MPDBlues

Hi, My name is Mike and I...NEED...HELP...I need to become the man I should be...and that I have never been!

I have just recently found this forum and have been reading through some of the posts from the past few years. Specifically "The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R" and just tonight I found another posting "Calling all MEN! I need your help"

I have known for a while but ignored it and only just woke up to realize in just a few days that I am in serious trouble in my Marriage, and I want to repair it.

My wife has lost all respect for me, is completely resentful of me, berates me over almost everything, belittles me, treats me like a child, and just recently told me that she finds me utterly unattractive. I realize this sounds horrible to say about her...but amazingly after just reading a few posts here...albeit from a while ago, I find I am largely to blame for it...I am the epitome of the "NICE GUY" and as far from MANNING UP as you can get. I know she loves me...sounds weird to say that but I see it in her eyes...but then there are times when she looks at me and I can see disgust.

She told me the other night with tears in her eyes that she finds me unattractive because of the way I laugh and giggle at times ( I do have a "higher" pitch and timber to my voice and laugh, no Barry White here, except first thing in the morning...lol), and although it's been the same since I met her, she told me it just keeps getting more and more grating when I do it, and she wishes that I would change it so that she would be more attracted to me, that she desperately WANTS to be attracted to me, because she loves me. But...I'm beginning to see that this is about WAY more than just my laugh...

After reading the 'Thermostat' post I was blown away by how it was as if MEM11363 was sitting in my house watching me and my wife interact on a daily basis... I am TOTALLY the 'HOT' and she is the 'COLD'. In just the last 2 days I have already put some of the things I read into effect, started "Cooling down", and plan on continuing to add everything I can( but it's hard to change so many bad habits...)

Today, based on hearing about it here, I bought the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy, by Robert Glover" and was shocked to see myself in the very first few pages. I hope that when I finish it I will be able to adapt my life and become more manly...

I was raised by mostly woman since I was 5...my parents got divorced and I had NO father figures in my life at all. I'm awash in disbelief at how quickly, literally 2 days, I have come to realize that I am not a man...I am a 6' tall 350lb mousy, girly, little boy. I am more than physically capable, pretty strong actually, a jack of all trades, mechanical, imaginative, musical, I go through all the motions of being a man. But I'm not really a MAN.

I come to all of you with the hope that I will be able to unburden myself of some things and that I will be able to learn how to become the kind of MAN that stands up for himself, has his own opinions and can stand toe to toe with a wife who will respect me and think of me as an equal once again and who will find me attractive again.

I don't know if they are still active members or not, but the people I was really impressed with were MEM11363, BigBadWolf, Deejo, and Conrad, I hope that someone out there will maybe know them, and that they are around still and will be able to help me with their insight, and more than a little manly advice.

I realize I sound desperate...and I am, because I have a beautiful wife and daughter that I want to take care of, and have in my life. But if I can't become the man my wife & daughter need, and that I WANT to be. I will lose myself and them...hope someone out there reads this and finds something worth saving.

Thanks! Mike

EleGirl

Welcome aboard... Sorry to hear what you are going through. Not being much of a male role model myself, I'm not sure if i can be much of a help. You need those guys you listed and others. They will be along help you as others will.

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morituri

Mike, you can PM those TAM members if you'd like to get their input.

__________________
"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." Robert A. Heinlein

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Bat signal on. Batmobile on it's way.

The Renegade

Mike, definitely contact those guys you have mentioned and do read through their past posts as well.

From my side, I'd recommend the following:

1) Stand yourself up in front of the mirror and say for one last time (for your entire life!): "I am not a man ... I am a 6' tall 350lb mousy, girly, little boy." Then turn yourself around 360 and say: "Today is the day when I became THE MAN. For my wife, for my daughter and for every other woman on this planet! They respect me, they admire me, they worship me." (you will instantly feel a different smile, look, posture, ... on yourself)
And even if it's hard to believe at first, keep re-inforcing THAT thought over the other. The games you play in your own head have enormous impact on your life.

2) Detach yourself for a moment from your family (mentally) and let go of any outcome. Focus completely on yourself and how you amp up your value as a guy. Start with your physical appearance. The way you dress, the way you walk and generally carry yourself, look people in the eyes, claim your physical space. Demonstrate physically that you are a man. Be ok with coming off a tad arrogantly. Most guys I come across underestimate the power of the way they physically appear. A lot of them can add up 2 points within an hour.
You will soon realize a difference in your confidence and by that also in your attitude. It will become easier then to "cool down" and to reestablish your boundaries (and do all those things written in the thermostat).
Don't do that for her, do it for yourself as a social animal in general (and, please, bite your tongue off before you ask her for advice on what you should wear or how you should look).

3) Together with it, let go of some of the seriousness in your relationship, which I assume is hanging in the air like heavy smoke. Take it on you to introduce more of a lighter side. Play, laugh, go through the internet and find some humorous stories, jokes, games. (This is not to become her clown, but to be more interesting.) Try to, intentionally, not get too close as a partner, but rather keep her at "arms length". Start playing and also show yourself from your sexy side. Girls do like that.

And, by the way, I congratulate you for realizing that your daughter needs you to be as much of a MAN as your wife does. I have a 4 year old myself and I know it's really easy letting yourself be taken advantage of by those kind of "women".

__________________
The 5 Keys to getting anything you want from your WIFE
The 5 Keys to getting anything you want from your MAN

Machiavelli

Another must read book/blog you need to get is "Married Man Sex Life". It's about how to increase your wife's attraction to you by playing up certain behaviors and reducing others. The blog is excellent and should be read, but you need to read the book ASAP.

Also, 6' 360#? That's going to be a body fat percentage of around 55-70%, even if you're genetically gifted. If you are genetically gifted, you need to be 200# @ 8% body fat. Look for a book/blog called "The Primal Solution". The food advice is fantastic, you'll be looking better and feeling better almost right away. Ignore his exercise advice, though.

The last book to get is "The New High Intensity Training" on Amazon. One of the best $13 you'll spend. Ignore his diet advice, though.

Google "lowering your speaking voice."

Halien

Well, its awkward to know that that those first among us who reply are not the ones that you are looking to for advice, but I've noticed that Deejo often replies more in the evening. You can PM some of them.

Look others will surely disagree, but considering your goal here, you have to realize that because your wife has been allowed to overstep some very basic boundaries of simple human respect for a spouse, this will not be an easy change. If your chosen plan is just focused on being distant and the lower temp one, she's still going to cross that boundary for quite a while.

Don't ever underestimate the power of calling out a person for each and every instance of crossing the boundary of respect, and making an issue of it each time, reminding them that you expect to be treated like you treat her. Invite her to leave the room until she can speak to you like a good wife treats a good husband. Me, I start out by making mountains of molehills, almost, which resets boundaries pretty quickly. She'll feel like she has suddenly landed on a foreign planet or something. When she "berates" you, you don't have to scream or argue. Never insult. You say that you WILL NOT be talked to like that. Use comedy, even. When she comments and says that your voice sounds like a girl, ask her if this is the part where you get to reply about how those pants "really" look on her bottom. For me, the key is to net let it get drawn out into an argument. Reply, reinforce boundaries, then ask her to come back when she can talk to you with respect. If she pursues you, tell her you will not talk to her until it can be a respectful discussion. Do it again, and again, and again.

The key here, is to force yourself to see her on the same level as you see yourself. Right now, it seems like you are looking upward, towards a superior. But you did not marry a superior. You married someone that you could respect, and who would respect you, in turn. She only walks over those boundaries because it is safe to do so.

MPDBlues

Thanks for the responses and welcomes...And the assist on the info and Bat signal...lol

TheRenegade...

I will try the mirror moment today and see how I feel...I mean, really think about it for a change, not just say the words. I have already begun the process of making myself feel and look better...and I do realize that a lot of the changes necessary to make this work will be on my end...I don't have any false preconception that my wife will be making any drastic changes until she starts to address her OWN issues. And your right I definitely need to amp up on the humor and lighter side of me...she always responded really well to my humor when we dated and first got married and then through the years she finds less and less things fun or funny from me. I will take that advice about finding humorous things online and trying to slide them into conversation...Not crow-barring them in.

Machiavelli...

I realize what your thinking..."Dude let himself go BIG TIME...that's why she doesn't find him attractive". Seeing this from just the first statement I would draw the same conclusion. And although you are right about genetics...I got the worst possible draw on that one...I am actually halfway to my Goal weight of 250lbs...See, I started losing weight about a year ago, and have lost 100lbs! I was heavy when I met my wife and just got heavier...although currently I am about 25lbs less than I was the day we got married. Fitness advice, although not really what I'm here for at the moment, will STILL be greatly appreciated and I will look into that book you mentioned, as well as Googling "trying to lower the register of my voice". Thanks!

Halien...

No reason to feel awkward...I only mentioned them by name because they are the first of what I hope will be a long line of people like yourself, willing to help me through this. I'm not one for asking for help and never thought I would be on a forum for advice, but so many of the posts I read were just so dead on, kind, helpful, and understanding, and hit so close to home, that for the first time I saw that 'asking' for help in this instance WAS the MANLY thing to do. I welcome any advice and opinions that you and many others feel might help.

Your dead on with the boundary issue here...there are none. I want to call foul and be all, "why does she do this to me", but like I said in just a few days of reading this forum and starting the No More Mr. Nice Guy book, I, as a MAN, have to blame myself because if I don't SET boundaries, how will she know that they are there. But here is the problem...I REALLY need the examples and knowledge in order to see how to address these issues without being a whiny little boy.

I'll give you 2 examples of things I think I failed at just last night...

EXAMPLE 1:
My wife and daughter were out doing errands after work last night...I came home and she had cooked a gravy, and asked me to put water on for pasta...no biggie, I helped out. Then after dinner I helped clean up, I feel as a husband, and a father, I should set a good example, by putting in some effort on that side of things. As I was cleaning the table, my wife kept moving an empty pitcher around the table...closer and closer to me (she makes her own Ice-t in it) Earlier this week I had filled it for her without being asked to (being the NICE GUY pleaser before coming here, she did say thanks)...I kept telling myself "don't fill it, wait to be asked to", we were having some light conversation as we folded a few clothes together (she does all the laundry, it's not wrong of me to fold my own socks and underwear in my book) and before I knew what my mouth was doing I heard:

ME "would you like me to fill that for you?"
HER "Sure"
ME "two quarts?
HER "yes 2...no 3 this time"
(finished filling it and put it on the counter away from the folded clothes...last thing I wanted was to spill it on the dry clothes (another Girly moment, *cringe*)
HER..." " Yup nothing...no thank you, and I could physically see her cool off, the conversation died and I left the room...

I failed a test, but this time I recognized it...albeit after the fact. Well maybe before too and yet I still failed it. I made the classic "hotter" partner mistake and tried to please her and get some acceptance from her.

Example 2:
When I got home last night it was hot as hell in the house so I opened a bunch of windows and the back door to the deck which has a big screen in it to let in the breeze.

My wife, after having cooled down on me, sat playing computer games instead of connecting with me and watching some TV together...(distance because I failed the earlier test, I'm sure) she gets up and brings her glass into the kitchen:

HER "Want to close the back door?"
ME "Sure, go ahead"
HER "No...I mean are you gonna close the door, I think it's been open long enough, and it's not really helping any, I don't know why you even left it open"
ME "because it was hot in here" (trying like hell to keep from snapping) She then walks back into the living room, where I am sitting on the couch, at the opposite end of the house from the door, that just a moment ago she was within a few steps of.
ME "You know you were in the kitchen, you could have simply closed the door yourself"
HER" why should I, I didn't open it?"
ME " Well...because I am sitting down and you were in the kitchen and the kinder thing would have been to close the door"
HER (nothing for a moment, then coldly) "I'm going to bed, Goodnight"
ME (with very little love but still upbeat as if nothings wrong) "...Goodnight"

Now...let the picking apart begin...and don't hold back!!! I have a thick skin after all these years and want to hear the TRUTH...as well as hear how I should have done things differently in order to effect a better outcome. Show me how to set those boundaries and how to respond correctly so that she sees a MAN telling her "that is not how you will talk/act toward me" not a little boy that she can walk over anymore.

I know I am running on and on, and I probably will for a while, I won't apologize for that because I need to get this out and find the answers before I explode and cause more damage then good. Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from any and all of you whether good or bad.

Mike

Stonewall

do a 180

The Renegade

Mike, I feel you doing big steps and all the stuff you're reading and learning now will pay off.

Commenting on your examples (please keep in mind that's an opinion from an outsider who does not necessarily know all the inside information in your family, but I guess you can judge that right.)

Example 1)
I would have probably not asked (believe it will feel like sitting on a hot stone for you when the situation comes up again, but just don't). I would have maybe kept talking and, as if it would be an unconscious move, would simply have moved that pitcher step by step back to her.

In case you asked already, after she says "Sure" you'll ask for something much bigger in return. Normally I'd recommend something sexual, presented in a lighthearted, playful way. Maybe not possible when your daughter is on the same table, so pick something else. There's always something.

It will help, by the way, to sit down for a moment and collect some 4 or 5 things together in your head so that you are prepared when the situation comes up again next time.

If you get a deal, there's no harm in getting her that jar filled up again. If you don't she'll understand she'll have to get it herself.

Example 2)
Latest at the point where she says "Why should I, I didn't open it." I would probably have said "Alright, then." without moving myself an inch. I'd later close it whenever it fits to me.

Man, others might do other things. What I just mentioned works for me. My wife and me have a fantastic relationship. High on trust, high on sex, ... . Sometimes we still fight to extremes, but then I'm doing exactly those kind of things and don't back down, no matter what. But she learned to understand my power in those situations and eventually loves me more for it because this is where she finds her unconditional trust in me (passing the tests).

And if she goes to her room then, bursts out in tears and gives you all kinds of animal names and blames you for the first and second world war - that's really a good sign.

__________________
The 5 Keys to getting anything you want from your WIFE
The 5 Keys to getting anything you want from your MAN

Halien

After the door, this his how you should have responded, in my opinion:

HER" why should I, I didn't open it?" (referring to the door)

YOU (the new you) "So, let me get this straight, in what you are saying that our relationship should be like. Since you drink the tea, and it is your tea pitcher, you are telling me that I should never, ever fill your tea pitcher for you again, or do something nice for you, even though you are my wife?"

HER "What does the tea have to do with it?"

YOU "It has everything to do with it. If you stoop to immature passive aggressive behavior towards me, I will not reward that behavior by trying to make you happy."

--- I'm not recommended tit-for-tat. Don't get angry, or stoop to her level. I do believe that if you put her on the spot, or deflect in some of the humorous ways that MEM recommends in other posts, she'll start paying attention to the difference in how she treats you, in comparison to how she expects to be treated. You don't have to get stung but a few random times to start thinking about what you are doing, and how hurtful it may be.

MPDBlues

Stonewall...

I'm still unsure as to that reference, I haven't found the post where it comes from. If there is one...could you provide a link to that info?



Example1:

Surprisingly I had started with just that, I moved it off of the table when I was wiping up the crumbs from my daughter, and then I put it back closer to her...I actually think I moved it twice toward her...then the old me shoved his foot in my mouth...
I didn't even think of the idea, after the fact, of asking what I would get in return...I think it would definitely have been a bad time to ask about sex as I am trying like hell to stop saying ILY and Ask for sex...the whole Thermostat thing of the 'hot' partner cooling down. I have been pretty good about it for a few days now, but have just begun the process...only say it if she does and temper the response as the post recommended. etc...

Example 2:

With the exception of responding on why SHE should have (which I now know is NOT what I should have done 20/20 and all) I did just that...When she said goodnight, I just went right back to watching TV and didn't close it until later after I was in that room and posting last night...

MPDBlues

Wow Halien...it's so brilliant in it's simplicity, But my mind never even connected the 2 separate things like you did, even after I posted them last night...THIS is why I need the help...If I could have said that she might have been pissy about it or gotten mad but I would been completely justified and right to say it just that way...Why doesn't my brain work like that?

Conrad

"When I left it open, I was hoping to watch your beautiful ass jiggle as you walked across the room to close it"

Followed by a playful grin

AFEH

Set yourself a plan to lose 150Ibs within a set timescale and do it! You will greatly increase your impulse control and delayed gratification and by those means your self-esteem and self-respect. Once you have healthy levels of esteem and respect for yourself then you wont tolerate any less from anybody else, including your wife.


Read up on boundaries and develop your own set and then assert them http://www.bettermen.org/better-men-store.asp. Even just reading about them will give you a very much greater sense of who you are and will make your head go up and your back go straight.