That's the big dilemma, isn't it. You put your foot down to create a boundary, and she feels trapped. She told me she just wasn't used to me setting boundaries and making ultimatums like that. So let's see how she handles it.
Interesting point. She had a sort of mini-EA over a year ago that, I think, is affecting my thoughts on this. I waited way too long to set a boundary and even then did it weakly. Nothing makes you feel more insecure about your marriage than when your spouse starts to go outside of it.
I'm going to hone in on this...and tell you again, do no let your wife meet up with this guy. ESPECIALLY with and EA (however mini) under hr belt. You know who the controlling one is? SHE is.
Thanks you guys. This sucks on a few levels, some of which I can't go into here.
We'll see. She did say that at first, but when I made it very clear that it would be disrespectful and would piss me off, I think she realized that was a mistake. Either that or she realized that she should tell me what I want to hear. Her point is simply that this guy has never hit on her, never acted like he was interested, and never done anything to make her think he wants to sleep with her. I'm about 95% sure I've seen everything they've written back and forth, and she's right about that. In print/text, he has no interest in her sexually or romantically.
She told me this morning that she understands that I'm "just telling her what I'm comfortable with," (in other words, not being controlling) and that she doesn't think the issue will even come up. We'll see. I feel like now I have to be really vigilant.
What about the other 5%? Who cares if she thinks you're controlling, she obviously needs reigning in!
You know what? I once had an affair that could have been quite easily quashed, if my then boyfriend had put his foot down. Instead, I was basically openly dating someone else, right in front of him and everyone else we knew; we were 'just friends'. Until about 2 years in....then, all the clothes came off!
That's why I get so whipped up about posts like yours. She's basically asking your permission, and you're giving it to her.
My initial gut feeling proved false. My wife did not go behind my back at all, but they did end up meeting. The other guy actually invited us both but there was no way I could make it.
I told her that I did not want her meeting him again unless I was with her. Plain and simple. At first, she just agreed and was understanding of my feelings on it. After more discussion this weekend, her tune has changed somewhat.
Now she says, finding a time where we can both meet him is completely impractical, bordering on ridiculous. Plus she doesn't want to have to tell him she can't meet unless I'm there. It makes our marriage seem immature and makes me look like a control freak. She actually started to get defensive about it and suggested that she would consider my opinion but would probably still meet with him if he asked.
I told her that if she did that, she would be completely disrespecting me and I would know where I stand. After a few minutes of pondering that point and reiterating that "there is nothing to worry about," she told me that should wouldn't disrespect me.
So now we're left with a bit of a rift. She's unhappy because I don't trust her and I'm coming off as controlling. I'm happy that I stood my ground, but wondering if I caused more damage than if I'd just let it go.
Me thinks she protests too much. So she did meet with him without you. She was able to make her date with him because you were unable to be there to c0ckblock, which is what we are talking about. Basically you need to tell her she must go NC with this guy. Your boundary of her seeing her male friend only with you present is very telling. She really wants to be isolated from you with this guy. She has way too much interest in this other guy for a married woman. She has indeed binded with this guy. A man other than her husband. This is already art the stage of at least an early EA and possibly more.
I think you chose this type of boundary because you continue to be "fair". You need to come to grips with what you would like to believe about trust and all the idealism and with the harsh reality that if you do not get this squashed you are going to lose your wife to another man. maybe not this guy but this sets up a precedent for her to date other men under the guise of we are just friends who like to hangout. Married women do not hangout / date OM without severe consequnces to the marriage sooner or later. This is no longer about what you believe would be nice.
A woman breaks a husbands trust when she puts another man in between them. Marriage is about love and respect. She is acting like she is still single and has a steady guy but has not fully commited yet to the level of a married woman. For some reason you think being about this is going to help you. Stop being so nice. You made some progress, and I applaud you for starting down the road of boundaries. Her reaction to this is a red flag and indicates you need to tell her her relationship with this guy is unacceptable. Pull the c0ckblock routine off of the table. Realize that once in an EA being around the other person does not allow them to go through withdrawal.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Thanks you guys. This sucks on a few levels, some of which I can't go into here.
We'll see. She did say that at first, but when I made it very clear that it would be disrespectful and would piss me off, I think she realized that was a mistake. Either that or she realized that she should tell me what I want to hear. Her point is simply that this guy has never hit on her, never acted like he was interested, and never done anything to make her think he wants to sleep with her. I'm about 95% sure I've seen everything they've written back and forth, and she's right about that. In print/text, he has no interest in her sexually or romantically.
She told me this morning that she understands that I'm "just telling her what I'm comfortable with," (in other words, not being controlling) and that she doesn't think the issue will even come up. We'll see. I feel like now I have to be really vigilant.
Dude, I was in an EA. They are often very innocent when they start. Realize that this is much like playing just the tip. You need her to drop this guy. You need a stronger boundary here. She is choosing him over you. Don't be gray about it because when someone is in an EA there are chemicals at work. She has split her loyalties across you too guys. Yet you are the one committed to her. She needs to go NC. I would then tell the other guy that he is to be gone for the rest of eternity. He is investing too much time in YOUR wife. Men do not do that unless they are looking for something more. You have been warned sir, by folks who have been through and see this for what it is. It is chemical. Oxytocin and Dopamine. You are very close to I Love You But I Am Not In Love with you. You will be called jealous, controlling and insecure. You are accussed of not trusting her. The truth is you should not trust the situation and you should not trust this other guy with YOUR wife. She is not HIS wife. Tell him to bug off but tell her first she must go NC.
Be aware that EAs can explode in a matter of days or hours. Meaning it can go to kissing which opens the flood gates to running to his pad to watch a movie.
Oh that brings up a point. Where did she meet him. She is not going to his place is she? Sghe wants to cake eat.
Do you really think this guy would not want to have sex with her? Really?
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 04-02-2012 at 02:19 PM.
That's the big dilemma, isn't it. You put your foot down to create a boundary, and she feels trapped. She told me she just wasn't used to me setting boundaries and making ultimatums like that. So let's see how she handles it.
No. Wrong. Errrrrgh!
That's not a dilemma. Her feeling trapped isn't a consequence of you setting boundaries. This is normal relationship stuff that every couple does to keep a healthy relationship.
It only feels like control, or being trapped, when she wants to go outside of the marriage to meet her needs. To put it another way, if she told you she wasn't comfortable with you going out alone with another woman whose company you enjoyed, would you turn around and call her controlling?
You're not being controlling, you're expressing your discomfort with her emotional bonding with another dude, and not tolerating it. You're sticking up for your marriage and trying to protect it. If that makes you controlling, then own it 100%.
Controlling is when you feel the need to micromanage her entire life. As a "nice guy", you can be the biggest douche on the planet and you'll end up somewhere in a healthy middle ground between total doormat and controlling jerkoff.
Don't accept your wife's protests that you're being a jerk. Reattach your sack and let her know that you aren't gonna be played like that.
As I'm fond of saying, WWBD, What Would Brad Pitt Do? Brad's a guy with self-respect. If Brad is married to your wife, is he going to let her text and FB message some weird guy so she can console him in his relationship depression? And then go meet up somewhere for drinks? Screw that! Brad would say something like, "I'm Brad effing Pitt, you can either have this package, or if that isn't enough, you can go get with loser boy. If this isn't good enough, let me know so I can split and start getting with hotter and better women." And then walk away completely unphased. Because Brad knows that if something happens in his relationship, he's still gonna go on to have a damn good life.
It's your wife's decision whether or not she wants to stay pot committed. You're not controlling anything, you're letting her know where you stand. If she makes the decision to disrespect, that's her problem not yours. If you put out a sign and say, "Don't touch the cookie or you'll get slapped." And someone touches the cookie and gets slapped, do you blame yourself for putting up the sign?
That's the big dilemma, isn't it. You put your foot down to create a boundary, and she feels trapped. She told me she just wasn't used to me setting boundaries and making ultimatums like that. So let's see how she handles it.
It is only trapped is she wants to be in an open marriage and not willing to be mongamous.
So yes boundaries are intend to establish integrity. if that integrity is not acceptable to a spouse then they feel trapped being married.
How much time do you think she spends worrying about your feelings? From evidence given ... not so much. She should never have put herself in to this.
Inappropriate -> Unfaithful -> Cheating.
Her relationship is inappropriate. You have shown this. Her have a conflict between choosing you of her boy friend is unfaithful. I have no idea whether they are in full blown cheating ... yet. But is it well on the way.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 04-04-2012 at 01:53 PM.
That's not a dilemma. Her feeling trapped isn't a consequence of you setting boundaries. This is normal relationship stuff that every couple does to keep a healthy relationship.
It only feels like control, or being trapped, when she wants to go outside of the marriage to meet her needs. To put it another way, if she told you she wasn't comfortable with you going out alone with another woman whose company you enjoyed, would you turn around and call her controlling?
You're not being controlling, you're expressing your discomfort with her emotional bonding with another dude, and not tolerating it. You're sticking up for your marriage and trying to protect it. If that makes you controlling, then own it 100%.
Controlling is when you feel the need to micromanage her entire life. As a "nice guy", you can be the biggest douche on the planet and you'll end up somewhere in a healthy middle ground between total doormat and controlling jerkoff.
Don't accept your wife's protests that you're being a jerk. Reattach your sack and let her know that you aren't gonna be played like that.
As I'm fond of saying, WWBD, What Would Brad Pitt Do? Brad's a guy with self-respect. If Brad is married to your wife, is he going to let her text and FB message some weird guy so she can console him in his relationship depression? And then go meet up somewhere for drinks? Screw that! Brad would say something like, "I'm Brad effing Pitt, you can either have this package, or if that isn't enough, you can go get with loser boy. If this isn't good enough, let me know so I can split and start getting with hotter and better women." And then walk away completely unphased. Because Brad knows that if something happens in his relationship, he's still gonna go on to have a damn good life.
It's your wife's decision whether or not she wants to stay pot committed. You're not controlling anything, you're letting her know where you stand. If she makes the decision to disrespect, that's her problem not yours. If you put out a sign and say, "Don't touch the cookie or you'll get slapped." And someone touches the cookie and gets slapped, do you blame yourself for putting up the sign?
I lke the WWBD. Egos aside folks, this is how I am about my marriage. If a guy is dialing back his boundaries because he feels he falls short of being his wife's Brad Pitt he might as well just hand her off to the next guy she fancies. You better be her Brad Effing Pitt. This is what your attitude has to be.
If you are worried about offending your wife due to her relationship with her boy friend you might as well let the BF help with the decisions you make around the house. Maybe he should pick the color for the bedroom. It will be his soon enough. No joke.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
I lke the WWBD. Egos aside folks, this is how I am about my marriage. If a guy is dialing back his boundaries because he feels he falls short of being his wife's Brad Pitt he might as well just hand her off to the next guy she fancies. You better be her Brad Effing Pitt. This is what your attitude has to be.
He's probably having the same problem I'm having...my husband understands the need for boundaries and he gets that I'm trying to protect the marriage; but he's only 80% convinced. The other 20% he's busy trying to make exceptions for women he's known a long time, or women he doesn't perceive as a threat. Where I see things like boundaries that MUST apply to all. He thinks that I see everyone out there as a potential threat. And maybe I do; but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Sometimes I think he needs to see things from my perspective; he would need to see what a threatening male outsider really looked like and then he'd see where I'm coming from and take these things seriously, instead of just humouring me, going along with it just to keep the peace.
He's probably having the same problem I'm having...my husband understands the need for boundaries and he gets that I'm trying to protect the marriage; but he's only 80% convinced. The other 20% he's busy trying to make exceptions for women he's known a long time, or women he doesn't perceive as a threat. Where I see things like boundaries that MUST apply to all. He thinks that I see everyone out there as a potential threat. And maybe I do; but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Sometimes I think he needs to see things from my perspective; he would need to see what a threatening male outsider really looked like and then he'd see where I'm coming from and take these things seriously, instead of just humouring me, going along with it just to keep the peace.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
He's probably having the same problem I'm having...my husband understands the need for boundaries and he gets that I'm trying to protect the marriage; but he's only 80% convinced. The other 20% he's busy trying to make exceptions for women he's known a long time, or women he doesn't perceive as a threat. Where I see things like boundaries that MUST apply to all. He thinks that I see everyone out there as a potential threat. And maybe I do; but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
This is where I'm at now. The reason I chose to frame the boundary as I did is that I'm not sure if this guy is actually a threat. Do I worry he is? Yes. Do I think he could be at some point? Yes. But I do have enough respect for my wife at this point to give her at least some benefit of the doubt. I'm not someone that believes that every man can be categorized as a walking penis--I have more respect for myself than that so I can afford that to others until I see differently.
That's why I haven't just said, "no contact you cheating *****," because that would be far too extreme given what I know.
Quote:
Sometimes I think he needs to see things from my perspective; he would need to see what a threatening male outsider really looked like and then he'd see where I'm coming from and take these things seriously, instead of just humouring me, going along with it just to keep the peace.
I agree with you here. The problem is that it's just about impossible. Whether she's convinced the guy's just friendly, or she actually wants to escalate their relationship--either way it's impossible for her to actually step into my shoes to feel what I'm feeling. To commit to my boundary, it has to be an act of faith on her part, because her gut feeling is going to be totally different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by COGuy
That's not a dilemma. Her feeling trapped isn't a consequence of you setting boundaries. This is normal relationship stuff that every couple does to keep a healthy relationship.
I'm not saying she's actually trapped, or that's how she should feel. I'm saying that's the risk you run when you establish a boundary that wasn't there before. Yes, I regret not bringing this up with her six months ago with this guy, but there didn't seem to be any chance of them actually meeting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by COGuy
It's your wife's decision whether or not she wants to stay pot committed. You're not controlling anything, you're letting her know where you stand. If she makes the decision to disrespect, that's her problem not yours.
This is exactly how I'm approaching it.
Basically, I've said, "I have a weird feeling about you being with this guy alone, despite the fact that there's no evidence that there's any threat. I'm not OK with it, so I don't want you to meet with him again unless I'm with you."
If other things happen that require action, I will take it, but at this point I've done what I can reasonably do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff/BC
~blinks~
Wait a second... she's already "sort of cheated on you" once? don't you think that ought to "affect your thoughts"?
That's exactly what I'm saying, Jeff. If the stuff before hadn't happened, I'd probably still be a little wary but nowhere near as vocal about my boundaries. I made a commitment to myself that I would not stand for it again. If I see this relationship going down the road to an EA or PA, I'm putting a stop to it. And if she refuses, she can find a man who will put up with it.
Sky-I have respect for my husband, too, and yes, it bothers him that the trust isn't 100% there. Why isn't it? Because he used to lie to me. Not about anything major, but the damage was done. I suspect that the damage to you was done during your wife's mini-EA...tell her that. She's got to earn back the trust - and I don't mean by letting her have her friend...
You got burned before and didn't learn your lesson. Threats don't "appear" (well sometimes they do, but not usually). Threats are forged through time and slow growth. Most married women don't go from happy housewife to cheating wh*re. They develop an emotional bond over time and then do the slow fade and all of a sudden "it just happened!"
You set boundaries not because your wife is a wh*re, but because you don't want inappropriate relationships to develop. As you said, you have this conversation six months ago and you'll never be posting on the boards about how uncomfortable you are.
And don't be naive. A long distance EA can be just as detrimental and dangerous. Look at how many stories on here that started out like yours ended up with a woman who went through extraordinary lengths to hook up. Lying about business trips, stealing the family car for two weeks. Hell, my wife was ready to take out a credit card just to fund a "spiritual vacation" that involved screwing her 2,000 mile away EA partner over the weekend.
Don't make the same mistakes we did. Grow some nards, establish boundaries, and hold eachother accountable to them. If she doesn't like that, you've got bigger problems than supposedly stirring the hornet's nest. If talking about boundaries riles anyone's feathers, you're in a dangerous place.
This guy IS a threat and the only one that can't see it is you. She's willing to CONSIDER pissing you off just to see him. If he wasn't a threat it wouldn't be worth the hassle for her. Would you piss off your wife to go meet with a butt ugly homeless woman? Probably not, but if Megan Fox wanted to meet for a drink after work, you'd probably CONSIDER it.
Girls aren't as superficial, they've been talking for 6 months, admittedly 2nd only to you. They're bonding emotionally. Chemicals are at work in her brain, the same chemicals that work in yours when you see a hot naked woman.
This is where I'm at now. The reason I chose to frame the boundary as I did is that I'm not sure if this guy is actually a threat. Do I worry he is? Yes. Do I think he could be at some point? Yes. But I do have enough respect for my wife at this point to give her at least some benefit of the doubt. I'm not someone that believes that every man can be categorized as a walking penis--I have more respect for myself than that so I can afford that to others until I see differently.
That's why I haven't just said, "no contact you cheating *****," because that would be far too extreme given what I know.
I agree with you here. The problem is that it's just about impossible. Whether she's convinced the guy's just friendly, or she actually wants to escalate their relationship--either way it's impossible for her to actually step into my shoes to feel what I'm feeling. To commit to my boundary, it has to be an act of faith on her part, because her gut feeling is going to be totally different.
I'm not saying she's actually trapped, or that's how she should feel. I'm saying that's the risk you run when you establish a boundary that wasn't there before. Yes, I regret not bringing this up with her six months ago with this guy, but there didn't seem to be any chance of them actually meeting.
This is exactly how I'm approaching it.
Basically, I've said, "I have a weird feeling about you being with this guy alone, despite the fact that there's no evidence that there's any threat. I'm not OK with it, so I don't want you to meet with him again unless I'm with you."
If other things happen that require action, I will take it, but at this point I've done what I can reasonably do.
That's exactly what I'm saying, Jeff. If the stuff before hadn't happened, I'd probably still be a little wary but nowhere near as vocal about my boundaries. I made a commitment to myself that I would not stand for it again. If I see this relationship going down the road to an EA or PA, I'm putting a stop to it. And if she refuses, she can find a man who will put up with it.
I've made all that clear to her already.
You do not object to the situation AFTER it happens. Boundaries are intended to stop it BEFORE it happens. Boundaries are not for cheaters. They are for non cheaters.
It is not about her cheating, which she may be. I think she is being unfaithful at the least. It is you allowing her to date another man. Now all this should be very clear but you just flat want it to be another way.
She does need to make that act of faith and trust you. Why is it all about trusting her? She is not respecting or trusting you. If she really loved you she would be too afraid of pushing you away. That is the red flag.
All men not her relatives are a threat. You don't want to believe this. This guy is single. OMG. He is invested in her. No guy is harmless. Anyway, good luck.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 04-02-2012 at 06:44 PM.
Any guy she is talking to almost as much as her hubby is a threat. It's not that he's a walking penis, but that he's a fixture in her life that is almost as constant as you, meaning...he's the competition.
So, be firm about this. You're tip-toeing around the issue and telling her it's not a problem for you. She's going to take that to mean that since her H doesn't care all that much to give her attention, it's okay to get attention from the other source of male attention (potential OM). She's testing the waters. This is how affairs begin. You have the chance to stop it now or watch yourself get sucked into the whirlpool of disaster that lives on the CWI boards because many there didn't notice that the waters were being tested...
Just tell her firmly and confidently that you think she spends too much time with this guy and it bugs you. You're not telling her she can't have guy friends, just telling her that this guy is de-stabilizing the sanctity of your marriage and she is encouraging it and that's not okay with you.
Tell her that she is being shady and that if she cares about you and your marriage she will not hook up with some dude, even "just as friends" because her attention to this dude is a problem for you. If she goes anyway, give her the cold shoulder and let her know that you are NOT okay with it...and then monitor what she does to make sure it doesn't happen again or become an affair. If she concedes to your request and chooses the marriage over the moron on the sidelines, then you up your ante at home by being more romantic and giving her the attention that she is clearly craving; that will show her that you do care and that she can get her needs met at home by asking.
You might risk upsetting her and pushing her away, but, if she cares less about her husband than she does about Joe Schmoe, then she's not worth holding on to. Don't let this crumble because you're afraid of pushing her away (Mr Nice Guy); show her that you value the marriage and are protecting it for the both of you.
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Re: Friends and boundaries 
