Very well articulated and thought out. But can you please point out at which point, when I'm explaining all of this to a woman ... does she want to sleep with me?
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
You know I have been successful at many things in my life by affirmation. I learned much of this long ago. It was part of my work training. This was a seminar designed by Lou Tice. I actually point to this as a career changing event for me. It was about programming oneself for the next level(s). It was about growing into a new position or simply about taking on a new project. This is what I do for a living. I take on projects that have not been done before within a company. Projects that most folks are afraid to tackle. They say things like, "but we have never done this before." "We do not have the expertise." And so on. Nothing really unique here. We all do this with our lifes endeavors.
So while it is definitely within my personality to be driven to take on such things, it is all about taking the steps to prepare oneself for the changes that are needed within individuals and companies to adapt to be able to do things they have not done before or to correct behaviors that need to be corrected. If I do not know something I learn it. I do this in many ways. One of the ways is to live it. Visualize in your mind what you are trying to become. Over time as you continually picture what this involves, your behavior starts to be reprogrammed and you actually start behaving the way you visulaize. This is how we make life style changes as well. Most of us do this. Some intuitively.
Doing the above has made a huge difference in my life. I take on new things. I adapt. It is why I have been asked to do new designs, or to build new teams of people to satisfy needs. While I use "I" I contend that this is not about me, rather a general rule for people who do what I do. People who have the willingness to make the changes in their behaviors to take on new challenges. I have learned to use this within my marriage to be a better husband. That took way too long.
Further when people come here with issues we often suggest that they start thinking in a different way. That they start working on themselves. It is less about having them become something they are not and more about harnessing the positive traits and qualities of who they are. Many men are too Alpha. We do not see a lot of those on this site. Not a shocker. Others need to tweak their approach by being less Beta while other need to add some of those traits and skills. Those are things they inside them. Be the ball.
So as Huxley depicts in Brave New World with his Alphas and Betas and so on ... Oh wait, so Alpha and Beta was not invented on this site. LOL. Folks I read this in High School as part of a Utopian Literature class. Anyway in his society people were genetically engineered into their categories and were taught to have pride in their category.
But I digress. My point is that human beings, successful human beings are capable of constant change. I contend the day you stop changing is the day you die. I also think those who can handle change the best or favored over those who do not. Those that are a one trick pony and cannot adapt are chosen for deselection at some point. It is rock, paper and scissors. You do not have to settle for only one.
So I am all good with being comfortable within your own skin. But men can be better men and women can be better women. It is fine to emulate traits of those that you admire in others. You have a right to them. What you are doing is developing those aspects within yourself. This is not fake. You are using your brain to adapt and improve yourself. You are making a better you.
We can "work on ourselves." We are a product of our genetics and our experiences. There is plenty to work with. We can learn new things. There was no book when I was growing up on much of this stuff. Everything You Wanted To Know About Sex was a great book. But it never taught me about relationships. Some men get taught by example from their parents. Hopefully a good example. Others lso receive real mentoring from their father. But I suggest this is all too rare. So we have to learn as we go. We adapt. This ability allows us to survive and thrive. Not doing so makes us miserable and puts us at risk. We are bale to learn and adjust our behaviors towards a happy life and marriage. This is being all you can be. If you pretend you are something you are note ... you are in danger of becoming it.
I do not see any of the categories I would want to be. But there are good and bad traits to choose from across the board. BTW the adage you can't teach an old dog new tricks ... well humans can learn their whole lives. This is a valuable life skill. Please do not dismiss it.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 05-22-2012 at 09:03 AM.
Very well articulated and thought out. But can you please point out at which point, when I'm explaining all of this to a woman ... does she want to sleep with me?
If a woman doesn't appreciate you as a man, find a woman who will, but don't become someone you're not to be with her. Your ultimate happiness depends on it. Otherwise, you're wasting time and the only truth we know is all of us do share limited time here. You just never know, dare to live the life you've imagined.
I have no desire to be alpha, beta, gamma, or pi. I don't care how others label me. What I do want and care about is having a great marriage with my wife. I find these labels to be useful short hand for certain behaviors and actions that I have. What I have found particularly useful is the understanding that my wife was attracted to the whole package. Because of that, changing myself to be the type of husband I thought she wanted (which was mostly the beta type traits) was a huge mistake.
TAM, the MMSL, NMMNG and others have made explicit what I knew but had difficulty articulating - you need to be comfortable and happy with yourself first before you can be happy in your marriage. A big part of that is recognizing and accepting your "alpha" traits and balancing them with the "beta" traits.
That is, as Trenton says much better than I did, be the man my wife appreciated in the first place.
I have no desire to be alpha, beta, gamma, or pi. I don't care how others label me. What I do want and care about is having a great marriage with my wife. I find these labels to be useful short hand for certain behaviors and actions that I have. What I have found particularly useful is the understanding that my wife was attracted to the whole package. Because of that, changing myself to be the type of husband I thought she wanted (which was mostly the beta type traits) was a huge mistake.
TAM, the MMSL, NMMNG and others have made explicit what I knew but had difficulty articulating - you need to be comfortable and happy with yourself first before you can be happy in your marriage. A big part of that is recognizing and accepting your "alpha" traits and balancing them with the "beta" traits.
That is, as Trenton says much better than I did, be the man my wife appreciated in the first place.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
The ability to adapt shows superior intelligence. It is Darwinian. The dominant male is not just confident. They are smart. They can use tools. They can use situations. All else equal the most intelligent Alpha will be the AMOG. An AMOG will use the others strengths against themselves. Depending on the threat they will adapt. They use speed whne speed wins. The use force when force wins. This is adapting.
Everyone adapts in that way, and someone of any type can be intelligent. I think that's getting a little out of scope for these categorizations though. These aren't identifying traits of any of these groups.
Alphas are leaders by charisma. They have a sheer dominance of personality... high intelligence isn't necessarily required.
I previously read that someone mentioned Bill Gates. He's not an alpha to my mind. Women and men aren't gonna flock to the young Bill Gates by sheer charisma. You can be highly successful, intelligent, and even confident and still not be an alpha. Someone like Bill Clinton perhaps.
Take away their fame and everything they've done and leave them with personality alone and its not gonna be Gates who leads. He's a sigma running off and doing his own thing (ie dropping out of Harvard to start Microsoft).
Thank you. My written English isnt so great. Spoken is fluent. I get angry reading men are one way and only alpha matters. I get angry reading that men buy in Athol way and think he is the Messiah. Why would any body take advice from a two time cheater? His book is about tricking/ fooling women and gaming them. Taking a Map and trick women. He knows nothing about real marriage. He knows nothing about love, nothing.
I certainly welcome all inputs. That Athol is not perfect does not mean he does not have some valuable insights. No person is perfect, and to wait for such a person means never learning anything.
Everyone adapts in that way, and someone of any type can be intelligent. I think that's getting a little out of scope for these categorizations though. These aren't identifying traits of any of these groups.
Alphas are leaders by charisma. They have a sheer dominance of personality... high intelligence isn't necessarily required.
I previously read that someone mentioned Bill Gates. He's not an alpha to my mind. Women and men aren't gonna flock to the young Bill Gates by sheer charisma. You can be highly successful, intelligent, and even confident and still not be an alpha. Someone like Bill Clinton perhaps.
Take away their fame and everything they've done and leave them with personality alone and its not gonna be Gates who leads. He's a sigma running off and doing his own thing (ie dropping out of Harvard to start Microsoft).
Just my thoughts.
An AMOG will be highly intelligent and knows how to use that to his advantage.
But why would you take away everything that Bill has accomplished?
Part of a man's attraction is in his status.
Bill Gates is surely a dweeb with skills. I am not saying he is an Alpha. But he is in some ways. He had the confidence to out wit IBM. Yes the his pool guy may be drawing some serious trim. One can say that the Alpha is the pool guy. Maybe so but come on.
I saw a documentary which had at least some anecdotal value. They had random young women evaluate a guy by :
1) His picture
2) His bio which was really all about what he did for a living
They rated the men very high, say an 8, when they were told they had impressive jobs, titles and salaries.
The same picture with a lesser status position became a 4.
I know this does not take into account charisma. BTW there are aspects of charisma that can be learned. Instilling confidence in jjst about any guy works wonders.
My point is that true Alphas will dominate in their realm. If we restrict the realm to dance clubs and super models then fine. An Alpha in one scenario is a loser in another. I absolutely do get the theoretical traits. I do believe we are a combination of experience and genetics. Like any endeavor often fortitude can make up for genetics. Close enough to improve quality of life.
But anyway, I think no matter how one looks at this there are some takeaways that folks can use. I am not saying my view is the best way to look at this. Only that is seems to work for me.
If nothing else it has been an interesting discussion and I have enjoyed the perspectives.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Last edited by Entropy3000; 05-22-2012 at 11:32 AM.
Your statement up in bold is interesting and causes me to think.
My whole life I have continued to learn and grow, become a better man, husband and leader at work.
Strange but I never wanted to be a better man/husband for my wife.
I really love my wife but I don't do it for her, I have always done it for me.
To better myself. She sees the direct benefit of that.
__________________
Rectitude--Courage--Benevolence--Respect--Honesty--Honor--Loyalty
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"Why do we fall? So we might learn to pick ourselves up."
"It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
An AMOG will be highly intelligent and knows how to use that to his advantage.
But why would you take away everything that Bill has accomplished?
Part of a man's attraction is in his status.
Yes, but the attraction of an alpha isn't derived from his his income or accomplishments. Any of the categories may be accomplished. The distinguishing characteristic of an alpha is their charismatic magnetism and pure confidence.
A good looking beta who is a lawyer may be very successful with women... but he'd still be a beta. We could regroup everyone after narrowing the field if you consider it relative (ie men of a certain career), but I think the original classifications are derived from the general population at large.
An alpha might be the charismatic vacuum salesman that seduces the housewife of the wealthy beta lawyer or doctor. Even she doesn't quite understand the attraction.
I'm not sure there's necessarily a correlation between the more intellectual forms of success and being alpha. Just anecdotally, in terms of success, it seems to me some of the obvious alphas are the guys who attain high positions without seemingly knowing a damn thing... through sheer personality and relationships. Business types... executives. I think we all know one of this type in our own companies.
I agree its helpful to absorb certain traits and mitigate shortcomings, particularly boosting one's self image, but I'm inclined to believe the base type remains; this is psuedo-confidence.
In my own experience, working out, age, income and consciously being more extroverted significantly boosted my superficial self-esteem and ability to attract women - but I'm certainly not an alpha.
I don't think alphas think about these things. lol
I hope you don't think I'm being argumentative. I just enjoy the conversation.
Your statement up in bold is interesting and causes me to think.
My whole life I have continued to learn and grow, become a better man, husband and leader at work.
Strange but I never wanted to be a better man/husband for my wife.
I really love my wife but I don't do it for her, I have always done it for me.
To better myself. She sees the direct benefit of that.
I mostly agree. Where I have seen the most success if where I worked to be a better man for myself, not for her. Perhaps because it was real, versus a trick. I mostly want to be a better man for myself, but a small part wants to be that because my wife deserves that kind of husband.
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