Start paying close attention to her:
- Body language
- Facial expressions
- TONE of voice
Those 3 things mean as much as her words. Maybe more.
And then start looking for "triggers". A trigger is anything that you can clearly tie to a noticeable mood change for her. This could either be a happiness trigger or an anger/sadness trigger.
Most of what makes my W happy/sad/angry is completely normal rational. As for the stuff that is not. If it isn't hard to do/avoid doing I make the effort. It isn't about right or wrong at that point. Just "what works".
But if I observe a trigger that is maybe not easy for her to justify I don't bring it up or make a fuss about it. I just AVOID doing it as long as it is a little thing.
"Can you please move that over there?" And Im stuck looking puzzled, because I have been staring at the computer screen not knowing what she's talking about.
In this scenario, asking her, "Move what, where?" is a trigger. So now I just look at her, and ask, "Sorry, what did you say?" and she will usually point, and I can help... Sometimes she maintains her vagueness, and we end up arguing. She saying I dont listen, and me saying, "WTF?"
Sock,
I am always reading. Always. So I have gently persuaded her to create a transition. She may say "may I interrupt your reading"? Or something like that. And I look up, close my book, smile and say "sure". And then she speaks and usually I understand what she says the first time.
When she forgets to do that I usually have a request similar to yours.
QUOTE=SockPuppet;543007]Sometime my wife is very vague in her speech.
"Can you please move that over there?" And Im stuck looking puzzled, because I have been staring at the computer screen not knowing what she's talking about.
In this scenario, asking her, "Move what, where?" is a trigger. So now I just look at her, and ask, "Sorry, what did you say?" and she will usually point, and I can help... Sometimes she maintains her vagueness, and we end up arguing. She saying I dont listen, and me saying, "WTF?" [/QUOTE] Posted via Mobile Device
I think it best for a man to think of his wife as a welcomed alien in his world. She’s not designed to be understood like the internal combustion engine, a computer, nuclear fusion etc. With those things you can get to a point of total understanding even to the point of becoming an expert. And even with some men, we know as a man we instinctively understand them. But with your wife, no you will never totally understand her, you will never be an expert on your wife. It just does not happen.
And why doesn’t it happen? First off they don’t follow any rules of communication, unless they want to. This may be dependent on the time of the month (forget all PC stuff in these things, women can be emotional creatures), as to whether they’re “losing” the argument, if it suits their objectives etc. etc. So next time you’re in front of your alien think “This alien does not follow rules”. At least not a man’s rules.
Just when you think you’ve understood this alien in your world, it all changes. Something has happened in her world that you know nothing about and guess what, yes she has changed the rules. All those dominoes you had neatly stacked up along side one another are thrown about in total confusion. Which leaves you in a state of confusion. And you wont know the reason why, don’t worry it’s normal. She may well tell you it was something you did 20 years ago, but don’t believe her as that’s not the real reason.
So just be aware, like MEM, of what your alien is doing and how she is doing it. It is more about that than it is about the words she speaks. These aliens communicate by body language as well as by words and there is very much more in the former than there is in the latter. And think that what was true yesterday may well not be true, even opposite or of value today, so you need to be Aware every single day. To help with this read Awareness (Anthony de Mello) Awareness: Amazon.co.uk: Anthony De Mello: 9780006275190: Books.
There’s an old Chinese saying “If you haven’t seen your friend for three days take a careful look, they may have changed”. Nothing can be more true than with your wife, just that you need to look every single day. It only takes a few minutes with just a smile on your face to check her out without saying anything. She will see you looking and she will see the calm smile and she may well ask “What’s up?”.
Just tell her you're checking her out to see if all’s ok. She may well go into a monologue about her world and that is seriously good as it means she’s connected to you at the emotional level and feels truly safe and secure in your company. If you feel yourself losing track, stifling a yawn, forgetting what was said, wondering when she’s going to get to the point and desperate to offer up multiple solutions don’t worry as again they’re all normal male responses to these aliens.
You may well feel like a wreck at the end of it as if you’ve run a marathon but your wife will feel magnificently refreshed, empowered and deeply in love with you, because you listened and you understood (you probably did neither of these). Don’t worry, it’s all par for the course. And think of that golf Book of Rules and then burn it and go and play golf. That’s a pretty good analogy.
Of course depending on your job and the other things going on in your world these things can be difficult. It’s juggling balls and sometimes we have many to keep in the air. But think on yourself as King in your world, your world, nobody else’s. And when you are checking your wife out in this way you are playing the role of a Sentinel in your world, at attention and checking out your world is ok with your wife and your wife’s world is ok with her. Do these things and there isn’t much that will slip by you. And after all your wife is probably the most important person in your world.
And if you get it right that alien will bring to you all the gifts she has to bear, her sensitivity, affection, sex, care, thoughtfulness amongst many other things your particular alien specialises in.
Sock,
I am always reading. Always. So I have gently persuaded her to create a transition. She may say "may I interrupt your reading"? Or something like that. And I look up, close my book, smile and say "sure". And then she speaks and usually I understand what she says the first time.
When she forgets to do that I usually have a request similar to yours.
Posted via Mobile Device
I was about to post something similar. Also, I don't continue looking at the computer, TV, or book once she has my attention. That way after a while she knew that if I'm still doing whatever it is I was doing when she started talking I wasn't aware that we are in a conversation. She will then do something to get my attention.
Start paying close attention to her:
- Body language
- Facial expressions
- TONE of voice
Those 3 things mean as much as her words. Maybe more.
And then start looking for "triggers". A trigger is anything that you can clearly tie to a noticeable mood change for her. This could either be a happiness trigger or an anger/sadness trigger.
Most of what makes my W happy/sad/angry is completely normal rational. As for the stuff that is not. If it isn't hard to do/avoid doing I make the effort. It isn't about right or wrong at that point. Just "what works".
But if I observe a trigger that is maybe not easy for her to justify I don't bring it up or make a fuss about it. I just AVOID doing it as long as it is a little thing.
I'm keen as can be on the observation part, but I'm more than a little puzzled about what to do with my readings. My w's body language and tone are unrelentingly awful. The only conclusion I can objectively draw from this is that she is always unhappy, doesn't want to be married, doesn't want to be a mother and only does any wife or mother stuff because she is forced to.
I know I'm on thin ice here, but I consciously ignore all these data points and treat her the way I would like to be treated. I see myself as an infantry soldier slogging through enemy fire acting out of the conviction that my side will win.
I can only guess, but it appears that this may be some kind of misplaced idea of female assertiveness. Is there something else I should be doing with this?
Bob,
I like and respect you. We clearly married different women.
My W really is my best friend. And she is consistent. While much of what you post is true the "overall" does not compute for me.
She DOES fitness test me now and then. But she follows basic rules of engagement in conflict and fights fair.
OTE=AFEH;543135]I think it best for a man to think of his wife as a welcomed alien in his world. She’s not designed to be understood like the internal combustion engine, a computer, nuclear fusion etc. With those things you can get to a point of total understanding even to the point of becoming an expert. And even with some men, we know as a man we instinctively understand them. But with your wife, no you will never totally understand her, you will never be an expert on your wife. It just does not happen.
And why doesn’t it happen? First off they don’t follow any rules of communication, unless they want to. This may be dependent on the time of the month (forget all PC stuff in these things, women can be emotional creatures), as to whether they’re “losing” the argument, if it suits their objectives etc. etc. So next time you’re in front of your alien think “This alien does not follow rules”. At least not a man’s rules.
Just when you think you’ve understood this alien in your world, it all changes. Something has happened in her world that you know nothing about and guess what, yes she has changed the rules. All those dominoes you had neatly stacked up along side one another are thrown about in total confusion. Which leaves you in a state of confusion. And you wont know the reason why, don’t worry it’s normal. She may well tell you it was something you did 20 years ago, but don’t believe her as that’s not the real reason.
So just be aware, like MEM, of what your alien is doing and how she is doing it. It is more about that than it is about the words she speaks. These aliens communicate by body language as well as by words and there is very much more in the former than there is in the latter. And think that what was true yesterday may well not be true, even opposite or of value today, so you need to be Aware every single day. To help with this read Awareness (Anthony de Mello) Awareness: Amazon.co.uk: Anthony De Mello: 9780006275190: Books.
There’s an old Chinese saying “If you haven’t seen your friend for three days take a careful look, they may have changed”. Nothing can be more true than with your wife, just that you need to look every single day. It only takes a few minutes with just a smile on your face to check her out without saying anything. She will see you looking and she will see the calm smile and she may well ask “What’s up?”.
Just tell her you're checking her out to see if all’s ok. She may well go into a monologue about her world and that is seriously good as it means she’s connected to you at the emotional level and feels truly safe and secure in your company. If you feel yourself losing track, stifling a yawn, forgetting what was said, wondering when she’s going to get to the point and desperate to offer up multiple solutions don’t worry as again they’re all normal male responses to these aliens.
You may well feel like a wreck at the end of it as if you’ve run a marathon but your wife will feel magnificently refreshed, empowered and deeply in love with you, because you listened and you understood (you probably did neither of these). Don’t worry, it’s all par for the course. And think of that golf Book of Rules and then burn it and go and play golf. That’s a pretty good analogy.
Of course depending on your job and the other things going on in your world these things can be difficult. It’s juggling balls and sometimes we have many to keep in the air. But think on yourself as King in your world, your world, nobody else’s. And when you are checking your wife out in this way you are playing the role of a Sentinel in your world, at attention and checking out your world is ok with your wife and your wife’s world is ok with her. Do these things and there isn’t much that will slip by you. And after all your wife is probably the most important person in your world.
And if you get it right that alien will bring to you all the gifts she has to bear, her sensitivity, affection, sex, care, thoughtfulness amongst many other things your particular alien specialises in.[/QUOTE] Posted via Mobile Device
Ten,
Your situation assessment skills are well developed. You simply refuse to enforce your boundaries. This has nothing to do with "understanding" and everything to do with allowing yourself to be treated very poorly.
OTE=Ten_year_hubby;543823]I'm keen as can be on the observation part, but I'm more than a little puzzled about what to do with my readings. My w's body language and tone are unrelentingly awful. The only conclusion I can objectively draw from this is that she is always unhappy, doesn't want to be married, doesn't want to be a mother and only does any wife or mother stuff because she is forced to.
I know I'm on thin ice here, but I consciously ignore all these data points and treat her the way I would like to be treated. I see myself as an infantry soldier slogging through enemy fire acting out of the conviction that my side will win.
I can only guess, but it appears that this may be some kind of misplaced idea of female assertiveness. Is there something else I should be doing with this?[/QUOTE] Posted via Mobile Device
Bob,
I like and respect you. We clearly married different women.
My W really is my best friend. And she is consistent. While much of what you post is true the "overall" does not compute for me.
She DOES fitness test me now and then. But she follows basic rules of engagement in conflict and fights fair.
Hi MEM,
My post was in no way a dig at you or your wife or anyone, my apologies to you if it came across that way.
It was a reflection on the changes I saw my wife go through from courting, menstruation, pregnancy, nursing, loss of loved ones, operations, near death experiences, menopause etc. and the effect those changes had on communication and understanding. She’ll be 60 in a few days time which I know will bring with it it’s own change.
If I’d thought of her ways of communicating as emanating from an alien as opposed to emanating from a man (yes, I thought my wife communicated in the same way I did, as a man) I’m sure I’d have handled some things a lot better.
I’m one who believes there are massive differences between the sexes, male and female, the masculine and the feminine. Most especially in the way that they communicate and nowhere is that more apparent than within a marriage.
I do the same. If have my attention, i give you my undivided attention.
UOTE=Kobo;543193]I was about to post something similar. Also, I don't continue looking at the computer, TV, or book once she has my attention. That way after a while she knew that if I'm still doing whatever it is I was doing when she started talking I wasn't aware that we are in a conversation. She will then do something to get my attention.[/QUOTE] Posted via Mobile Device
Bob,
No offense taken. My w and I used to have tense conflict about male female communication styles. We dragged each other to the middle.
OTE=AFEH;544385]Hi MEM,
My post was in no way a dig at you or your wife or anyone, my apologies to you if it came across that way.
It was a reflection on the changes I saw my wife go through from courting, menstruation, pregnancy, nursing, loss of loved ones, operations, near death experiences, menopause etc. and the effect those changes had on communication and understanding. She’ll be 60 in a few days time which I know will bring with it it’s own change.
If I’d thought of her ways of communicating as emanating from an alien as opposed to emanating from a man (yes, I thought my wife communicated in the same way I did, as a man) I’m sure I’d have handled some things a lot better.
I’m one who believes there are massive differences between the sexes, male and female, the masculine and the feminine. Most especially in the way that they communicate and nowhere is that more apparent than within a marriage.[/QUOTE] Posted via Mobile Device
My OH says I am like an open book. Very easy to read. He has at times been able to come up with what I am thinking and the why before I have even known it myself.
I am very conscious of my body language. I am naturally a very shy person and that can result in a lot of "closed" body language which can appear aloof when I haven't meant it to. OH picks up on a lot and I don't always have to say what I feel as he's got it already.
Conversely he can be so incredibly ignorant I do not understand it! We have had in-depth discussions about issues and later on down the line he swears blind I NEVER conveyed that info and the conversation NEVER took place! Frustrating when I have made a particular effort to discuss something, rather than being closed off abd harbouring things. I have yet to understand how he can participate and engage himself in such a conversation yet practically accuse me of having invented the fact we ever talked about it! Posted via Mobile Device
My OH says I am like an open book. Very easy to read. He has at times been able to come up with what I am thinking and the why before I have even known it myself.
I am very conscious of my body language. I am naturally a very shy person and that can result in a lot of "closed" body language which can appear aloof when I haven't meant it to. OH picks up on a lot and I don't always have to say what I feel as he's got it already.
Conversely he can be so incredibly ignorant I do not understand it! We have had in-depth discussions about issues and later on down the line he swears blind I NEVER conveyed that info and the conversation NEVER took place! Frustrating when I have made a particular effort to discuss something, rather than being closed off abd harbouring things. I have yet to understand how he can participate and engage himself in such a conversation yet practically accuse me of having invented the fact we ever talked about it! Posted via Mobile Device
People can be absent minded. My wife swears she tells me things when she hasn't. I think she makes a note in her mind that she needs to tell me something and then life happens. I would suggest doing follow ups the next day or an email about something you happened to "think of" regarding last nights conversation.
Hi MEM,
My post was in no way a dig at you or your wife or anyone, my apologies to you if it came across that way.
It was a reflection on the changes I saw my wife go through from courting, menstruation, pregnancy, nursing, loss of loved ones, operations, near death experiences, menopause etc. and the effect those changes had on communication and understanding. She’ll be 60 in a few days time which I know will bring with it it’s own change.
If I’d thought of her ways of communicating as emanating from an alien as opposed to emanating from a man (yes, I thought my wife communicated in the same way I did, as a man) I’m sure I’d have handled some things a lot better.
I’m one who believes there are massive differences between the sexes, male and female, the masculine and the feminine. Most especially in the way that they communicate and nowhere is that more apparent than within a marriage.
I do believe that my wife's reactions and communications have changed more than mine have. This is partly do to physical changes (including the birth of three kids), partly due to her extended family (father passing, mother ill), and partly due to her role in our relationship changing more than mine (girlfriend, to wife, to SAHM mother). I have learned to be more observant of her to make sure I understand how she is likely to react to the situations. When she reacts differently, I consider in part whether a change in her circumstance led to that change in reaction. I then adjust accordingly.
Our communication styles have moved closer to each other, but will never be the same. For at least us, we think about things differently. My job is to try and think about things they way she would, at least a little. So far, that has made a world of difference.
If you don't understand your "W" 
