I would suggest working on the attitude that you will survive if she goes. You can want her to stay, but at the same time recognize that life will go on if she leaves. Being at peace with that and knowing that the sun will still rise if it happen is important. In a sense, you love becomes a gift, as it is something you want to give rather than something you have to give.
I reached that tude back in January after being in limbo. I told her in MC that we either needed to start living together some of the time, or I needed to move on. I accepted that I can survive without her. I don't want to, but will. My point is that I want us to both be happy and if she can't be happy with me, than let me find someone who wants to be.
She agreed and is now claiming that this weekend time together is a good test on how we are together. We have always been good together in my eyes, but however she wants to spin it, we are moving in a direction.
I see the fun loving suggestions in the book that I dream about having with her, but it seems so far off before she will play with me like that at this point. I may have to test a few to see if I can get her good chemicals to release for me.
This,
All those chemicals are linked to excitement. And ALL excitement contains an element of fear. You deprive her of fear and thereby of excitement by managing all your behavior around your fear of losing her. Mostly women say they want to feel safe when they are getting a pure beta espouse pattern from their partner.
I have found the best way for her to feel "safe" is to let her experience "free fall" for as long as SHE wants and then rescue her when she wants to be rescued.
Your W isn't experiencing any free fall knowing you are sitting home hoping she returns.
If you told her that you both needed to date other people for a few months - that would get a chemical reaction.
UOTE=This is me;597111]I reached that tude back in January after being in limbo. I told her in MC that we either needed to start living together some of the time, or I needed to move on. I accepted that I can survive without her. I don't want to, but will. My point is that I want us to both be happy and if she can't be happy with me, than let me find someone who wants to be.
She agreed and is now claiming that this weekend time together is a good test on how we are together. We have always been good together in my eyes, but however she wants to spin it, we are moving in a direction.
I see the fun loving suggestions in the book that I dream about having with her, but it seems so far off before she will play with me like that at this point. I may have to test a few to see if I can get her good chemicals to release for me.[/QUOTE] Posted via Mobile Device
[QUOTE=MEM11363;597162]This,
All those chemicals are linked to excitement. And ALL excitement contains an element of fear. You deprive her of fear and thereby of excitement by managing all your behavior around your fear of losing her. Mostly women say they want to feel safe when they are getting a pure beta espouse pattern from their partner.
I have found the best way for her to feel "safe" is to let her experience "free fall" for as long as SHE wants and then rescue her when she wants to be rescued.
Your W isn't experiencing any free fall knowing you are sitting home hoping she returns.
If you told her that you both needed to date other people for a few months - that would get a chemical reaction.[QUOTE]
Thanks MEM, I appreciate the feedback and can see what you are saying. It is odd when you think abou that giving fear can actually make her feel safe. I get it though.
I think I gave her a sense of the free fall when I told her we need to move on or she moves back to some degree. She actually showed caring emotion and sadness to me when she got the message I was ready to move on.
Sadly she falls back a little to the uninterested seperated wife role once the dust settles from me saying lets move on, this has happened several times in the past year. Not sure how to make it stick.
Hmm you got me thinking about the dating others scenerio. So the question is would it be a blind threat or an actual plan. Not sure our MC would agree to it being the best move.
File for divorce. It won't be finalized for months to come but it will end your stay in limbo and will settle once and for all if the marriage will be saved or end.
This,
You produce excitement, start to get a response and immediately move to reassure her that you are waiting for her thereby killing the effect.
By waitIng on her open ended timeline you have basically abdicated control of your life.
To break the pattern you send her an outline of divorce terms, tell her you are going to begin dating effective immediately and suggest she does the same.
Tell her you are weary of being her plan B and will be looking for someone who doesnt perceive kindness and patience as weakness.
And then don't let her come back into your life without coming into your bed first.
UOTE=This is me;597275][QUOTE=MEM11363;597162]This,
All those chemicals are linked to excitement. And ALL excitement contains an element of fear. You deprive her of fear and thereby of excitement by managing all your behavior around your fear of losing her. Mostly women say they want to feel safe when they are getting a pure beta espouse pattern from their partner.
I have found the best way for her to feel "safe" is to let her experience "free fall" for as long as SHE wants and then rescue her when she wants to be rescued.
Your W isn't experiencing any free fall knowing you are sitting home hoping she returns.
If you told her that you both needed to date other people for a few months - that would get a chemical reaction.
Quote:
Thanks MEM, I appreciate the feedback and can see what you are saying. It is odd when you think abou that giving fear can actually make her feel safe. I get it though.
I think I gave her a sense of the free fall when I told her we need to move on or she moves back to some degree. She actually showed caring emotion and sadness to me when she got the message I was ready to move on.
Sadly she falls back a little to the uninterested seperated wife role once the dust settles from me saying lets move on, this has happened several times in the past year. Not sure how to make it stick.
Hmm you got me thinking about the dating others scenerio. So the question is would it be a blind threat or an actual plan. Not sure our MC would agree to it being the best move.
It is interesting all the different advice that is out there. I was reading Divorce Busters today which advises taking it slow and having patience in this situation, which seems to be a mid life crisis. To look for positive signs, which I have seen. Could take months, could take years, but the bottom line is to save the marriage.
Our MC who is also advising to give her time to work through it.
Then there is the option to just move on, which I have done, it had an effect and got her to compromise and spend more time to test the waters and changes. Seems to be a step in the right direction.
Not sure this is the time to file for divorce, that option is on the table and we have already agreed to make in amicable if it gets to that.
I guess I was looking for something that would work within the current situation of weekend visits (which has been a positive step) that can help her gain the safety she is looking for to help her gain the love and chemical release, other the the final straw free fall?
It is interesting all the different advice that is out there. I was reading Divorce Busters today which advises taking it slow and having patience in this situation, which seems to be a mid life crisis. To look for positive signs, which I have seen. Could take months, could take years, but the bottom line is to save the marriage.
Our MC who is also advising to give her time to work through it.
Then there is the option to just move on, which I have done, it had an effect and got her to compromise and spend more time to test the waters and changes. Seems to be a step in the right direction.
Not sure this is the time to file for divorce, that option is on the table and we have already agreed to make in amicable if it gets to that.
I guess I was looking for something that would work within the current situation of weekend visits (which has been a positive step) that can help her gain the safety she is looking for to help her gain the love and chemical release, other the the final straw free fall?
The advice that Divorce Busters and your MC are giving is clearly good for your wife in the short term. It gives her time and support to work through things to get to a better place.
It is not good for you in the short term, because it leaves you in limbo. You get to twist in the wind waiting for some undetermined day when she finds herself and wants to come back. Of course, that day may never come.
The advice you are getting here to let her go eliminates that limbo phase. It is you moving on without your wife to try and find happiness. Of course, that may also not come. On the other hand, you moving forward may cause your wife to decide to come back to you. Then again, it may not.
So in a nutshell, you can't predict the future.
The question is whether it is worth it to you to endure the short term pain of limbo to wait for her? If so, for how long? What does she need to show you to convince you that she is working to get the two of you back together?
While I know what I would do (cough, end the limbo, cough), you have to answer that question for you.
The advice that Divorce Busters and your MC are giving is clearly good for your wife in the short term. It gives her time and support to work through things to get to a better place.
It is not good for you in the short term, because it leaves you in limbo. You get to twist in the wind waiting for some undetermined day when she finds herself and wants to come back. Of course, that day may never come.
The advice you are getting here to let her go eliminates that limbo phase. It is you moving on without your wife to try and find happiness. Of course, that may also not come. On the other hand, you moving forward may cause your wife to decide to come back to you. Then again, it may not.
So in a nutshell, you can't predict the future.
The question is whether it is worth it to you to endure the short term pain of limbo to wait for her? If so, for how long? What does she need to show you to convince you that she is working to get the two of you back together?
While I know what I would do (cough, end the limbo, cough), you have to answer that question for you.
I heard and read about a study that was done at the Unversity of Chicago with about 5000 married couples, of those 5000, 600 or so were unhappy in their marriage. They interviewed the 600 unhappy couples 5 years later and the findings were: Of those who divorced, only 19% claimed they were happier, and of those who stayed married 80% were happier than before.
If this is true, it seems to me it is worth avoiding divorce and trying to make it work. I also had a conversation with a client this past week who told me she just completed divorce. I told her about my situation and that we were still working on it and her reply was to do all you can to not go through divorce.
20 years with someone who I and most around us thought had a very good marriage, seems to point to her being in a mid-life fog and maybe not thinking clearly. Maybe it will lift.
Like you said no one can predict the future, and my guess is that most of the people who frequent this site had bad experiences and advise from that POV. Those with successful (saved marriage) outcomes mostly would stop coming back here being happy in their situations. I could be wrong. I guess I am still hoping to be a part of the latter group someday. No offense to anyone here!
I heard and read about a study that was done at the Unversity of Chicago with about 5000 married couples, of those 5000, 600 or so were unhappy in their marriage. They interviewed the 600 unhappy couples 5 years later and the findings were: Of those who divorced, only 19% claimed they were happier, and of those who stayed married 80% were happier than before.
If this is true, it seems to me it is worth avoiding divorce and trying to make it work. I also had a conversation with a client this past week who told me she just completed divorce. I told her about my situation and that we were still working on it and her reply was to do all you can to not go through divorce.
20 years with someone who I and most around us thought had a very good marriage, seems to point to her being in a mid-life fog and maybe not thinking clearly. Maybe it will lift.
Like you said no one can predict the future, and my guess is that most of the people who frequent this site had bad experiences and advise from that POV. Those with successful (saved marriage) outcomes mostly would stop coming back here being happy in their situations. I could be wrong. I guess I am still hoping to be a part of the latter group someday. No offense to anyone here!
While I think those statistics are interesting, please think about the variables that are unstated. Examples include why they were unhappy, whether both partners worked to improve things, how long they had been married, and how many of those couple that divorced had one spouse who was happier while the other was not.
That being said, I wish you luck. I certainly don't want to see anyone divorced as a general matter, and 20 years together is something to want to fight for. However, 20 years alone is not a goal to fight for. Rather, fight for what you can have with your wife, and recognize that she needs to be there fighting for what she can have with you. If she is not, make sure that you look out for yourself.
That being said, I wish you luck. I certainly don't want to see anyone divorced as a general matter, and 20 years together is something to want to fight for. However, 20 years alone is not a goal to fight for. Rather, fight for what you can have with your wife, and recognize that she needs to be there fighting for what she can have with you. If she is not, make sure that you look out for yourself.
Thank you. 20 years is worth the fight. It may be a lost cause in the end, but I would rather find her heart again and grow old together like we once planned, or know that I gave it my all trying to save it.
If she can not fight for me, like I have been fighting for her than I know I will need to move on. She is not fighting like I am at this point, but trying with bounderies.
As long as I see progress I will stay in the fight, but if we stand still, then I will need to find a new life.
I agree w/ the harder line taken by MEM11363. She knows that you are always going to be waiting for her no matter what she does. Your actions are not telling her that you are not going to wait forever. Give her a deadline. Until you give her a specific deadline to move back in, sleep with you like you need her to, she is going to dangle you along.
I get it that you want to save the marriage if possible. I would too. But it takes 2 to make the marriage work. If she has grievances about you or your behavior, she needs to air those so that you can address them. If she has none then what is holding her up?
I think you will get good results from being strong on this. I think she WANTS you to be strong and to define your boundaries. Women will test you. She is testing to see whether you are strong enough to pass the test.
I agree w/ the harder line taken by MEM11363. She knows that you are always going to be waiting for her no matter what she does. Your actions are not telling her that you are not going to wait forever. Give her a deadline. Until you give her a specific deadline to move back in, sleep with you like you need her to, she is going to dangle you along.
I get it that you want to save the marriage if possible. I would too. But it takes 2 to make the marriage work. If she has grievances about you or your behavior, she needs to air those so that you can address them. If she has none then what is holding her up?
I think you will get good results from being strong on this. I think she WANTS you to be strong and to define your boundaries. Women will test you. She is testing to see whether you are strong enough to pass the test.
We are working on the issues in MC. I still see her being in a fog and the MC explains it like I have seen it. She retracts to the little girl inside, does not deal with things like a woman and runs. This coupled with the MLC have made her put all the blame on me.
I have shown I can be strong and willing to move on, but want to give her the chance to figure it out.
Sorry for hijacking this thread on Athols book, which I recommend! I guess my main purpose for coming to this thread was to see what might be recommended from the book for a guy in my situation and only seeing her on the weekends, working towards the sex part again. Who knows maybe this weekend?
This,
A couple observations. This whole "go straight" to the brink thing is something I subscribe to "only because"
It has worked consistently for me in my one marriage. I truly have little idea how "normal" my wife's response pattern is.
I cannot imagine us not being together. She really is the best thing that ever happened to me. That said if she didn't want to be with me, I would not inflict my company on her. This is a voluntary arrangement. My advice to you is not about your pride. Based on my experience it maximizes the chance of recon.
For some reason my w seems to associate some level of fear with love. I don't claim to understand it but I accept it.
UOTE=This is me;598674]We are working on the issues in MC. I still see her being in a fog and the MC explains it like I have seen it. She retracts to the little girl inside, does not deal with things like a woman and runs. This coupled with the MLC have made her put all the blame on me.
I have shown I can be strong and willing to move on, but want to give her the chance to figure it out.
Sorry for hijacking this thread on Athols book, which I recommend! I guess my main purpose for coming to this thread was to see what might be recommended from the book for a guy in my situation and only seeing her on the weekends, working towards the sex part again. Who knows maybe this weekend?[/QUOTE] Posted via Mobile Device
Sorry for hijacking this thread on Athols book, which I recommend! I guess my main purpose for coming to this thread was to see what might be recommended
No worries. Conversation is like that. You never know where it is going to flow. Sometimes the best stuff on here does not follow a straight line.
Your situation is custom made for the book's advice. I believe you are at the point where he would advise being pretty firm about what you want and need. Your W has had a lot of time to think it over already.
BTW, Athol encourages folks to email him w/ specifics. Maybe he could help
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Re: Married Man Sex Life Primer 
