 ·
That is a good point. I'm demonstrating that his father was exactly the kind of man you would expect to be strong and did teach his son how to work a farm, survive in the wilderness, and the importance of hard work but did cater to his wife far too much. So does his relationship with his wife make him a fundamentally weak man despite him having all the other typically masculine features?
 
#34 ·
That's all well and good to have strong survival skills, certainly admirable. But did his father teach him to respect himself, to establish boundaries. Did he demonstrate good communication and healthy husband-wife interaction? I think taking a passive stance towards excessive yelling directed at you and your children, isn't setting a great example. I would also think that his mom's yelling was a symptom of a bigger problem. It would not be surprising if his mom was controlling with her husband and children.
 
#36 ·
I am not posting this to pander to females, feminists etc....But...given the choice. I would never be female. If a man's life isn't what he wants it to be thats on him. If you're a man then be a man. Change your situation. If your wife cheats then leave. For all the talk of men being abused, I feel like a lot of us have forgotten how to be men.
 
#40 ·
It is surely a man problem no doubt. Many of us don't lead anymore. Many of us are pushovers. Many of us buy the whole toxic masculinity garbage. I really am not a big fan of those men, they have made my life harder.
 
#37 ·
I just got back from an event with dozens of families, and I can say with 100% certainty that many women are mistreated by their husbands as well. I heard stories about husbands who won't stop their excessive drinking (Why do you always want to stop my fun?), won't help out with the kids, and another who gets so angry that his young son frequently begs him to "leave mom alone!"

So I get that there are husbands whose wives are awful, but I also know that there are moms facing the VERY scary reality of how to care for themselves and their little ones while their husbands refuse to grow up.
 
#42 ·
I agree that there are some women who do not treat their husbands well. I have no idea what percentage of the entire married female population that is. But I don't think it's a huge percentage.

The people who post on TAM are a self-selected group. Men come here a particular type of support from the other men on TAM. I think that resonated with them and so they stay here.

TAM is not representative of society as a whole because very few people ever even find TAM.

It's easy to let all these stories on TAM make us think that this is what our entire population is like. It's not. It's important to keep that in perspective.

With that said, it is sad to see so many men with these sort of issues. Just as it's sad to see so many women coming here with issues. There are just some rotten people on the face of this earth.
 
#45 ·
Since this is about men, I just want to say that I agree. I personally dislike seeing men being taken advantage of. Someone else made a point I agreed with. Men are lacking good role models. I've always had good relationships with men in general, because I never expected special treatment. I always needed accomplishments to be based on my own merit. My father was an excellent role model and I believe it's because of him that I have the attitude about people that I did whilst growing up and still do today.

I try not to get too bogged down in the trends of the board. Sometimes it's necessary to take a break.
 
#46 ·
Good discussion. I agree with many of the posts here. I think there are a number of issues at play. First off TAM is a self selected group, so it stands to reason that you would find more tales about a broken or ailing marriage due to abuse. Second off, I think more men would tend to come here, because in real life, men do NOT have anywhere near the support network that women have. There really is not a male equivalent to the "you go girl!" mentality that women coalesce towards.
Which brings me to my last point - men don't chose to be abused. I don't think anyone does. However, we are taught to accept it as normal. Even in homes with strong male leads, society at large is constantly reinforcing negative images of what males are. Typical TV sit com usually revolves around a strong woman having to deal with hapless, immature men. No fault divorce was instituted allowing women more freedom, but support and custody laws have taken years to catch up, if they have at all.
People can say, we men forget to that we are men, but if you never learned it, how can you forget it?
 
#48 ·
Interesting topic.
Is there some data on it? So far from what I have been reading, the gap seems really close.

Physical violence is one thing though but how does one quantify emotional abuse objectively...Seems impossible.

"From this information researchers found that of the 18,761 relationships, 76 percent were non-violent and 24 percent were violent. Of the 24 percent that were violent, half had been reciprocal and half had not — reciprocal meaning there was violence inflicted by both partners. Although more men than women (53 percent versus 49 percent) had experienced nonreciprocal violent relationships, more women than men (52 percent versus 47 percent) had taken part in ones involving reciprocal violence.

This statistic was undoubtedly the most striking: in committing acts of domestic violence, more women than men (25 percent versus 11 percent) were responsible. In fact, in the 71 percent of nonreciprocal partner violence instances, the instigator was the woman. This flies in the face of the long-held belief that female aggression in a relationship is most often predicated on self-defense."

http://www.mintpressnews.com/woman-aggressor-unspoken-truth-domestic-violence/196746/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#56 ·
Interesting topic.
Is there some data on it? So far from what I have been reading, the gap seems really close.

Physical violence is one thing though but how does one quantify emotional abuse objectively...Seems impossible.

"From this information researchers found that of the 18,761 relationships, 76 percent were non-violent and 24 percent were violent. Of the 24 percent that were violent, half had been reciprocal and half had not — reciprocal meaning there was violence inflicted by both partners. Although more men than women (53 percent versus 49 percent) had experienced nonreciprocal violent relationships, more women than men (52 percent versus 47 percent) had taken part in ones involving reciprocal violence.

This statistic was undoubtedly the most striking: in committing acts of domestic violence, more women than men (25 percent versus 11 percent) were responsible. In fact, in the 71 percent of nonreciprocal partner violence instances, the instigator was the woman. This flies in the face of the long-held belief that female aggression in a relationship is most often predicated on self-defense."

Woman As Aggressor: The Unspoken Truth Of Domestic Violence
I know that this thread is not really about physical abuse. It’s more about infidelity and emotional abuse. But you brought this up so I’ll dress it briefly.

My impression is that for the last few decades a lot of effort has gone into addressing domestic violence against women. There was a need for that because the incidence of abuse was very high and society, to include the police, accepted it as normal.

The problem is that some women have twisted this to mean that women can hit and be abusive of men, while men cannot do that. How often do we hear things like “real men do not hit women” vs “real women do not hit men”?

As a society, now that the level of abuse of women is way down compared to in the past, we need to push the idea that abuse of any form is not ok regardless of gender.
 
#50 ·
I could find this:

• The 1857 Matrimonial Causes Act allowed ordinary people to divorce. Before then, divorce was largely open only to men, and had to be granted by an Act of Parliament, which was hugely expensive, and therefore was also open only to the rich. (Long before then, of course, Henry VIII was granted a divorce by the Archbishop of Canterbury, and church courts retained the power to dissolve marriages.)

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/19/divorce-law-history


So about 120 years ago. That's not to say it was easy!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top