Men, I want the ugly truth from you. - Page 11 - Talk About Marriage
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post #151 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 08:54 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

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It's easy to buy into the lie that women are no longer dependent upon men and that there is no penalty for a woman's adultary. Men bring more to the table than just money. Kids growing up without their fathers statistically get into more trouble, don't do as well in school, and have loads more pysch and emotional problems. A support check isn't a dad. A large percentage of households in poverty are headed by divorced women, so support payments don't replace a husband's income. Child support ends when the child reaches adulthood. Mom will still want to eat after her kids are grown. There are penalties to be paid but they are paid mostly by kids. A woman may have a job but two paychecks beat one and two pensions beat one. Similarly, kids need what mothers bring to the table and usually, the birth mother is best positioned to provide it. Both men and women win when a healthy marriage works out and both lose when it doesn't. Kids win when it works out and they suffer a great deal when it doesn't. Nobody's getting a free ride for screwing up.
Not saying there are any free rides. It is a comparison between now and fifty years ago. It is about statistics. How the numbers can change based on this. Much has changed from the 1950s / 1960s. That is my point. Birth Control for one thing.

I am not referring to alimony or child support. I am talking about women in careers with their own money.

Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
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post #152 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 09:04 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

We are sometimes nervous as hell when we say "everything will be alright"

The stress of being the breadwinner can weigh heavy on our mind

We didn't marry you for your looks. It is part of the equation but generally not the major reason

Contrary to network television execs, we are not idiots who burn the house down doing laundry

We're not looking to trade you in for a younger model

We can be jealous of the the energy, effort, attention you put into our kids and if we are left wanting.

In thy foul throat thou liest.
― William Shakespeare, Richard III

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post #153 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 09:28 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

dont tell me you didnt get to something important because you "didnt have time" when i know you spent 8 hours on the computer researching baseball bats
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post #154 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 09:34 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

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If you believe that, I have some swamp land in Florida I want to talk to you about! The difference between a gentleman and a rogue is his actions. you can't undo biology. A gentleman definitely notices the beautiful woman in the room and yes, he does, if ever so fleetingly, wonder about what she looks like naked. And the Magnus Opus comment is right out of some romance novel.
It is sad to see people who don't realize that self master is more than self denial.

The greatest philosophers of our time realized that one's mind is like clay to do with it what we will. Life hands you stimulus and you either dwell on it until the next more stimulating thing comes along or else you reach into your mind and think of something more noble.

I know this is the same as me saying that you have spent your life reacting to stimulus like a simple rodent, but in all honesty I only intend to empower you to be a more evolved individual. One who has the ability to shape his own mind and destiny.
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post #155 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 09:36 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

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I know it would hurt my wife but I know my brain is capable of having sex with another woman and never giving her a second thought afterwards.
I know you said your "brain" here....The brain is different than accually living it out...even if you was FREE & single to do so. I suppose my husbands brain could do this ... (a quesetion for him tonight!)

....By his own words (darn I wish he would post on here -he would if I really wanted him too)....he was never the user type...he has told me....even in his youth, he would never have sex without feelings for a girl, he is the type that NEEDS an emotional connection. He has always been this way. It is not even sex to him. He would choose his hand over the other .

Even now.. after being married over 20 yrs... he sometimes feels "selfish" if I am not getting mine, he loves a BJ - don't get me wrong, but he would choose pleasing me. He is just not the norm in some ways. He also can not have sex if he is upset, if we have a fight --he is out for the count.... we have to make up or I ain't gettin' any.


Quote:
Halien said : There are certain men who really are like this, given a marriage where the wife is also committed. My wife worries about aging, but it is really almost unexplainable how she gets more beautiful as the years pass. Even when we went through the lowest point, where we almost divorced, our respect for each other kept us faithful. In the early years, there were situations where her sister and several friends blatantly tried to build a relationship, but faithfulness was not a question. I think it boils down to becoming a man who knows himself, and what is important in life. Just a personal opinion, but if a guy can't readily describe how he looks forward to spending his life with his wife, and what that means to him, then he's not ready, and not the type who will be faithful.
My husband is like this described here.


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post #156 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 09:40 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

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Originally Posted by Kobo View Post
We are sometimes nervous as hell when we say "everything will be alright"

The stress of being the breadwinner can weigh heavy on our mind

We didn't marry you for your looks. It is part of the equation but generally not the major reason

Contrary to network television execs, we are not idiots who burn the house down doing laundry

We're not looking to trade you in for a younger model

We can be jealous of the the energy, effort, attention you put into our kids and if we are left wanting.
Awesome and dead on.

Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
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post #157 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 09:58 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

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So no, I dont believe men cannot cheat. Sorry. There, i said it.
So is this the crux of your question?

I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you are looking for, other than it can't possibly be something 'positive' based on your post title.

You have been affected by infidelity I presume? It's a lousy feeling.
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post #158 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 10:02 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

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Wow. Not my definition of a Gentleman at all. A Gentleman is a man of substance but he surely does notices women. He is very Alpha. He is a scholar of something. He may be Engineer or a Soldier or whatever. He is not an effeminate man. He appreciates women. He may be chivalrous or into bishido.

He may indeed have "manners" in the traditional sense but he is a man's man as well. I just do not buy into this picture at all. Do not confuse education with being a Gentlemen though many are well educated. It is just about something else altogether. It is about choices and values. He is a man and likes women.
The highest form of love for a woman is for a man to share all of his heart, soul, and natural urges with said woman and no other.

The same is true of a woman's love for a man. Suggesting that a man who hoots and hollers after other women somehow has more to give his spouse and is more of a man for it, is odd indeed.

When did the picture of a man begin to slide more toward ape?

I wrestled and ran track in high school. I ran marathons in college. I've been rock climbing, hunting, camping since I was young. I've been in my share of fights (and enjoyed them as any man will). I however refuse to recognize someone with diminished mental discipline and temperament as the pinnacle of manhood.
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post #159 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 10:08 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

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The highest form of love for a woman is for a man to share all of his heart, soul, and natural urges with said woman and no other.

The same is true of a woman's love for a man. Suggesting that a man who hoots and hollers after other women somehow has more to give his spouse and is more of a man for it, is odd indeed.

When did the picture of a man begin to slide more toward ape?

I wrestled and ran track in high school. I ran marathons in college. I've been rock climbing, hunting, camping since I was young. I've been in my share of fights (and enjoyed them as any man will). I however refuse to recognize someone with diminished mental discipline and temperament as the pinnacle of manhood.
No one said hoot and holler. You are now giving choices not in evidence. A Gentleman is respectful. A man can be all in for his lady.

This has nothing to do with being an artist with some unnatural sense of repression or denial. he can be faithful. It is not a choice of being the picture you painted and a sleaze.

Reread you original post. You went on a little flowery. It is not what you are saying here.

Having discipline is wonderful in life and sports. Discipline can take many forms. In no way can we put those in sports as models for fidelity either. You are not suggesting that of course. So one can be disciplined in one area of life and not in another.

That said, I personally believe in discipline in what I do. So we may be talking at cross purposes here. We probably mostly agree. I just think a man can appreciate a beuatiful looking woman and not poke his own eyes out. He needs to have enough respect and discispline to act in a faithful manner.

Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty

Last edited by Entropy3000; 04-09-2012 at 10:36 AM.
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post #160 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 10:17 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

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1. We don't care if the paint is white, eggshell, or ivory.
2. We are not horny dogs... You release Pheromones.
3. Our ego's are as fragile as your view of yourself.

and just to be funny...

4. when you say...

Jen's having a baby, lets go to get some things for her, she doesn't know the sex.

we hear

Jen's having a baby, lets go to get some things she needs to have. she doesn't know the sex.
This is priceless...thanks for the laugh!

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
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post #161 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 10:21 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

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Like I already wrote:

Same could be said for gay men.
Just because they are programmed as they are doesnt mean they have to act on it.
Fact is, they all do. Because thats who they are.

How we are programmed is largely what we are.

And I know these statostics, adn facts about men. I know them all too well..


So no, I dont believe men cannot cheat. Sorry. There, i said it.
I think it is much easier to differentiate a man with the constitution to cheat from a man who has the discipline for loyalty.

Those who seem to react to every little thing, are self-indulgent, lack discipline in other areas, and care more about the weekend than what lies 40 years down the road, definitely lack self mastery.

Those who have shown incredible tolerance, ability to plan ahead, consider multiple sides of an issue, have an adequate nest egg, are thrifty, healthy, and show any ability to put off pleasure today for tomorrow are much more likely to possess the mental capacity for loyalty.

Last edited by HalfGrin; 04-09-2012 at 10:24 AM. Reason: typo
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post #162 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 10:25 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

Another truth for many is that despite our focus on work and our family finances, and raising children and concern for that personal trainer of yours or that co-worker and us not showing the type of attention you need when you need it, given the instant choice of giving or risking our lives for you we would in a heartbeat.

I think you would rather we live for you. In most cases we do. We just do not always know what the right thing is at the right time. We try. The ugly truth is that most men try. Not all, but most. We tend to be clueless. Indeed. It works best when we try together.

Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty

Last edited by Entropy3000; 04-09-2012 at 10:29 AM.
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post #163 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 11:05 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

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Aren't you the former open relationship guy?
And yes Monica Belucci is hawt
:-) The open relationship is only fantasy. We did try it at one point. In short, it was a disaster. Took years for us to recover from that. So no, I am not the open relationship guy and she is not the open relationship gal.

As far as Monica Belucci goes... and open relationship status aside, my wife and I both have our "lists." It's basically a free pass list. If a person on that list wants to have sex with one of us then that person is free to do so. Now again it's just fantasy but it's fun! Because really, you never know when Hugh Jackman is going to knock on the door (he's on her list.)
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post #164 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 11:26 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

Good stuff in here, fellas. I have to ask, though, are you expressing these thoughts and this side of yourself freely to your wife? I know sex droughts are a big topic, and I feel that my wife is more attracted to me when I openly express myself raw and uncut, and push my "agenda" without worrying about offending her or asking permission. I've found that it pays to not edit yourself for her sake in many situations because it allows you to be a man and lead instead of follow.
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post #165 of 382 (permalink) Old 04-09-2012, 11:31 AM
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Re: Men, I want the ugly truth from you.

BM, I can honestly say my wife and I do. We have talked about fantasies, even the deep dark ones, affairs, boundaries, you name it. She likes the sharing, I like the sex! And I love her.
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