Bluemoon1

Great forum really enjoyed reading it, we are both in our 40’s been together over 20 years married for last two and bit years (it was a long engagement) have one daughter who is away at University

It’s also a relief to know that I am not the only one in a low sex marriage, like many husbands in this situation I have tried almost everything she has even seen me in tears of frustration. Her usual response is look the other way and refuse to discuss the issue, to her there is no problem, and after reading this forum I can see that this true. I have been the emotional one in the relationship, constantly telling her I love her, dropping her texts, phone calls etc. It’s never worked we normally do it once a week if I am lucky get the usual avoidance tactics, like staying up late (when she said she was tired go figure), even feigning illness.

I would characterise the relationship prior to February as her being quite aggressive and bossy with me especially in public, I read Athol Kay’s work and decided to put a stop to that right away, I told her in no uncertain terms I would not tolerate that kind of behaviour and up to now she has actually stopped doing it and is a lot more respectful, especially in public.

Decided to work on the low sex part, I have some very minor concerns about possible infidelity especially last year when some Red Flags were slapping me in face, but at the time I did not notice them, up to now I have seen no obvious signs and I have hunted high and low and done some investigation and can find no evidence, although she is borderline OCD and knows when I have been looking so if she is up to anything it will be well covered up now, decided to relax a little on this, if there is anything it will show up, the key is to be aware, from experience of others I know that not every sign is obvious/

I have always been the one to provide the emotional input to the relationship and I am afraid to say that in many respects I have become needy, always telling her I love her, calling her to see how she is, send texts, it’s never reciprocated, in fact she dropped a hint to me the other week about other peoples husbands not calling them at work, so I dropped that one.

She actually enjoys sex,(although she often claims she has a low libido, but many a night when she comes to bed late I have heard her masturbating, which I don’t mind by the way) but not with me at the moment, it’s getting more infrequent and less enjoyable she just wants to get it over with, her standard line is “are we doing it or what” in a very aggressive tone, I won’t go into all the details for now.

Another problem I notice with her, is that she is completely self centred, I have a better job, with better pay, and professionally qualified and do quite well, but when we both come home at night, she never asks me about my day, but goes on and on about her day, when I try to talk about my day she just looks bored, and then quickly goes back to her day, it’s annoying to say the least.

So I have decided to turn the emotional thermostat down, a notch or two a day, and have set myself some golden rules, no contact through the day, no Love You text messages, no talk about sex, no innuendo, no touching it’s completely off the agenda as far as I am concerned. No saying I love you no offers of hugs or kisses.

Now the results have been quite surprising, she has actually started hugging me and offering me kisses and telling me she loves me, it’s something she very rarely did before, I have remained quite cold with her, well not quite cold but treating her more as a friend than a wife or lover, I would like to know if this is a pretty standard response and what to expect next, and any other ideas for cooling things off, we both do our fair share of chores around the house although because she is borderline OCD things are never quite right

One last thing, she joked the other week about having a leaving fund, I told her I did not find it funny, she accused me of being over sensitive and it was like walking on eggshells with me, guess what I found real evidence that she is actually squirreling money away and quite a lot, for what I don’t know it could be a leaving fund, it irks me that I pay for almost everything (we do have separate accounts) and she is always pleading that she does not have enough money left from her salary, yet she is putting away nearly £300 a month, I have just paid out nearly £2,000 for a luxury holiday for this summer as well. I thought maybe it was for our daughters forthcoming 21st but she has asked me to pay for a major present.

I would really appreciate your thoughts and comments, to be honest although we get on well we are more like roommates, and I am not prepared to put up with another 20 years of this

Hicks

I would tell her all the things you are prepared to do and be as a husband to a wife. I would tell her all the things you expect in a wife of yours (be direct here: I expect to be treated with respect. I expect you meet my needs for sex with postiive attidude, etc). Then tell her to spend a day or two thinking about whether she wants to live this way. If she chooses not to be the wife you need and accept the husbanding you provide, she is choosing divorce.

MEM11363

Hicks,
Sorry but I really don't agree with this. It is way too extreme after 20 years mostly chasing her, and overheating the relationship.

Blue,
It is now time to lower the financial temperature in the relationship. NO expensive gifts or trips. In fact, going forward you pay for your share of stuff and that is it. Don't discuss it with her, and don't debate it when she complains. AND start tracking her credit card spend/debt because some folks go on a spending spree the year before a divorce and then the "debt" gets split 50/50 by the court. Be very careful of that.

Dedicated2Her

Blue, please listen to this. You can't fix this through your actions. That is, in terms of treating her as a loving spouse. Fact is, she is setting you up to stab you in the back. She is selfish. Putting back money? There needs to be total transparency in this. If she is planning on divorce, which she is, you have to do some tough things which include almost treating her as a wayward business partner. It sucks, but without her transparency, there is no way for you guys to work together and do what is in the best interest of everyone involved. Time to get your own checking account, sorry man.

__________________
"Somewhere in my many trail runs and weight lifting sessions I found more than physical strength. I found I had the emotional strength I needed to survive my divorce and come out happy on the other side." Yep.

marriedat19

Okay reading both of those paragraphs.. it's not good. Her joke was not funny because it was more like a hint. She started liking you more or wanting to be more clingy because you were pushing her away, and she was forced to chase you. Also if she is masturbating in bed and your married and she is in the much control that she wont included you....not good. Why don't you start saying things like. "You masturbate a lot for a girl...:-/" or "your always playing with yourself and rarely want to have sex, you must not be a very sexual woman.." :-/.. If you some what make her feel like she is weird, you are going to get laid a lot lol. Why do guys like *****es, and girls like ****s? Besides from the sounds of it she has had her fair share of being a *****, if any part of you wants to work this out you need to man up and do not call her or text her ever first.. until she starts getting a hold of you, if she doesn't then maybe she is taking her fund and peacing out either way you need to figure it out.

Bluemoon1

Thanks for all your replies

At the moment I am trying to keep an open mind, the thing that rang the alarm bells was her denial about having a leaving account and getting so worked up about me even thinking she would do such a thing, but the other day I had a look in her draw and tucked away in a make-up bag was £200, I think she drew it out on the Monday, it's still there mind you her savings bank is in the middle of town, so she has not had chance to bank it yet, or it could be a gift for my daughter, although I doubt that. By the way we do have separate accounts I have never liked the idea of joint accounts except for the bill paying account, although I am always open and transparent about my money

I would be interested in anyone's thoughts about the self centerness, and does it indicate anything (apart from being self centred that is) it's just strange how she never seems to ask me about my day or how I am.

I was reading a thread called The Downward Spiral on here, I can tell you that summed up our sex life to a tee! I normally perform oral sex on her and she has an orgasm, and then we have sex nearly every time she has cum, and just before we have full sex she starts talking about some random event or about work, it's really strange it's like OK just get on with this I have had my fun.

The more I see and remember the more strange it gets.

One thing that does bother me about turning down the thermostat is that sometimes I start to feel real guilt and quite uncomfortable about it all, I am a very loving person and it's quite hard for me to do, although I am sticking with it, preferring to see it as an experiment just to see what the outcome will be

Bluemoon1

Sorry one more thing, last year (and part of this year) it seemed that she could not wait to get away from me, any excuse to get out of the house, I actually knew where she was most of the time (thanks to her having my iphone most of the time) but that seems to have stopped for the time being.

It was New years Eve that really set the alarm bells off, we had been out to see a band, but left early because they were not very good, I had, had a few drinks (she very rarely drinks, and she was driving) when we got home and celebrated the midnight hour she informs me that she was going to her friends house, because her friends teenage son was having a party and she needed help, I thought WTF! but said nothing I did check and she was there and I have heard all the stories about the party, but still this was New years Eve, and that's when i started looking and she knew I had been rooting, like I said it's all very strange, I will keep you posted

Bluemoon1

Just a quick update, she has noticed that I am turning down the thermostat, but is now playing it quite cool, not said she loved me for 24 hrs,no hugs etc, we are still getting on, but I am still keeping it on a purely platonic basis.

The sad thing is the more she holds back now the more it deeply hurts, because I have always been the one to put the effort in, it seems that I could have been keeping something together that may never have meant to be together if you know what I mean.

It still feels rather strange and it is very hard for me after all these years, plus it's all counter intuitive, after all my experts tell you to talk about these issues, tried that 1000's of times to no effect, in fact it sometimes made it even worse

I will keep you posted

Bluemoon1

Hi Dean

I wish it were so simple to be honest, but this has been going on for years now, I beleive that I have found out what the problem actually is, and that is I have allowed her to become dominate in the relationship, in fact the more I look at it, it's quite obvious, it was not always like this in fact she is naturally quite submissive, I won't go into details but the sex she liked then she always took the submissive position, but I never realised this until now

Halien

I very much agree with Mem's advice here. I'd put a halt on this lavish trip that the two of you discussed.

This brings me to a point where I would recognize that you may or may not feel comfortable with some additional actions that I would take: She will obviously notice the change. It will likely instigate a serious discussion at some point, too. I would seize this opportunity, when the inevitable conflict arises, to settle the past and set the mutual expectations going forward. Tell her that based on her low-key involvement in the emotional part of the marriage, you have no choice but to take her exit fund joke as her real intent. She's never really given you reason to think that she is dreaming of a 'happily ever after'. I would tell her that it is up to her to take the lead in showing that this is not her intent. Also, her behaviors in the past also make you doubt her fidelity. A condition of staying married will have to be a full admission of what really went on. If she leaves it so vague, thinking that a normal guy will buy in to a rash decision to leave you on New Years' night, then she is mistaken. Just let her know that you can't accept that. You could even accept the truth if there is something to it, but not an open question mark. Really, although she will not know it, even to have her understand that such ambiguous approach to her marriage can lead you to such doubts would be enough. Maybe she was faithful, but she created an environment of mistrust, and can certainly acknowledge this.

There are many ways that you might go about introducing this conflict, but my point is that I think you should deliberately turn this into a resolution event. If you treat it like your expecation is that 'more of the same' will never be acceptable going forward, if there is a 'going forward', I think you have an opportunity to settle things to a degree that gives you peace of mind that your future will be a sincere attempt on her part.

While I didn't have the incidences that would make me suspect infidelity, I did have a very unbalanced approach to emotional fullfillment in marriage. I drove the conflict, almost to the point of divorce just because I could no longer accept the status quo. Not sure if others would be willing to push it to resolution this way, because there is always the risk that she'll choose to leave. I just knew my wife enough to know that she wanted to be more supportive, but just couldn't overcome some of the problems that prevented it. This time brought real healing for us.

Havesomethingtosay

I don't know how you undo 20 years, but good luck. I was really caught by the comments about her masturbating while you ask for more sex, which is a huge red flag and how much you claim to to put her on a pedestal, texts, ILY's, compliments..... You sound way too needy.

Grow a pair and start looking out for yourself. No screaming or crying and being too emotional.

Good that you've started, I just hope it's not too late.

Enchantment

Hi BlueMoon ~

I'm sorry you are going through this.

I think you should have investigated this party a lot more closely - she could have been meeting someone there.

I think you should continue on pulling back the emotional temp, even though it is hard.

And I think you should also be getting your 'ducks in a row' and be prepared that your wife may really be pulling the wool over your eyes. I think that additional clandestine investigation on her activities is in order. You've got a number of red flags.

Best wishes.

__________________

Enter these enchanted woods, You who dare. ~ George Meredith

Bluemoon1

From what I have read it's never to late, but to be honest it's all or bust, I have to bear some responsibility for this though and I am trying to fix it, been working really hard in the garden, it was a domain that she had even took over (apart for the really hard jobs) but today I just did what I wanted to do, planted and pruned the way I wanted to, did not ask for her advice or approval, she actually seemed quite happy about it.

I have also been putting in a a bit more work around the house, this may seem a little beta, but I am doing it without been asked or ordered, and more importantly I am doing stuff my way, if you get what I mean.

We were going to go out tonight, but the band we were going to see has been cancelled, something quite unusual happened, she came into my office put her arms around me, told me there were some good shows on TV tonight and "Perhaps a bit of Love" which is her code word, it's a small thing but she has intimated, I did not say anything (one reason is I know perhaps is a bit of a get out clause) but I did not want to appear to be needy to her, I won't mention it again and wait and see what happens tonight, bearing in mind Saturday is the usual night she likes to have sex with me (or not as the case has been) so small little changes are beginning to show.

One thing that is beginning to happen with this turning down the thermostat, I am beginning to think I wish you would just **** off if you don't want to have a full and proper relationship with me, I am joining the Gym next week, (we get great corporate rates) and plan to visit my parents who live 60 miles away (not a long way by US standards but quite far by UK standards)

FormerNiceGuy

The point isn't to save the relationship, it is for you to be healthy, happy and successful. Put your needs first and watch everything fall into place. It is the damnedest thing.

MEM11363

Blue,
Just to be clear, turning down the thermostat is intended to be VERY different than a 180 because a 180 is intended to address a severe issue with your partner such as they are having an ongoing affair.

In a 180 you don't let your partner talk about the relationship and generally reject many/most of their overtures until they end the affair.

Adjusting the thermostat is intended to be a much less extreme approach. For instance if you are always the one saying "ILY" first, stop doing that. Let your partner initiate it and you can say it back the way they normally do with you. So if your normal pattern is:
You: ILY
Her: Me too

The new pattern can be:
Her: ILY
You: Me too

Blue,
From the sound of it your W simply wants you to take a more proactive, leadership role in the marriage.

At risk of being too graphic it is NOT good leadership, and very beta to have a sexual pattern that primarily goes like this:
- Brief kissing / touching
- You giving her oral til she finishes
- You having intercourse while you allow her to talk about "mundane" stuff

Before you go down on her, pin her down on the bed. Wrestle with her a bit. Overpower her. There are plenty of books that do this subject better justice than I ever will. That said, alpha voice with a light edge to it. Short specific commands. Do this, do that. Tell me you will do whatever I say. Amazingly powerful stuff.

If my W started talking about her "day" during intercourse, I would slide my finer up to her lips and let her stay busy by entertaining one or two fingers with her mouth. If she persisted I might have to warn her that continuing to talk about that type stuff would result in a spanking. I can multi-task so we wouldn't have to stop the current activity for me to add that in.

One last thing - you might find that oral - don't finish her - then intercourse and just before you finish - you slide back down and finish her - keeps her MUCH more engaged and intense.

It sounds as if you likely have a very fixable situation.

And there is NOTHING to feel guilty about. If she wants more love from you, she can ask for it. You are not freezing her out, you are giving her space to love you back.