Some equate this confidence to arrogance, but the elders among my grandmother's people who taught us what it means to be a man always said that it was really about letting go of your fears as a man.
Yes I like this. Too many men suppress who they really are. This is wise.
I can honestly say that the changes in my life that I talk about have been much more of this nature than anything else. I mean the fact that I have a desire to do something and can visualize it so clearly it is less about being something I am not and more about letting something I already posess come to the surface and allow to expand. So when I say to myself "I can do that", it is because I know I have that in me. I've got this. It comes from our center.
So this makes sense when we tell folks to work on themselves. They are suppressing aspects of themselves they fear releasing.
Sp often we see guys say they fear being called jealous, controlling or insecure. They feel guilty for taking steps to protect themselves and their family.
Yes I like this. Too many men suppress who they really are. This is wise.
I can honestly say that the changes in my life that I talk about have been much more of this nature than anything else. I mean the fact that I have a desire to do something and can visualize it so clearly it is less about being something I am not and more about letting something I already posess come to the surface and allow to expand. So when I say to myself "I can do that", it is because I know I have that in me. I've got this. It comes from our center.
So this makes sense when we tell folks to work on themselves. They are suppressing aspects of themselves they fear releasing.
Sp often we see guys say they fear being called jealous, controlling or insecure. They feel guilty for taking steps to protect themselves and their family.
Am I misinterpreting here?
That's exactly what I was referring to.
When you see some of the women on this site talk about their husbands and their positive traits, I really like some of the comments I hear, because it shows what they really value in their husband. We may or may not see them as "alpha" traits, but I think a lot of this is based on definitions of these terms by people who are trying to make the whole alpha discussion into something that can be sold, or taught. In reality, many of these positive traits are the result of their husband finding inner peace with who he is, and confidence. He no longer fears that his personality will make him be labelled somehow. This same inner strength of character is really what I think "alpha" is all about.
What do we think of when we talk about "players" and "games" in the modern context? Many people will instinctively think of some hidden secrets to "becoming more alpha". Think about how life really plays out, though. Imagine an old-fashioned social setting where young, available women are sitting at a table, and young, available men are trying to decide how to introduce themselves. More often than not, it boils down to many of the men subconsciously trying to figure out how to approach them without feeling stupid, or being rejected (notice the fear here?). Odds are that they've put some thought into tips and tricks, and most of them think that the perfect recipe will win over a woman more often than not. Maybe one or two of them fancies himself an alpha, and has what he thinks to be the perfect formula. God forbid that woman on the receiving end of his formula actually reject him, though, because that would be his worst nightmare (fear again).
You have one guy who instinctively sees these games as a waste of time, or a beta adventure. He figures that the worst thing that can happen is to be rejected, which will not really bother him, but he really wants to get to know one of them in particular. He also knows that about 90% of the other guys are quaking in their boots, and if he doesn't insult or disrespect said woman, she's probably a decent human being who will give a guy a break if he doesn't play games or try to deceive her. Plus, he thinks that he has something to offer if a person will give him a chance. He decides to be real, a person of character. Whether this guy is mild-mannered or expressive, odds are better that this person will attract someone.
Our popular web-based theory is that the alphas are the gamers. The ones trying to put one over on a woman. But I really think that there are a few core characteristics that are broadly appealing, and found in some mild-mannered or expressive, outgoing people. If you are talking about actual results in dating or marriage, they are alpha.
Honey Badger is actually a pristine example of nothing BUT alpha. Honey badger don't care, honey badger don't give a sh!t ...
Excellent reference, Trenton. That and I laugh every ... single ... time I watch that video.
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Originally Posted by Trenton
I'm thinking there is a more difficult, yet sustainable answer than the dude is alpha and so gets hot chicks or is <fill in the blank> and needs to do such and such. Unfortunately, nobody likes the second choice. Duh.
I'm not picking on you, especially when I know you are posting from the heart. I know you don't like it. But that's kind of the key. It doesn't have to be difficult. It's like chess. The rules are straightforward. How the rules are applied can be vastly complex or very, very easy. Just all depends upon who you are playing with.
I think that is ideal. In most cases myself I tone it way back these days. I actually try and see if people will take advantage of me then. If so I know I cannot trust them.
You have ilungu
Ilunga
Tshiluba (Southwest Congo) – a person “who is ready to forgive and forget any first abuse, tolerate it the second time, but never forgive nor tolerate on the third offense.”
Ilunga
Tshiluba (Southwest Congo) – a person “who is ready to forgive and forget any first abuse, tolerate it the second time, but never forgive nor tolerate on the third offense.”
It is more likely that I will have zero or low tolerance the first time for someone who screws me over because they think they can get away with it. I will give someone rope to see what they do with it. I am saying that true trust is earned with me. So I operate this way with "important" relationships. In general I am willing to risk a little bit to find out if a person can be trusted. That does not mean they will be forgiven. I do not fabricate a situations as much as use real circumstances of lower risk to determine the persons character.
Context matters here. I am capable of forgiving certain things under certain circumstances and maybe even as you say. But not about "important" things. I can forgive something I see as inappropriate if it is corrected soon enough but not unfaithfulness. I have zero tolerance for that. Lying is being unfaithful for example.
I am not religious but :
"For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48
The above is part of my philosophy.
I may have been the way as you suggested when I was say 20. I was much more naive then.
Context matters here. I am capable of forgiving certain things under certain circumstances and maybe even as you say. But not about "important" things. I can forgive something I see as inappropriate if it is corrected soon enough but not unfaithfulness. I have zero tolerance for that. Lying is being unfaithful for example.
Interesting. In those situations, I can forgive them (quite easily in fact) but yet will never trust them or let them in again. I had a former friend do something I considered untrustworthy back in college. At the time, we have been great friends for seven years. I forgave him pretty quickly. While I still talk to him from time to time, I will never let him be close again. In one sense, I will never give him the power to hurt me by being untrustworthy again.
Interesting. In those situations, I can forgive them (quite easily in fact) but yet will never trust them or let them in again. I had a former friend do something I considered untrustworthy back in college. At the time, we have been great friends for seven years. I forgave him pretty quickly. While I still talk to him from time to time, I will never let him be close again. In one sense, I will never give him the power to hurt me by being untrustworthy again.
I would not say that my position on this is different. The bottomline is that they have lost my trust and like you would not give them another chance at me.
Honey Badger is actually a pristine example of nothing BUT alpha. Honey badger don't care, honey badger don't give a sh!t ...
Excellent reference, Trenton. That and I laugh every ... single ... time I watch that video.
I'm not picking on you, especially when I know you are posting from the heart. I know you don't like it. But that's kind of the key. It doesn't have to be difficult. It's like chess. The rules are straightforward. How the rules are applied can be vastly complex or very, very easy. Just all depends upon who you are playing with.
I was telling my kids how funny the honey badger pistachio commercial was to me and they showed me that you tube video. I've watched it 20 times and I still think it's the funniest thing I've seen ever. I'm so going to be the honey badger with the cobra in her mouth for Halloween.
Ever see War Games? All this crap is nuclear war...it's not a nice game of chess.
Halien said: He figures that the worst thing that can happen is to be rejected, which will not really bother him, but he really wants to get to know one of them in particular. He also knows that about 90% of the other guys are quaking in their boots, and if he doesn't insult or disrespect said woman, she's probably a decent human being who will give a guy a break if he doesn't play games or try to deceive her. Plus, he thinks that he has something to offer if a person will give him a chance. He decides to be real, a person of character. Whether this guy is mild-mannered or expressive, odds are better that this person will attract someone.
This WAS my husband to the full extent at the age of 18... the only thing that doesn't fit is.... that it wouldn't bother him if he was rejected, it would have sliced like a knife.... but he put himself out there & did it anyway, just days after meeting me...asking me to be his girl.
I look at character & realness if I gleem it... I never liked those with a hint of a "line". I gave him a chance. I agree with you, Gamers have destructed the Good in the term "Alpha". I am having a very hard time overcoming it myself.. when I hear the term, and when I use it, I happen to look down on it - I think Beta needs redeemed -even more so - in comparison to Alpha being redeemed.
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Some posters will say that they, or their spouse, may be pretty beta, but I'm seeing a lot of alpha going on instead. We've just allowed those who sell "hidden secrets on how to win women" to steal the definition of what alpha really is, and apply it to their secret techniques
I think I am the most vocal poster here who goes on about a my "Beta" husband... I'm always beating this drum...
This thread - which you contributed too Halien - gives an example of how Beta is slaughtered by the Gamers (which is WHY I get so irritated) ..... then Atholk comes in to save the day with the TRUE meanings...
This WAS my husband to the full extent at the age of 18... the only thing that doesn't fit is.... that it wouldn't bother him if he was rejected, it would have sliced like a knife.... but he put himself out there & did it anyway, just days after meeting me...asking me to be his girl.
I look at character & realness if I gleem it... I never liked those with a hint of a "line". I gave him a chance. I agree with you, Gamers have destructed the Good in the term "Alpha". I am having a very hard time overcoming it myself.. when I hear the term, and when I use it, I happen to look down on it - I think Beta needs redeemed -even more so - in comparison to Alpha being redeemed.
I think I am the most vocal poster here who goes on about a my "Beta" husband... I'm always beating this drum...
There are a number of things from my past that I continue to work through, and being on this site helps me to challenge my own assumptions about the issues. Mostly it is things from the past that are just too personal, related to tragedy in the past. I've been giving the subject a lot of thought lately. I use some of the traits of alpha-type behaviors to deflect, and avoid having to open up and tell my wife and others about some of the tragedy that took my oldest brother away from us when I was young, and how I was abandoned by my parents for a time, even though it didn't involve me. My wife said to the marital counselor that everyone in my circle of friends and family knows me, but nobody knows me. But when my wife is struggling with deep depression and insecurities, responding boldly, with confidence is so much easier than admitting that I'm lost and struggling with what to do. She didn't want to see that side. Couldn't handle it. Through this thought process, it changes my assumptions about other issues that we men may face.
What I'm getting at is that many of these web-based theories of being alpha, and the harshly negative vibe that it instills, keeps us from really talking about a few key characteristics that could otherwise be discussed without shame or embarrassment from those with milder personalities. We could talk about what character, self-confidence and letting go of fears can make people truly alpha, if that makes any sense. You wouldn't feel like you had to defend your husband, because there are some genuine alpha characteristics in him. When the rubber meets the road, people will follow him, because he is sure of himself, while others are not. But on the flip side, it takes real courage to look at your limitations honestly, instead of deflecting.
According to Darwin and Jesus, the meek shall inherit the earth because the Alphas are busily slaughtering each other, getting eaten by bears or getting accidentally killed redneck style.
Halien...pfft...you're not a honey badger. Why would you want to be? You're a Mod!
I might not be, but there is no way I'm showing that video to my wife!!!! When she tells everyone that I'm like a force of nature sometimes, its not even remotely a compliment. She's talking about the dust devils that leave a trail of debris behind, like the time that some young guys from a church youth outreach down the street tried to break in to my shop one night, then ran from me, and I interrupted the church services in my shorts and t- shirt to confront them. ... but then again, our entire DVD collection of romantic comedies are mine...
There are a number of things from my past that I continue to work through, and being on this site helps me to challenge my own assumptions about the issues. Mostly it is things from the past that are just too personal, related to tragedy in the past. I've been giving the subject a lot of thought lately. I use some of the traits of alpha-type behaviors to deflect, and avoid having to open up and tell my wife and others about some of the tragedy that took my oldest brother away from us when I was young, and how I was abandoned by my parents for a time, even though it didn't involve me. My wife said to the marital counselor that everyone in my circle of friends and family knows me, but nobody knows me.
I love your observations ...such genuinenss in admitting these things.
So you struggle with showing or expressing some of these things about your past with others... not that you need to go there, but you would choose silence over sharing....this is just safer /easier, and you can pull it off....let others believe you grew up like everyone else .....why take a chance on trudging through the mudd blackening how others may "view" you... or in this case, your upbringing.
I've found in life, if/when it may help another feel more "understood"- relatable... bringing yourself down to their human level in something THEY are struggling with....THIS is when "opening up" serves a greater purpose...to share these peices of our past, to let go of shame for a better good......by doing this, it helps us overcome these fears little by little ....and helps the other person feel less alone....that "damn...he really does understand, cause he has been there!!". This can do wonders for other people, lifting them from the pits even. By feeling ashamed of our past, it has us "bound"...in reality. These things are not our fault as children....we know this, we had no control.
But of course there is no reason to be so forward with others if it isn't relatable -or has a higher purpose in going there.
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But when my wife is struggling with deep depression and insecurities, responding boldly, with confidence is so much easier than admitting that I'm lost and struggling with what to do. She didn't want to see that side. Couldn't handle it. Through this thought process, it changes my assumptions about other issues that we men may face.
She needs to feel your strength then, a man should be this way..... what you say here is so very normal... most won't admit these things outright... but they still FEEL them inside.
...I would personally even question those who say they never feel like what you just described ..... that makes them "untouchable" -nearing some "super Hero status" -I don't believe anyone is like this... and if they are.... I would think they are lacking somehow in others emotions that make them beautiful. We all have some fears, even insecurities. It's not a plague, or pathetic weaknesses...it's just being human.
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What I'm getting at is that many of these web-based theories of being alpha, and the harshly negative vibe that it instills, keeps us from really talking about a few key characteristics that could otherwise be discussed without shame or embarrassment from those with milder personalities. We could talk about what character, self-confidence and letting go of fears can make people truly alpha, if that makes any sense.
My husband has a mild personality.... true....
I want to compare my husband with his younger brother...
If any seen the 2 of them, observed their lives....one would say his younger brother is MORE ALPHA , he oozes confidence...(on the outside)...here is why... he is a chick magnent, variety of women over the years, he is a Boss at work, decent amount of guy friends, people remember him, he jokes alot.....he goes on about how he will put people in their place if they mess with him, doesn't take no BS, family members enjoy his stories, he is FUN.
What others don't see is this ... If family members want to hear about something in his life, we have to be careful not to ask too much or it is none of our business (Mr Secretive)... he broke up with his last GF by an email after 6 yrs, no explanation...left her completely hanging.....she wrote a letter to all of the family members how she wouldn't be there for X-mas, doesn't know what is going on with him, worried about him...she was devestated- she knew he wouldn't tell us anything. I thought to myself... what a COWARD. My husband would never in a million years treat someone like that...even if they dated for 3 months!
He is not secretive, he can admit his shortcomings to anyone and laugh right along with them. He wouldn't want to be a boss, he doesn't puff himself up. Those guys at work like to chew on him, even saying how I wear the pants (sometimes), he'll laugh right along with them, he knows he is well liked , those guys even fight over wanting to work with him.
SO yeah, outward appearances mean very little. Kinda one of the points I like to slam from time to time. I find those who can freely open up about the vulnerable --are those who are most in touch with themselves....but yet still firm in their convictions & not hustling for anyone's acceptance. This would be REALNESS defined to me. Whether is it Alpha or Beta I guess I don't care.
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You wouldn't feel like you had to defend your husband, because there are some genuine alpha characteristics in him. When the rubber meets the road, people will follow him, because he is sure of himself, while others are not. But on the flip side, it takes real courage to look at your limitations honestly, instead of deflecting.
My husband is definitely looked up to as a man who has his life together, a stable family, even our teen sons -there is no trouble or turmoil to speak of....he can be counted on for anything he speaks out of his mouth. He is trusted by all , he will do what is right to correct a wrong so he has a clear conscience. All of this is honorable and well... I assume Alpha... but this is BETA TOO !!!
For me, it is all about being Genuine , honest , Real ...not putting on aires, and of course standing your ground -when you feel you are being mistreated. In some of those instances, he would choose to pick his battles and do what will give the best outcome in the long haul though. Sometimes it is better to keep the mouth shut.
Something his wife needs to learn a little more of ! Ha ha
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Re: Alpha, Betas, Delta, etc 
