Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelygirl
What a stupid, childish b!tch your wife is!
Sorry.
Waking you up for a ridiculous reason, leaving the house without saying anything, being mad at you and scream for no reason.. and other annoying things she does at you..
Who is she to treat you like that and walk over you??
I hate women who don't respect their devoted husbands.
I'm sorry to hear you're going through this.
Yes, in essence the guy’s dealing with the equivalent of a spunky six year old girl yet to be taught manners, propriety and decorum or a truly grudge holding, chip on their shoulder hate the world victim personality teenager.
Unfortunately unlike the father of such a daughter, as her husband he has absolutely no way of punishing her for her seriously abusive behaviour. Unless he withdraws into a 180 and stops providing the services he provides. But that’s seriously difficult because to stop paying the bills, paying for food etc. has all sorts of unwanted consequences. But at the very least going into the 180 will protect him from his wife’s emotionally abusive behaviour.
To protect himself I’d recommend he goes into the 180 and get a good understanding of, grip on and assertion of personal boundaries. Once he’s walking that path he will calm down internally such that peace and comfort enters inside of him and he will see things for what they really are perhaps for the very first time.
Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM11363
Mike,
You are doing awesome. This stuff takes practice. I want you to think about something that toes back to what deejo, afeh, and others have mentioned.
When your wife does something hostile, like leave without a word, and then you leave and she gets hostile remind yourself of this:
She is using the "I am mad at you BECAUSE you are mad at me"
You aren't allowed to get mad or if you do, you are not allowed to let it impact her.
Next time she is stomping around, IGNORE her. And when she finally engages, she will likely ask you to do something for her. Just smile and say, "I don't understand why you thought it was ok to leave without a note". And go back to ignoring her. Stop trying to make peace when she is initiating hostility.
And if she repeats her demand or request, just reply with "we can discuss your request after I understand why you thought it was ok to ..."
The benefit of this is you stop doing nice things until she apologizes or explains to your satisfaction.
If you get a non-apology like "you are being to sensitive" just smile and say "why are you saying that, when you seem to be the angry person at the moment".
Or "hmmm I am still confused why you though that was ok".
When she is angry and you stay calm, she is wearing herself out and you are not. THAT is the main determinant in a fair outcome.
Posted via Mobile Device
Yes. He has to stop REACTING. But to stop reacting he has to first stop being AFFECTED!
Mike you have seriously crap personal boundaries. If you had seriously good personal boundaries your wife’s abusive behaviour would fly right over your head as though in an airliner at 33,000 ft.
She just would not get right inside to the deepest parts of you like she is so easily doing.
Do you comprehend what I am saying?
You HAVE to stop letting her get inside of you. That is under YOUR CONTROL. It is not under anybody else’s control!
If you had good personal boundaries you would be TOTALLY UNAFFECTED by your wife’s abusive behaviour.
Contemplate that for a while. Go outside look up into the sky and think on your wife’s manipulative and abusive behaviour flying right over your head up there in the clouds.
Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
I think a lot of these things are to do with bonding. I think us men are at times as much bonded by our love for our wife and our commitment to her as we are by her abusive and pain causing behaviour.
It is I think that “Treat them mean to keep them keen” thing. We love them AND they treat us mean. The combination results in a massively magnetic attraction. Far more powerful than “just” love. Break one of the attractions, either our love attraction or “mean” attraction and the WHOLE RELATIONSHIP CHANGES!
So if Mike ever does read Awareness and establishes good personal boundaries such that he is TOTALLY DETACHED emotionally from his wife’s abusive behaviour he will perhaps see his wife for the type of woman she is for the very first time.
And if he ever does that he will come to know deep inside of him that it is not he that needs to change for them to remain married together but his wife!
That, if it ever happens, will be the time when the truly big changes will take place in Mike’s life.
Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
Mike, think on for a while, contemplate, that your wife knows EXACTLY what she is doing and she is FULLY CONSCIOUS of it.
You are not feeling hurt, angry, sad, happy, joyful with her by some kind of freak ACCIDENT or sub conscious behaviour on the part of your wife.
Those emotions come to you via deliberate and conscious manipulation by your wife. (You stop them happening or at least from being so deeply affected by them with personal boundaries).
This EMOTIONAL MANIPULATION is for a lot of us a very difficult concept to comprehend or even believe that it actually exists. Most especially if you have never once in your life even THOUGHT about causing another pain let alone actually planning and carrying those thoughts out.
Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
The ART of NEGOTIATION!
Mike, for example your wife wants you to change the way you laugh. What a wonderful opportunity you have to enter into negotiation with her.
Something like “Ok. You’d like me to change the way I laugh. I take all your requests like this seriously. What else would you like me to change about myself?”. Then write down the changes she’d like you to make.
The next step is where the negotiation begins. “There are things I’d like you to change about your self. Are you willing to listen and make those changes?”.
See where this is going?
I actually think the above is how things should be in a marriage. Obviously if the changes requested mean a totally different character, personality then there’s no hope. But I think some changes are all part of love and all part of growing better together.
Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
Welcome. I understand where you are coming from. I started reading "no more mr. nice guy" last Friday. I was very very shocked to discover the truth about my behavior and what I was doing to the relationship. Almost everything he said about being a nice guy, applied to me. I would say follow the activities in the book and start to keep a journal. Read back and see what you did and what her responses have been. I also got the MMSL and will read that after reading NMMNG a second time. Make sure you have someone you can contact. I have my therapist who is really good and a childhood friend. This will not be an easy process, however the fruits will be worth it. Stay strong.
Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelygirl
What a stupid, childish b!tch your wife is!
Sorry.
Waking you up for a ridiculous reason, leaving the house without saying anything, being mad at you and scream for no reason.. and other annoying things she does at you..
Who is she to treat you like that and walk over you??
I hate women who don't respect their devoted husbands.
I'm sorry to hear you're going through this.
Lovelygirl...
I appreciate your response, for the support as to her walking all over me...But I let that happen and she needs to learn I won't let it happen any more. Although she may be "B!tchy" I have realized that it stems from my ignorance of how to deal with her. I don't think my wife is a b!tch, I truly know she is a wonderful, caring, and loving woman...I have seen that before from her and hope to again. And she is an amazing mother even when she doesn't feel that way. I just need to set the ground rules and then follow them for myself and try and train her to respect my boundaries and me. Thanks again for the support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deejo
If you have not already ... take a gander at this thread:
Your wife sounds like a pro when it comes to fitness tests.
Deejo...
You are dead nuts right on this one...she is a pro, and I have unfortunately given her all the practice she needed to become perfect at it. I have been reading that thread and am finding a lot of nuggets of wisdom to hold on to...Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEM11363
When your wife does something hostile, like leave without a word, and then you leave and she gets hostile remind yourself of this:
She is using the "I am mad at you BECAUSE you are mad at me"
You aren't allowed to get mad or if you do, you are not allowed to let it impact her.
Next time she is stomping around, IGNORE her. And when she finally engages, she will likely ask you to do something for her. Just smile and say, "I don't understand why you thought it was ok to leave without a note". And go back to ignoring her. Stop trying to make peace when she is initiating hostility.
And if she repeats her demand or request, just reply with "we can discuss your request after I understand why you thought it was ok to ..."
The benefit of this is you stop doing nice things until she apologizes or explains to your satisfaction.
If you get a non-apology like "you are being to sensitive" just smile and say "why are you saying that, when you seem to be the angry person at the moment".
Or "hmmm I am still confused why you though that was ok".
When she is angry and you stay calm, she is wearing herself out and you are not. THAT is the main determinant in a fair outcome.
Posted via Mobile Device
MEM...
It took all of my will power yesterday to NOT ask what is wrong...As I said in the earlier post...I KNOW what is wrong...I just continued to act as if nothing was wrong, and ignored her...she gave me the silent treatment all night, and after finishing folding the last of the laundry, while I was in the bathroom, she just went to bed...No Goodnight. One of the things I do typically is bring the folded clothes basket up after she is done...I LEFT IT WHERE IT WAS...and then this morning I would normally put the washed dishes away...and I did the same, LEFT THEM THERE... I got myself out the door and did nothing for her. I wasn't mean or loud...just made my lunch as usual...I even took out the trash because it was full. But nothing more...
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheBedIMade
Let me preface this with I give horrible advice and may be too alpha for my own good.
In your situation I would issue a safe word, with little to no discussion. Today.
I would take her tomorrow.
It may be amazingly counter intuitive but you go until you hear that word. You know what you want to do, do it. Another horrible insight into my life that nobody really needs to know is that I dont proceed until she's had an o. Can never stress that enough.
Thank god for Internet anonymity...
In the past this has greatly changed the dynamics in my relationships. Posted via Mobile Device
InTheBedIMade...
That definitely seems Alpha to me...I would love to just say and do that, but my wife has some emotional issues from her past and would feel violated if I just forced myself on her...even with a safe word...In addition she has a hard time letting go and having the "O" so if I waited for that to happen each time I would never be satisfied...LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Moon
You're doing a good job of being mindful of her slights, but I feel like you're doing a little too much explaining in some situations. I would advise you to disengage more and focus on yourself, while not giving a damn about what she says or how she reacts. Even challenge her a little.
Blue Moon...
Can't fault your logic here...I still am new at this and I know I tend to try and explain too much...And I am trying to work on that. I will try and pair it down to simple statements and walk away...I know I missed a great opportunity yesterday to set my wife on edge when she yelled about me doing it wrong when I brought my duaghter through the house to the front...20/20 lets me see that I should have simply repeated her yell in the tone and same words and then simply given her a look and walked away...I just have to keep looking for these moments and remembering those steps...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFEH
Yes. He has to stop REACTING. But to stop reacting he has to first stop being AFFECTED!
Mike you have seriously crap personal boundaries. If you had seriously good personal boundaries your wife’s abusive behaviour would fly right over your head as though in an airliner at 33,000 ft.
She just would not get right inside to the deepest parts of you like she is so easily doing.
Do you comprehend what I am saying?
You HAVE to stop letting her get inside of you. That is under YOUR CONTROL. It is not under anybody else’s control!
If you had good personal boundaries you would be TOTALLY UNAFFECTED by your wife’s abusive behaviour.
Contemplate that for a while. Go outside look up into the sky and think on your wife’s manipulative and abusive behaviour flying right over your head up there in the clouds.
AFEH...
THANK YOU...for not sugar coating it...You are 100% RIGHT!!!! I have the worst boundaries going...and your right to call me out on it...I still REACT to what she does instead of letting it go...It's incredibly hard NOT to get pissed off about it..but I was able to calm myself yesterday and kinda laugh about it after...I looked at this as a spoiled little girl getting mad because she didn't like what I said when I called her on waking me up...and now this silent treatment and anger is just more of her blaming me for how I RE-ACTED to what SHE DID...I accept your sage wisdom with the intent there is to better me behind it. Thanks again!
Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
Part of being a "man" is realizing that you have to make the change from within. I have no problem with you seeking advice on how to do that, but try to remember to be true to yourself as well. You may just find you change your voice, laughing habits and everything else and she'll find another excuse to be "unnatracted" to you.
Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinnister
Part of being a "man" is realizing that you have to make the change from within. I have no problem with you seeking advice on how to do that, but try to remember to be true to yourself as well. You may just find you change your voice, laughing habits and everything else and she'll find another excuse to be "unnatracted" to you.
That's the reality.
I think that part of the solution is for her to come to realize that she also has to work to maintain the mutual attraction. Frankly, her approach to dealing with her husband, Mike, is incredibly unnattractive. One she begins to accept that something has changed, I think she needs to learn that her passive aggressive behaviors will not only not be tolerated, but need to be replace with affirming behaviors if she is to be accepted beyond just general courtesy.
Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad
Mike,
Many times we associate boundaries with hostility.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
You can enforce boundaries dispassionately.
Conrad...
This is a great warning for me...Thanks again...learning how to detach the emotional portion of confronting my wife is going to be one of the hardest things I have to do. I have been reacting in anger the way she wants for a long time...I have been trying to just remind myself to find this funny and find a way to repond with whit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinnister
Part of being a "man" is realizing that you have to make the change from within. I have no problem with you seeking advice on how to do that, but try to remember to be true to yourself as well. You may just find you change your voice, laughing habits and everything else and she'll find another excuse to be "unnatracted" to you.
That's the reality.
Sinnister...
Unfortunately I am all too aware of that possability...and have been tryinng to train my brain to accept that if this relationship is meant to be, it will be...and if not...like has been stated in numerous posts I have to be ready to lose it and use the knowledge I gain in the next phase of my life.
After her working over of me yesterday, today I'm at work and I get a text from my wife:
"There is hamburger for tonight I don't care how you cook it. Steak tips for Thursday"
To which I responded "K" That's it...and after I hit send I kicked myself for responding at all...I should have ignored it...But regardless...I will cook tonight (I usually do on Tuesday and Wednesday as my wife works til 8)...and I will continue to ignore the other things I would normally do...I will take care of our daughter and will ignore my wife and see what happens...
Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!!
Mike,
Excellent control.
The pace at which you have grasped all this is great. I live with a tigress and so have learned a style that is effective for me/us. Humor is always best to resolve conflicts as they happen. When that isn't possible there are some universally useful phrases when your partner is breaching boundaries.
My goal is never to be the "irresistable force".
IMO boundary enforcement is ALL ABOUT being the "immovable object" when need be. The difference between those two is huge.
In the former case I "tell you" what your behavior is. And then I try to "sell you" on why I believe that. But I cannot MAKE YOU buy anything. And by making myself salesman, I am totally vulnerable to you refusing to buy - regardless of your reasons. For example:
Husband: It was really rude when you...
Wife: I disagree
Husband: Long explanation of why it was really rude
Wife: That isn't what happened
Husband: Getting more agitated and less able to think logically AND ultimately more fatigued
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The immovable object:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The entire premise of this is that your spouse is approaching you. This doesn't work if you approach them. If you are a good H - very likely there is a long list of acts of service (that are discretionary - just like you mentioned above) that you can stop doing. And you SHOULD stop them if you are getting kicked. When asked to do something you don't sell - you "become" the buyer.
Example:
W: I need you to do "...xyz..."
H: (laughing and then pause and tilt your head in a "you have got to be kidding" way) Is that your idea of an apology
W: Pretending that there was no fight, there was no multi-day test of emotional endurance: "what?"
H: (big smile nice try (go back to what you were doing)
W: (louder - angrier) "I am getting kind of sick of this. So are you just not talking to me anymore"
H: (calm) "The next step is either you convince me that your behavior the other day was justified OR you apologize for it. Either is fine".
W: Glaring
H: RESISTING THE URGE TO ENGAGE IN NERVOUS TALKING - NOT SAYING ANYTHING
W: I don't understand what you think I did wrong
H: (refusing to sell his case - continues to ask questions - smiling in disbelief): Are you saying you really don't know why we haven't been talking for the last "hours/days"?
W: Angrily - "fine - don't help me"
Limit your interaction to questions when your W is being hostile/angry/combative. And accept that she is going to be VERY mad for a while until you rebalance things. She is not used to you standing up for yourself. This is like ripping off a giant band-aid. Best done as quickly as she can adjust to a fair balance.
You can let her initiate sex but don't let her tease you and not follow through. Do NOT let her do that, it is abusive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPDBlues
Lovelygirl...
I appreciate your response, for the support as to her walking all over me...But I let that happen and she needs to learn I won't let it happen any more. Although she may be "B!tchy" I have realized that it stems from my ignorance of how to deal with her. I don't think my wife is a b!tch, I truly know she is a wonderful, caring, and loving woman...I have seen that before from her and hope to again. And she is an amazing mother even when she doesn't feel that way. I just need to set the ground rules and then follow them for myself and try and train her to respect my boundaries and me. Thanks again for the support.
Deejo...
You are dead nuts right on this one...she is a pro, and I have unfortunately given her all the practice she needed to become perfect at it. I have been reading that thread and am finding a lot of nuggets of wisdom to hold on to...Thanks!
MEM...
It took all of my will power yesterday to NOT ask what is wrong...As I said in the earlier post...I KNOW what is wrong...I just continued to act as if nothing was wrong, and ignored her...she gave me the silent treatment all night, and after finishing folding the last of the laundry, while I was in the bathroom, she just went to bed...No Goodnight. One of the things I do typically is bring the folded clothes basket up after she is done...I LEFT IT WHERE IT WAS...and then this morning I would normally put the washed dishes away...and I did the same, LEFT THEM THERE... I got myself out the door and did nothing for her. I wasn't mean or loud...just made my lunch as usual...I even took out the trash because it was full. But nothing more...
InTheBedIMade...
That definitely seems Alpha to me...I would love to just say and do that, but my wife has some emotional issues from her past and would feel violated if I just forced myself on her...even with a safe word...In addition she has a hard time letting go and having the "O" so if I waited for that to happen each time I would never be satisfied...LOL
Blue Moon...
Can't fault your logic here...I still am new at this and I know I tend to try and explain too much...And I am trying to work on that. I will try and pair it down to simple statements and walk away...I know I missed a great opportunity yesterday to set my wife on edge when she yelled about me doing it wrong when I brought my duaghter through the house to the front...20/20 lets me see that I should have simply repeated her yell in the tone and same words and then simply given her a look and walked away...I just have to keep looking for these moments and remembering those steps...
AFEH...
THANK YOU...for not sugar coating it...You are 100% RIGHT!!!! I have the worst boundaries going...and your right to call me out on it...I still REACT to what she does instead of letting it go...It's incredibly hard NOT to get pissed off about it..but I was able to calm myself yesterday and kinda laugh about it after...I looked at this as a spoiled little girl getting mad because she didn't like what I said when I called her on waking me up...and now this silent treatment and anger is just more of her blaming me for how I RE-ACTED to what SHE DID...I accept your sage wisdom with the intent there is to better me behind it. Thanks again!
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Re: PLEASE!!! To Say I need HELP would be an Enourmous Understatemet!!! 
nice try (go back to what you were doing)
