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The Men's Clubhouse Talk about life's dilemmas.

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Old 03-04-2012, 11:38 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous View Post
This is where my husband failed, his matches were half wet, I never had any resentment, no medical issues, I wasn't tired, he was an overly sensitive Nice Guy & didn't pursue. Though when trying to conceive, I was a basketcase & not pleasant to deal with ....I can't argue that at all. I was more to blame then for sure.
This is not directed at you specifically but just a general response.


While I agree that it feels awkward to have to encourage a husband to take the lead more often (i.e. be more dominant) it is really not that difficult. It starts outside the bedroom.

When you go out to dinner act a little demur. Let him pick the place. Let him even order for you. "I'm not sure what to order here. I'm having trouble deciding. Can you please order for me?"

Whether you can open the damn jar or not ask him for help and then tell him how much you appreciate having a strong man around.

Basically find ways outside the bedroom to build him up as a take charge kind of guy. Then in the bedroom vocalize. "Oh God I love it when you do that!" "You hit all the right spots." "You're such a great lover."

After sex YOU cuddle in to HIM. "You were wonderful tonight."

Eventually you can begin to subtly slip in suggestions. "Oh baby, just a little to the right." "Oh right there, that's the spot, harder, harder." Whatever.

Soon he will know what you like and will have confidence to take charge in the bedroom. Of course this all depends on whether the woman actually cares enough to try.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:44 AM   #92 (permalink)
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I also think it has a heck of a lot to do with character. If my wife had consistently initiated with me I wouldnít have liked it as I like to be the initiator.
My husband does like that (thank god) or our chemistry would be shot! If only I had been in tune with my sexual being back in the day....but we are told women are bad girls to act like that ....it gets beat into our skulls from an early age.

And you know what is really funny, if I was asked about my fantasies .....they might involve taking down some young innocent shy boy ...to give him the thrill of his life...showing him a good time, so truly.... I have an aggressive spirit about me.... just wasn't in touch with it back in the day.... he is more the Receptive Lover, we've done the tests. Shouldn't have taken us this long to figure it all out though.

He lights up too, but it would be rising a shot faster in his younger years.

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If a woman cannot or will not do the work necessary to find out what lights her fuse and communicate it to their husbands then they are doomed to a pitiful marriage because their husbands are going to feel rejected and resentful. Why choose to have a marriage like that?
When a couple is repressed, they do not realize how vital these things are, we were like that... both of us were too embarrased to bring up masterbation, too taboo. It is hard to describe , when he touched me, if it hurt, I hesitated to tell him , I might move instead, didn't want to hurt his feelings..... so retarded ...believe me...I KNOW !!!!! Live & freaking learn. I masterbated our whole marriage, he never did - we never talked about any of this....until 3 yrs ago.

We have to be one of the dumbest married couple who graced the planet in this area- considering how open we were in every other aspect of our marraige.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:56 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Mr. B,
I agree and disagree.
Oh my gosh I do not agree that a woman should watch porn to get horny so she can have sex with her husband. She wants and needs her husband to turn her on. Gives the impression of...
"I'll just lay here naked. You go look at another naked man on dvd and when you are horny, come climb on top of me and do me. It's your job". Meaning... " I don't care what you need to turn you on. Just do it".

I do really agree that aggression and pursuing might work better.
Why? Because it takes confidence. That's what is sexy. I cannot tell you how UNattractive it is to have a man stand in front of you and say "wanna have sex". Or have him touch your hips and say "wanna". It's a huge shutdown.
I'm not talking about buying flowers and doing dishes. Not at all.

I'm talking about flirting all day. Kissing her on the neck. If she pushes you away, try another spot. Hugging her from behind while she is doing the dishes. All those things you did when you were dating a girl and trying to get her into bed. You didn't stand 2 feet away and say "I'm horny". You got close, you touched, you kissed, she got turned on, and off you went.

Yes, you might get rejected. But try again tomorrow. Ask her when you are kissing her neck if it turns her on. It's all about confidence.

And here's an important part. Don't do this stuff when kids are hungry, timing is bad, etc.

It's no different than a woman in her 40's trying to find a new way to get her older husband interested in sex. And it's HER job to do it! To find new ways to arouse him.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:18 PM   #94 (permalink)
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When you go out to dinner act a little demur. Let him pick the place. Let him even order for you. "I'm not sure what to order here. I'm having trouble deciding. Can you please order for me?"
He would likely laugh at this. He'd probably ask me if I was alright.

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Basically find ways outside the bedroom to build him up as a take charge kind of guy. Then in the bedroom vocalize. "Oh God I love it when you do that!" "You hit all the right spots." "You're such a great lover."
I do build him up...all the time, inside the bedroom- oh yeah ..that is the most enjoyable.... outside the bedroom, our kids see it... in front of friends, on this forum, I uplift him around family, speak about what a wonderful father he is, superb handman- he crafts his own tools, he can fix near anything, he AMAZES me ....... I near "get off" on singing his praises ...and of course he loves this, eats it up....this makes him feel overwhelmingly loved.

Yes, I spoil him! He would agree.

I doubt there is a man here who gets the praise I spew from my mouth to my husband... I am ever so thankful for him.


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After sex YOU cuddle in to HIM. "You were wonderful tonight."
I say ALOT more than that ,and it is alot hotter too! He is not missing my exhileration by any means.

Quote:

Eventually you can begin to subtly slip in suggestions. "Oh baby, just a little to the right." "Oh right there, that's the spot, harder, harder." Whatever.
I tell him to "plow me", I am not shy any more.

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Soon he will know what you like and will have confidence to take charge in the bedroom. Of course this all depends on whether the woman actually cares enough to try.
I am not complaining about him NOW... he could be more aggressive but he is not going to change who he is. Why is it so hard for others to believe we are all different... he is never going to fit the mold of an Alpha AFEH, and I am never going to fit the mold of what his wife was....being totally receptive 100% of the time.

My husband is turned on by aggressive women, I did a thread on it ! Want to hear from Men who PREFER dominant women IN BED...

So I ask... why should I downplay who I am ? This floats his boat !
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:21 PM   #95 (permalink)
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It is hard to describe , when he touched me, if it hurt, I hesitated to tell him , I might move instead, didn't want to hurt his feelings..... so retarded ...believe me...I KNOW !!!!!
SA, thanks for sharing this point. The fact is I think this happens all to often in marriages. Something we the men do is actually unpleasant or hurts and rather than discussing it afterwards in a loving way, she will simply move, recoil or shut down. Not that we can pick up on most body language but we WILL pick up on this and take it as rejection. Thus the cycle begins.

Also, I understand that women want their men to turn them on. Is that to say that women don't get in the mood when they are by themselves (i.e. not dating/sexual with anyone)? Do you only feel turned on/horny when you have a man wooing you and actively trying? If not, what turns you on without the male external stimulation? Can you recreate that inside your relationship?

I ask because I find it hard to belive that a woman would never get in the mood if she were alone for an extended period? Maybe so... I am a man and am always in the mood so what do I know...
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:47 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Mr. B,
I agree and disagree.
Oh my gosh I do not agree that a woman should watch porn to get horny so she can have sex with her husband. She wants and needs her husband to turn her on. Gives the impression of...
"I'll just lay here naked. You go look at another naked man on dvd and when you are horny, come climb on top of me and do me. It's your job". Meaning... " I don't care what you need to turn you on. Just do it".

I do really agree that aggression and pursuing might work better.
Why? Because it takes confidence. That's what is sexy. I cannot tell you how UNattractive it is to have a man stand in front of you and say "wanna have sex". Or have him touch your hips and say "wanna". It's a huge shutdown.
I'm not talking about buying flowers and doing dishes. Not at all.

I'm talking about flirting all day. Kissing her on the neck. If she pushes you away, try another spot. Hugging her from behind while she is doing the dishes. All those things you did when you were dating a girl and trying to get her into bed. You didn't stand 2 feet away and say "I'm horny". You got close, you touched, you kissed, she got turned on, and off you went.

Yes, you might get rejected. But try again tomorrow. Ask her when you are kissing her neck if it turns her on. It's all about confidence.

And here's an important part. Don't do this stuff when kids are hungry, timing is bad, etc.

It's no different than a woman in her 40's trying to find a new way to get her older husband interested in sex. And it's HER job to do it! To find new ways to arouse him.
Itís a lot to do with erogenous zones.


One of my wifeís was her shoulders. Just caressing/massaging her shoulders got her going under almost any circumstances no matter where we were.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:49 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Unless the husband is suffering from ED or has been rejected so often that he gives up I don't know a man alive that wouldn't be willing to strike the match.

What is the wife's responsibility in getting herself in the mood? Can't she make herself horny? Read an erotic novel. Look at porn. Experiment with sex toys. Whatever it takes.

Many women are so out of touch with their own sexuality that they cannot let the man know how to please them. Most husband's did not attend the Svengali School for Sexual Advancement. Ultimately women are responsible for their own sexual pleasure. And their own orgasms for that matter.

If a woman cannot or will not do the work necessary to find out what lights her fuse and communicate it to their husbands then they are doomed to a pitiful marriage because their husbands are going to feel rejected and resentful. Why choose to have a marriage like that?
What you're missing is that there are a group of women who don't want their husbands to strike the match - the match has to strike by itself, spontaneously, because otherwise it's "manipulative" or "degrading" or something like that.

There are people who don't know what they want, and don't want anyone else to help them find out, and certainly don't want to find out on their own. They think they should find out by osmosis or magic or an act of god or something like that. It certainly shouldn't involve investigation or effort.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:17 PM   #98 (permalink)
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SA, thanks for sharing this point. The fact is I think this happens all to often in marriages. Something we the men do is actually unpleasant or hurts and rather than discussing it afterwards in a loving way, she will simply move, recoil or shut down. Not that we can pick up on most body language but we WILL pick up on this and take it as rejection. Thus the cycle begins.
I never shut down... once we were in the throws of forplay.... I WANTED THAT ORGASM....if he went before me, I would make him do it again. Back then, he could ! Now a days...he can't.

I really feel couples would do well to push themselves through the initial shyness of intimacy... and start speaking to their lovers .....before anything awkward has an opportunity to come up....something like ...."what feels better.... this..or this?" Engage them to express what pleases them....make it interesting....how wonderful to have a lover trying to discover what arouses us....as anything else, it all starts with opening our mouths. (you could take that a couple ways).

Even now, I still ask him & try new things....I WANT his experience to be the most "mind blowing" it can possibly be... he is a quiet man, he is not going to speak up, so me being the more vocal.... I need to pull these things out of him.... (like men likely need to do with women).... I am always aiming to UP my sexual technique... but does he do that? Not really... it is like pulling teeth to get him to ask me a question...but then again.... I shouldn't jump on him...as I pretty much let him know what I want - and he aims to please as well. So he doesn't really have anything to ask me ! He did try something new a few weeks ago....I praised him to the high heavens - I loved it !

For all of us...push through the shyness....try new things, inquire along the way....shake it up..... this only speaks of our insatiable desire to be the Best lover we can be......we all want a partner like that !

Quote:

Also, I understand that women want their men to turn them on. Is that to say that women don't get in the mood when they are by themselves (i.e. not dating/sexual with anyone)? Do you only feel turned on/horny when you have a man wooing you and actively trying? If not, what turns you on without the male external stimulation? Can you recreate that inside your relationship?
If you are asking me these questions ... ha ha ...I am the wrong woman, I am high drive & just thinking about it....I want to be enraptured in it. When I was excessively high drive, the flirting & seduction just flowed out of me, this has past, but much has remained... now we just want to arouse it every night.

In our past, another story.... I had too many worries on my mind, I was embarrassed for my own husband to see me naked, I wanted the lights out , under the covers. I had issues !

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I ask because I find it hard to belive that a woman would never get in the mood if she were alone for an extended period? Maybe so... I am a man and am always in the mood so what do I know...
I would say this answer solely depends on a woman's sex drive (how much TEST she has )....Even for me (in my repressed days)....I had a VERY HEALTHY SEX DRIVE (even though I was ashamed of it before we married) Been masterbating since I was 12 ish -you think I would tell a soul that, It would be the 1 thing in my life I would have outright lied about & turned as red as a lobster if anyone asked me . Noone ever did.

As for me....if I didn't get it after so many days (a week my limit)...I would chase my husband down ....I had to have it !! It was like it would "build" within me, I was RIPE for the most pleasurable sensation on this side of living. Nothing can compare after you have waited so many days.

Also ...in the middle of the night, I would get horny too. And Pregnancy, Oh my, no wonder he didn't care how many kids we had ! If I seen a hot R rated skin on skin romance scene -he got sex that night ... WHen reading a romance, when I got to the pages of the man lustfully taking the woman....the juices would be flowing within seconds. Crazy. It really didn't take too much to get me going, even then.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:38 PM   #99 (permalink)
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I really wanted my wife to post here using her own account but she said I should say this for her.

In marriage you are often tired, kids drive you crazy, work is a hassle, the car broke, gas prices are up, her mother is a b!tch, etc etc etc

She says there are many times when she doesn't start out feeling that she wants sex. But she knows how important it is to me and she knows that I satisfy her needs all the time. So she never says no to sex unless she is legitimately sick. She says that most of the time after we get started she GETS in the mood and always enjoys it. So she wanted me to post and say that these women who are looking for their fuse to always be lit need to either light it themselves or at least allow the man to strike the match and see if it catches.
This is exactly it.

LD does not mean no sexual desire. It means no spontaneous or conscious desire. It is there but needs to be uncovered. I think your wife is wise. I try to figure out why LD wives will not work with husbands to help them to uncover desire. I think it is lack of understanding by women and men about the nature of female sexuality. When life gets busy, sex gets pushed further back in the mind of many women.

I am suprised at how much more responsibility I have for keeping up mentally with family things beyond chores and childcare. Who keeps up with birthdays, anneeversarries, gift, drs appointments, meds, how long it has been since we visited auntie and on and on. Not my husband, me. This is true for many women, we have responsibilities that are mentally taxing that men don't seem to worry about. Add to that any disparity in in chores and you have an overworked and worried spouse.

I think the worry and planning and not wanting to forget anything is what is most taxing and all other things seem to fade into the background. That may be why some woman stop thinking about sex. It is not the chores it the burden of responsibility for the small and seemingly mundane things that keep a family healthy and maintaining the important social connections vital to the family unit.

The repugnant (to me)" just do it" advice is both right and wrong. It seems to mean that a woman should allow herself to be penetrated by her husband with no regard for the fact that he is using her parts. That sounds awful. I think what the message really is "just allow the man you love and who loves you to help to relax and get in touch with your desire" then you will want to do it.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:44 PM   #100 (permalink)
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This is exactly it.

I think what the message really is "just allow the man you love and who loves you to help to relax and get in touch with your desire" then you will want to do it.
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Now THIS really is exactly it. You need to bottle this.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:57 PM   #101 (permalink)
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What you're missing is that there are a group of women who don't want their husbands to strike the match - the match has to strike by itself, spontaneously, because otherwise it's "manipulative" or "degrading" or something like that.

There are people who don't know what they want, and don't want anyone else to help them find out, and certainly don't want to find out on their own. They think they should find out by osmosis or magic or an act of god or something like that. It certainly shouldn't involve investigation or effort.
No that is plain ignorance and stupidity. Another example of the dysfunctional dynamics in relationships between men and woman in this period of social change. Of course woman should not have to do what they don't want to do. But with the busyness of life and the perpensity for woman more than men to push sex to tge back burner, the human race will be extinct in 200 yrs if you wait for spontaneous desire from busy women.

I think informed women are realizing that the culprit is the inability to turn off worry. Men are a wonderful source of help relax, forget the cares of the day and find time to bond. It does take knowledge. For men to realize understand what is going on and to be persistent and confident. If the attitude is that spontaneous desire is a prerequisite, the pitfalls of such an approach should be explored.

I think men should take the leadership role in working with his wife to get her relaxed and aroused. The first agreement should be that, for most women, spontaneous desire is not frequent but desire can be coaxed. The second agreement should be to allow the normal process of coaxing to happen. It just a part of normal relationship dynamics in a busy life that differentially effects men and women.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:59 PM   #102 (permalink)
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YES

I would say my W told me this almost verbatim during year one of our marriage. I accepted it as true and never looked back since it seemed to accurately describe her behavior.

That said I am realizing more and more that a line I picked up from an Elmore Leonard book almost 20 years ago really, really is true.

There is no bright line separating what happens in bed and out of bed.

In the book the "main" characters are this couple who really love each other. He is about to leave to do something dangerous and she says "I'm sorry we didn't have time to make love this morning" and he casually looks over at her and replies "baby, I'm always making love to you".

That's a great line. And when I am feeling that way, I use it because it's true.



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This is exactly it.

LD does not mean no sexual desire. It means no spontaneous or conscious desire. It is there but needs to be uncovered. I think your wife is wise. I try to figure out why LD wives will not work with husbands to help them to uncover desire. I think it is lack of understanding by women and men about the nature of female sexuality. When life gets busy, sex gets pushed further back in the mind of many women.

I am suprised at how much more responsibility I have for keeping up mentally with family things beyond chores and childcare. Who keeps up with birthdays, anneeversarries, gift, drs appointments, meds, how long it has been since we visited auntie and on and on. Not my husband, me. This is true for many women, we have responsibilities that are mentally taxing that men don't seem to worry about. Add to that any disparity in in chores and you have an overworked and worried spouse.

I think the worry and planning and not wanting to forget anything is what is most taxing and all other things seem to fade into the background. That may be why some woman stop thinking about sex. It is not the chores it the burden of responsibility for the small and seemingly mundane things that keep a family healthy and maintaining the important social connections vital to the family unit.

The repugnant (to me)" just do it" advice is both right and wrong. It seems to mean that a woman should allow herself to be penetrated by her husband with no regard for the fact that he is using her parts. That sounds awful. I think what the message really is "just allow the man you love and who loves you to help to relax and get in touch with your desire" then you will want to do it.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:09 PM   #103 (permalink)
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I also feel people should NEVER jump right into sex, but take the time to get to know one another...Please take a moment & read my thoughts on #1 and #6 here (my thoughts on the sexual )... THIS is what I will be teaching all of my children in dating...what is feel is vital to get a handle on , avoiding disaster & misery after the vows...

I would be curious of your thoughts Catherine, if you disagree with any of it, please do post on my thread... (I love a little debate too!)

This is my masterpeice thread really ... Ultimate links Thread...COMPATIBILITY B4 the vows & beyond = Marital Harmony & Joy

It would be more foolish if a Man KNEW he wanted this in his marriage...and married a woman who never would...it would cause massive resentment in the man ...or he would start fighting/judging her for not being like other women, feeling he is missing out. Again it would = suffering in the man, and he would bring suffering to the woman who wanted no part of it....enter the grand canyon gulf, the beginning of many problems.

That gift lie dormant in my marriage for 19 long yrs...when I finally came into being the loving wife I should have been.... I can not tell you how THIS uplifted my husband's spirits.... that I wanted him in every way, that I craved him, I wanted to "make love" to him with my mouth. There was an older thread in the sex section... about men who put BJ's high on the pedestal of importance.... women feel it is rediculous (it was very obvious by their posts, jumping all over the men for being shallow)... they take great offense to this...

Well.... I asked my own husband how he felt that night ....surprise surprise...it was HIGH on his list as well, he is no different than any other man..... was in his top 3 even. It is a huge deal to a man.

It is near indescribable what this does for them, that we, their wives, want to tear their clothes off and devour them, it is very passionate, nothing is more intimate . To have your wife NOT wanting to be there...a man "feels" this......it destroys it all....reduces it to ashes.

Why do women downplay this. I don't get it. We want them to listen to us... why are we not listening to them... their hearts on this- a man loves pleasure -that is just LIFE.... all women see is a dirty old man, a man who wants porn sex. I don't see that at all. At least not with my husband.

Even though I can't even get off when he gives me "oral"...(simply forplay for us)... if my husband didn't desire me in this way, I would be very very sad, I would even feel like something was wrong with me.... I NEED that from my husband... Men feel the same. It is a "gift" of love, a gift of pleasure.



This could easily describe a church full of repressed women.... great hearts, delicious cooks, Fantastic Mothers even, a love of community, but in the bedroom.... this by no means = a woman who passionately desires to please with enthusiam, and be open to sexual variety & newness.

If she has little interest in educating herself about how to Tickle his pickle (book) ...to be that Better lover...feeling..."why is that important?".... some willingness to get inside the psyche of her man, recognizing if she has hang ups... she is going to overcome if it kills her... with a healthy attitude....I'd say a man would be taking a RISK , no guarentees she will ever enjoy going down on him.

I so agree with you on all that you bring to this forum on this issue, you pound it time & time again. It is ROOT of the problem. It is also an attitude.
SA you are awesome simply put. So thought provoking. I did not think of some of the things you mentioned. The church lady thing scares the hell out of me. It would kill me if my som married the wrong woman! Same for my daughter with the wrong man. I don't think I could stand it.

But anywhooo I will read and post the link you included. I have to think about this so that if my husband and I can have any influence we can at lest try.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:42 PM   #104 (permalink)
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I agree with SA, I don't think it is necessarily foolish.

The other issues you mentioned are important but I value persistent behaviour patterns far more than what people say about themselves. I would not marry a woman who did not like to give BJs and I don't obsess over them like some men do.

Why? It is simply a matter of probability. People change so there are no guarantees not matter what your selection criterion are, but it seems that for a whole list of reasons, the long term sexual health of the marriage and thus the strength of the marriage as a whole is likely to be far stronger with a woman who likes to give BJs than with a woman who found it gross, or even worse, demeaning.
I didn't mean foolish to want a partner who likes to give. But to base ones choice of a mate based on what they are willing to do in the dating stage. Men and women stop doing many things after marriage. We hear the bj thing all the time but there are many things that stop after the wedding. These changes add to the dynamic and affects the mental state of both partners.

I wonder how many men inadvertantly make thier wives feel marginalized in their lives after they marry. A woman goes from be a sought after prize to - competing with a TV, print or the interenet for his attention. Or how many will talk on the mobile while having dinner out, spending time at a bar with buddies during the week and watching and playing sports all weekend.

I am sure this has happened to some degree in all marriages. You settle into a comfortable routine and your partner is always there so no need to worry. Both men and woman do it. You have to make a constant effort to remember that this person who it there all of the time is not a given. He or she is very important and should be treated that way.

To take the women point of view again - if her husband slowly falls into a slovenly domestic partner, TV sports fanatic,and weekend hobbyist, he has to expect some changes in his wife's attitude towards him. And it goes the other way as well,
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:47 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Default Re: Wives Initiating Sex/Sexual Issues in Marriage

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Originally Posted by Catherine602 View Post
I didn't mean foolish to want a partner who likes to give. But to base ones choice of a mate based on what they are willing to do in the dating stage.
To be honest, what other evidence base do you expect people to have? They can't know what the other person is or is not going to do or change into once married, so what are they supposed to base their choice on?
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