Maybe the solution for men who are unhappy with the quality of sex would be to look at the quality of what they bring to the table. Maybe also learn about real sex from reputable sources and not porn videos.
I would not be happy with a man who regarded me as a source of sexual entertainment. My intrinsic worth does not hinge on how thrilling i can make sex for my husband.
We are in concert with making our sexual relationship as satisfying fir each other as possible. The gymnastic sex is fun every now and then when we are both in the mood. I don't feel obliged to put on a show but I feel motivated.
Perhaps concentration on the basics of loving, mutually satisfying sex. Get to learn your partner and what Tues her on.
Leave off expectations and work on inspiration. If the sex is boring, consider what you are doing before pointing the finger.
. Accept her uniqueness and don't impose artificial expectations. For all the talk about sexual connection with love for men it may not feel that way when sex is mechanical when they are being molded to fit an impossible fantasy.
When women start expecting men to perform like porn actors this may hit home. What if the expectation was for a chiseled physique, the face of a Adonis, a large penis and ability to give them orgasms in with a few mins of trusting, how would men feel.
Women are becoming more like men and may catch up with men on expectations of porn sex. Only it will be men how will have to fit unrealistic standards of performance.
Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine602
Maybe the solution for men who are unhappy with the quality of sex would be to look at the quality of what they bring to the table. Maybe also learn about real sex from reputable sources and not porn videos.
I would not be happy with a man who regarded me as a source of sexual entertainment. My intrinsic worth does not hinge on how thrilling i can make sex for my husband.
We are in concert with making our sexual relationship as satisfying fir each other as possible. The gymnastic sex is fun every now and then when we are both in the mood. I don't feel obliged to put on a show but I feel motivated.
Perhaps concentration on the basics of loving, mutually satisfying sex. Get to learn your partner and what Tues her on.
Leave off expectations and work on inspiration. If the sex is boring, consider what you are doing before pointing the finger.
. Accept her uniqueness and don't impose artificial expectations. For all the talk about sexual connection with love for men it may not feel that way when sex is mechanical when they are being molded to fit an impossible fantasy.
When women start expecting men to perform like porn actors this may hit home. What if the expectation was for a chiseled physique, the face of a Adonis, a large penis and ability to give them orgasms in with a few mins of trusting, how would men feel.
Women are becoming more like men and may catch up with men on expectations of porn sex. Only it will be men how will have to fit unrealistic standards of performance.
Wow! I think you completely misunderstand what many of the men on this and other threads are saying. I don't think any man is saying he wants porn sex (although the tear me apart porn style sex would be nice every once in a while ). What we are saying is we want meaningful connected sex where both parties are active willing participants and both parties feel loved and desired. The advice is frequently figure the woman out and change yourself to give her what she wants and things will work out. And we are simply saying that just as a man needs to understand and adapt to his woman's unique sexuality and needs, so should a woman understand and adapt to her man's unique sexuality and needs.
Based on some of the posts I've seen of SimplyAmorous, she gets it! In fact, she should give seminars!
Also, why are a man's expectations necessarily "Artificial"? This is precisely the attitude and prejudgement that many men recoil from and why I think some women are closed to really listening to the concerns of their men on this issue. Not helpful.
Finally, I don't see where any man on this thread said hat a woman's body/conditions/physical appearance was a factor in the sexual intimacy
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Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage
Catherine, once again you jump into a thread with both feet, completely defensive, and it becomes obvious you have not understood what you are responding to ... and I have no idea where things like "porn" are coming from to get interjected into this.
I'll respond a little bit more when I have time, but really, IMO, you need to take a deep breath, re-read, understand, put your emotions in neutral, bring down your defensiveness, and do a little introspection before jumping into threads like this. I don't know where this comes from with you. Maybe you can enlighten us a bit.
Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Wolf
Wow! I think you completely misunderstand what many of the men on this and other threads are saying. I don't think any man is saying he wants porn sex (although it would be nice every once in a while ). What we are saying is we want meaningful connected sex where both parties are active willing participants and both parties feel loved and desired. And we are saying that just as a man needs to understand and adapt to his woman's unique sexuality and needs, so should a woman understand and adapt to her man's unique sexuality and needs.
Based on some of the posts I've seen of SimplyAmorous, she gets it! In fact, she should give seminars!
Also, why are a man's expectations necessarily "Artificial"? This is precicely the attitude and prejudgement that many men recoil from and why I think some women are closed to really listening to the concerns of their men on this issue. Not helpful.
I think in some ways you are mostly preaching to the choir, Mr. Wolf.
Totally agree with you on what I bolded above. If only we could get some of the wives who are the other half of the men who post here about their sexless marriage to post their side of things, then maybe some headway could be made - but not if they get preached at. Because when we do get the occasional wife who doesn't want to have sex with her husband coming here, she often gets jumped on like a piece of raw meat in a pond of piranhas, and we often don't ever see them again.
There's usually a myriad of things that are going on in the relationship, though, that often need to be addressed and that aren't able to be seen in an anonymous online forum - sexlessness is often just a symptom of an ailing relationship paradigm.
To me the thing that seems to be a defining factor is the willingness of each partner to work toward a better relationship. If one won't participate, then the other has no other recourse but to keep up their own side of the street as best they can and decide whether it's time to move.
Why do you assume I am closed to a mutually enjoyable sexual experience?
I would no doubt recoil from men who expect me say what they like to hear when this topic comes up. So we would be even.
If you read carefully the post by men who are connecting sexually with their wives but are still unhappy it is about their sexual expectations.
What do they want? A she devil, shows of enthusiasm, initiating and different positions. Why? Because it brings them pleasure. Why cant they get their wives to perform?
There is the crux. If I say you can't make her be someone she is not then I am wrong. If I ask about the basic quality of sex for her I am asking him to jump through hoops.
If I suggests he step back expectations and work on the basics then I am favoring his wife. If I say love the person she is I don't understand the male sexual need for variety.
If I were talking to my son and daughter (if they were old enough) I would tell them both the same thing.
Come into a relationship with a mind to getting to know the person you are with. Allow them to be who they are from the begining. Don't impose a list of expectations.
State your preferences and needs and be willing to adjust to a mutually satisfactory relationship. If you are not comparable you will know.
I would tell my daughter to stay away from men who have a list of expectations as in - I won't date women who don't do some sex acts.
They are poor risk for a LT happy relationships. I would tell my son not to reveal what his desires are for acts up front. It is easy to be manipulated.
Rather explore with the person and see if you are compatible. Don't audition women, all you will get are good actresses who do things just to please you.
That may sound like paradise but the largess disappears eventually.
My sexual likes and dislikes are shaped by my personality, background and most importantly the man I married.
I was very inhibited and my husband coaxed me out of my shell. We spoke about this recently. After reading some of the horror stories on this site I asked him about his patience and acceptance.
He said he understood why and and he had confident that I would come out of it with his help. He did not mind taking leadership.
Catherine, once again you jump into a thread with both feet, completely defensive, and it becomes obvious you have not understood what you are responding to ... and I have no idea where things like "porn" are coming from to get interjected into this.
I'll respond a little bit more when I have time, but really, IMO, you need to take a deep breath, re-read, understand, put your emotions in neutral, bring down your defensiveness, and do a little introspection before jumping into threads like this. I don't know where this comes from with you. Maybe you can enlighten us a bit.
Once again?? You're beginning to sound like the all knowing, all seeing expert on all things pertaining to women, men and relationships.
Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage
Quote:
Catherine602 said :If you read carefully the post by men who are connecting sexually with their wives but are still unhappy it is about their sexual expectations
This wasn't true in my marraige -AT ALL....therefore it is not true in every case. It is also not true in the case of friends of ours. (Unlike many people here on this forum, I accually do talk about this intimate stuff with friends).... Her husband is a wonderful christian man, he just wants more sex, he puts up with her laying there like a corpse, she has no interest at all, she has told me ....even allowed him to cry in front of her, I felt the heat rising in me, I wanted to tear her apart ... After I allowed my own wonderful man to suffer ... I have zero compassion on such women. ZERO. She ought to let him go, she ought to feel compassion, something. She is nothing but selfish, the marriage is not balanced at all.
Her husband is a good man....a damn good one, much more worthy than she is... she brags about their marraige on FB, but I know the real story ...she probably does love him, called me crying when he was sick, found out he has RA, but does she care about his needs....Hell no! If I was him, I'd leave her. I see the sadness in his eyes- when we visit he is half the man he could be. I blame her. He does everything for her. She sucks it up. He is against porn, there is ZERO expectations other than he wants his wife to want him. Period. That = love to a man.
Pathetic. I hate to see Good men put down. Nothing about any of this is black & white. I see nothing wrong with wanting some variety either. Our sex life was pretty boring by most standards for 19 long years, but I was satisfied.... so was he, he just wanted MORE of it.... When my drive got higher, I was dying for variety... it comes with the hormones , it is a sign of HIGH TEST (another thing women won't get -unless they experience it ).... we need to go along with the other, open our minds a bit, so long as we are monogomous .... we need to bear with the other, do some kinky things....if that is what our man wants.
Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous
Her husband is a good man....a damn good one, much more worthy than she is... she brags about their marraige on FB, but I know the real story ...she probably does love him, called me crying when he was sick, found out he has RA, but does she care about his needs....Hell no! If I was him, I'd leave her. I see the sadness in his eyes- when we visit he is half the man he could be. I blame her. He does everything for her. She sucks it up. He is against porn, there is ZERO expectations other than he wants his wife to want him. Period. That = love to a man.
Hi SA ~
You've written about this poor guy before. Maybe someone needs to slip him a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy", and I'm totally serious.
It could be that he's totally killed his wife's desire for him by being ... TOO nice, too accommodating, puts her on a pedestal too much ... especially if he's always doing everything for her and tolerates her nastiness.
Y'all have a great spit-fire personality that I think helps to keep your homefires burning bright (and I totally admire that in you, btw). If this gal doesn't have that inside of her, then she likely needs help from her husband to get her engines going (that is the way I am), and if he's more of a *****cat than a tiger, well...
Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage
Yah, actually, I agree with RLD.
Seems to me that Catherine is actually saying the same thing that Mr. Wolf is, just from the other side of the fence.. or bed.
Both are saying that you need to try and understand and embrace the uniqueness of your spouse - try and attend to what their needs are, and not just selfishly your own.
I always find it interesting when Catherine posts - she ruffles a lot of the men's feathers, and yet I've never had a problem with her posts and most frequently nod my head and say to myself - yep, I feel the same way - I just can't articulate it. Maybe a man who is having sexual issues with his wife should look at what she writes, take a step back, and think - "holy smokes - maybe THAT'S what my wife is *really* thinking like!" Might give you a different perspective.
Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage
Quote:
Originally Posted by shy_guy
Catherine, once again you jump into a thread with both feet, completely defensive, and it becomes obvious you have not understood what you are responding to ... and I have no idea where things like "porn" are coming from to get interjected into this.
I'll respond a little bit more when I have time, but really, IMO, you need to take a deep breath, re-read, understand, put your emotions in neutral, bring down your defensiveness, and do a little introspection before jumping into threads like this. I don't know where this comes from with you. Maybe you can enlighten us a bit.
Porn gets interjected because it is a common discussion point on this site, and many of us therefore understand what Catherine is referring to. Its not meant as a criticism, but men sometimes get their only real education about sex from porn or media, and I think this is what she is referring to. If such a guy doesn't really take the time to learn and understand his wife's needs, his idea of intimacy could inevitably lead to a pretty unfulfilling sex life if he intends to be married more than a few years. My father was pretty uncouth at times, but I have to give him credit for talking often about the difference between the kind of sex that focuses on the intensity of the moment, and the type that sustains a deep and lasting bond.
Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halien
Porn gets interjected because it is a common discussion point on this site, and many of us therefore understand what Catherine is referring to. Its not meant as a criticism, but men sometimes get their only real education about sex from porn or media, and I think this is what she is referring to. If such a guy doesn't really take the time to learn and understand his wife's needs, his idea of intimacy could inevitably lead to a pretty unfulfilling sex life if he intends to be married more than a few years. My father was pretty uncouth at times, but I have to give him credit for talking often about the difference between the kind of sex that focuses on the intensity of the moment, and the type that sustains a deep and lasting bond.
You get men who learn all they know about sex from porn, and women who learn all they know about sex from being told "nice girls don't", and people wonder why so many couples have p!ss poor sex lives.
If reproduction wasn't so detached from sexual satisfaction, we'd have been extinct about a million years ago.
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Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enchantment
You've written about this poor guy before. Maybe someone needs to slip him a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy", and I'm totally serious.
It could be that he's totally killed his wife's desire for him by being ... TOO nice, too accommodating, puts her on a pedestal too much ... especially if he's always doing everything for her.
Y'all have a great spit-fire personality that I think helps to keep your homefires burning bright (and I totally admire that in you, btw). If this gal doesn't have that inside of her, then she likely needs help from her husband to get her engines going (that is the way I am), and if he's more of a *****cat than a tiger, well...
Yes, I do mention them alot on here, because I know how the nice guy gets shafted, he is not expecting no porn sex .....and it does anger me...he is like my husband, he is simply NOT the aggressive type. He does need that book.... but I know him, he would not leave.... Too many Christian beliefs, he reads his bible every day, he has learned to live with it. BUt is he happy ...No...if I had an opportunity to talk to him.... I bet he is filled with silent resentment towards her.
No, not alot of fire & spice from her. She is a downer really. I hardly talk to her anymore, I don't bother, she contacts me on FB now & then. I guess he has made a good friends with some mennonite woman, she tells me about that.... I am thinking to myself... hmmmm, I wonder if he will fall into cheating with her. The marrried nice guy & the Mennonite ....how unlikely it would be . We are all human after all, wouldn't surprise me given what he has to go home to every day.
Whose fault is it? Why is men to blame for being "too good" to their wives. Kinda what this thread was all about , isn't it ...that it is always the man's fault.
I could see if he was out boozing, flirting in the bars, can't hold a job.... but a good father, helps her cook, and all he wants is 2 x a week loving. Too much to ask. He is lucky if he gets it twice a month.
I just can't fathom staying in a marraige like this. Life is too short.
Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage
The premise of any healthy marriage is mutuality.
Many of the guys on here who are trying to fix their marriages have lost site of that and allowed the marital repair to become:
His responsibility: Chase her definition of what he is supposed to be, even as she changes that definition whenever she feels like it.
Her responsibility: Evaluate him against her standards and tell him where he is failing.
That NEVER works. EVER. It puts the responsibility for the outcome entirely on his efforts and her evaluation.
Guess - what - in most of those situations, if he applied the same "standards" for effort, consideration, kindness, etc. to her behavior, the outcome would drastically change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Wolf
I’ve been reading in this forum and the thread on Does Your Wife Initiate Sex really got me to thinking so I decided to add my perspective. I see so many posts from men and women that have an “it’s the man’s fault tone” and “if he would just change then everything would be okay perspective”. For the record, I am divorced as a result of my ex wife having multiple affairs for which she blamed me 100%. I was also the blame for how she felt about herself, the state of our marriage, her job dissatisfaction, the global economic crisis and any other global societal ill. I am now about 2 months away from marrying a wonderful emotionally healthy woman.
Let’s face it, we all do wrong in relationships at time. People conveniently forget that for every disgruntled woman/man out there with a list of grievances for their partner’s failures, there is a man/woman who has been in a relationship with them who has a list of grievances JUST AS LONG. If you have a mate that accepts and tolerates and loves you through your issues, count yourself blessed.
Don’t punish the man because he doesn’t meet some nebulous unstated expectation that in all likelihood his wife/GF doesn’t understand herself. Her withdrawal sexually is the punishment cloaked in so many other crappy excuses (I need romance and excitement, I need him to be more dominant, I need him to do more chores around the house, I need him to constantly tell me I’m pretty so I’ll feel good about myself, I need him to listen to me and talk to me, blah, blah, blah). These are legitimate needs but they shouldn’t be used as excuses to punish your man and withdraw from him. People (men and women) need to be adults and deal with the issues in a healthy and productive way. This is not a communication style Mars/Venus issue – it is a being an adult issue. No one should want a tit for tat relationship: If you make me pay (which you have by withdrawing sexually) for everything I've done wrong, then you've stated definitively that the way relationships should work is that people make others pay for their failures. No double standards.
The sexual health of a relationship is the primary responsibility of both the man and the woman. A big part of what bothers a lot of men (sorry for generalizing) over time is the sense that their wife/GF is getting one over on them and that she has access to all of this secret information that he can never have. For relationship advice, I frequently see the implication that if the marriage/relationship has problems – especially sexual problems – then it’s the man’s fault and only he can fix it. He needs to step up and be a MAN! Be more Dominant. Initiate more, be more aggressive, make more money etc. Or he's supposed to become Mr. Emotional Transparency and a surrogate female BFF so she never feels unfulfilled again and gets the Best. Marriage/Relationship. Ever., and thus feel sexually attracted to him because she now feels happy, healthy, whole and amorous with *that* kind of marriage/relationship. In essence this comes down to “look at how much happier we are now that you do everything I want because you are afraid that I will withdraw sexually and now I’m willing to have sex with you and maybe initiate it”!!
This is one of the major issues I have with most relationship rescue philosophies. They imply that the man must clean up all of his crap, every mean thing he ever said, every insensitive thing he ever did and convert himself into the perfect Robo man in a way that precisely fits his wife's taste...and her job is… well… nothing. And then she might feel like being sexually intimate with him and MIGHT even initiate it once in a while. Just like women find it sexually attractive for a man to initiate sex and be the aggressor, many men find it just as attractive when a woman shows definitive interest, initiates it and is the aggressor – this is why so many men get caught up in affairs as their affair partners are usually way more aggressive about sex than their mates (I am in no way justifying or condoning affairs by anyone). Men don’t’ want to have sex with women who act like shy little school girls - that's gross actually. And by initiating it I don’t mean just wearing something different or nothing at all so that he gets the hint. I mean truly taking the initiative frequently to show your man that you have that animalistic, lustful, carnal desire for him and you plan to tear him apart. That also means being very active during your lovemaking – let him know you like what he’s doing, initiate position changes… Let yourselves go physically and emotionally during sex – trust me he WILL NOT JUDGE you.
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). What we are saying is we want meaningful connected sex where both parties are active willing participants and both parties feel loved and desired. The advice is frequently figure the woman out and change yourself to give her what she wants and things will work out. And we are simply saying that just as a man needs to understand and adapt to his woman's unique sexuality and needs, so should a woman understand and adapt to her man's unique sexuality and needs. 
