That was exactly how I took the email...I hear what she is saying and I am glad that she has actually voiced her anger..but at the same time I really do feel this IS, from her perspective, a power struggle...and I am sure that it is also fear speaking...otherwise why threaten me...and even though she says it isn't a threat, it is. I don't mind that she contact me at work...I am always able to break off and talk for a minute, this felt more deliberate...more challenging.
The reason I chose not to respond to her email is that words on paper are very often misconstrued...and I don't like the idea of giving her a response that she will read more meaning into then what there is.
I want to talk things through, and don't feel that I have been in any way mean...just that I haven't been as easy going as she has been spoiled to think I am.
When she says she isn't a child...it's to me, a childish reaction...She was obviously mad about other things in her day and it seems she was looking to use me as a punching bag...but I didn't let her...now, like a child, she is lashing out at me. Do you think I am wrong to think that way? If I am in the wrong I will admit it...and own it as well. I just don't think I was.
What’s happening is that you are seeing things a lot clearer. You are no longer being “reactive”, simply reacting to your wife. And because of that you are not so emotionally charged and so your blinkers are coming off.
And because of that “simple” change, not reacting to your wife, you have massively and dramatically changed the dynamics in your relationship.
In essence you have taken the remote control of your emotions out of your wife’s hands. Don’t ever give it back.
Emotional manipulators don’t like it at all when they lose their control. That loss of control may be enough for your wife to end your marriage. But I think she will talk about it rather than actually end it. If that’s the case it means you are far too good a guy to throw away.
Originally Posted by MPDBlues
I have known for a while but ignored it and only just woke up to realize in just a few days that I am in serious trouble in my Marriage, and I want to repair it.
My wife has lost all respect for me, is completely resentful of me, berates me over almost everything, belittles me, treats me like a child, and just recently told me that she finds me utterly unattractive. I realize this sounds horrible to say about her...but amazingly after just reading a few posts here...albeit from a while ago, I find I am largely to blame for it...I am the epitome of the "NICE GUY" and as far from MANNING UP as you can get. I know she loves me...sounds weird to say that but I see it in her eyes...but then there are times when she looks at me and I can see disgust.
She told me the other night with tears in her eyes that she finds me unattractive because of the way I laugh and giggle at times ( I do have a "higher" pitch and timber to my voice and laugh, no Barry White here, except first thing in the morning...lol), and although it's been the same since I met her, she told me it just keeps getting more and more grating when I do it, and she wishes that I would change it so that she would be more attracted to me, that she desperately WANTS to be attracted to me, because she loves me. But...I'm beginning to see that this is about WAY more than just my laugh...
Mike made the choice to 'Man Up' based directly on input from his wife.
This isn't about a guy not doing enough for, or paying attention to his wife. This is about a guy whose wife simply is no longer into him ... and she wishes that wasn't the case.
But nonetheless, she is not going to go along quietly with ANY changes that he makes that directly impacts her.
I think boundaries are really key. And setting a boundary about when to talk about their marriage problems is a good a place to start as any.
Mike’s wife is totally used to being able to manipulate the heck out of him. Either consciously or subconsciously, probably both. Women are masters at emotions, reading them, communicating them and manipulating them.
I’d think to date in their relationship Mike’s emotions have been totally under his wife’s control. Well he's taking that control away from her and she doesn’t like it and she wont like it one little bit.
This is all classic stuff. It’s what happens when a man puts up boundaries such that his wife can no longer get inside of him and manipulate his emotions.
In a very big sense Mike’s wife IS losing him. She probably feels that she’s already lost him as she can no longer manipulate him.
But the purpose isn't for a wife to lose her husband. The point is for the man to take the lead in the relationship. You don't have to be a jerk to make that happen. All that's needed is a firm hand, and knowing when to push back. It has to be focused. If it's not then it's just boundaries for the sake of boundaries just because we feel like it. That's not healthy.
I agree with you that there is a possibility of him being manipulated, but there's also a possibility that she's really feeling like she doesn't want to be in a relationship with this new guy, because he's gone overboard with the "my way or the highway" stuff.
There's a balance. You have to know that overcompensating is something that men specialize in. And what happens if the man overcompensates when setting boundaries? He isolates himself and doesn't let her have a say in the marriage. His attempts to not be a doormat make her a doormat or at the very least isolates him from his wife. That's not healthy either.
Maybe you know more about the situation than I do. If so, cool. But there's 2 sides here. Both should be considered to give the best advice.
Mike made the choice to 'Man Up' based directly on input from his wife.
This isn't about a guy not doing enough for, or paying attention to his wife. This is about a guy whose wife simply is no longer into him ... and she wishes that wasn't the case.
But nonetheless, she is not going to go along quietly with ANY changes that he makes that directly impacts her.
I don't know, man.
I think with the attitude this way...yikes.
I'd like to see the divorce stats of those who "man-up" this way. I'm betting they're pretty high. Things done with the best of intentions can go too far.
The hot dog is a microcosm of the way many women "communicate" (Far to generous a word)
She didn`t like the way he was doing it so he (as a male) directly asked her to tell him how she liked it and she (as a female) would rather not tell him because that might actually lead to a mutual understanding and then should wouldn`t get the pleasure of being a ***** to him for two days over a ****ing hot dog.
OP, I wouldn`t analyze a damn thing in that e-mail.
I`d blow the whole thing off and forget it ever happened.
When she wants to act like a rational grown up I might find some time to talk to her....maybe.
I thoroughly agree with your asterisk laden assessment. But I also don't doubt that all of this resistance is a direct result that she KNOWS what he's doing.
This is why I advocate NOT discussing any kind of 'Man Up' strategy whatsoever, with a spouse.
And moreover, this isn't new ... Mike can correct, but I believe this pattern of behavior is somewhat common. She's on the fence ... and I don't think she knows how to get off the fence.
Mike made the choice to 'Man Up' based directly on input from his wife.
This isn't about a guy not doing enough for, or paying attention to his wife. This is about a guy whose wife simply is no longer into him ... and she wishes that wasn't the case.
But nonetheless, she is not going to go along quietly with ANY changes that he makes that directly impacts her.
Right. It's quite obvious that he does enough for his wife and family. But he needs to take his wife along with him or she will feel, and quite clearly is feeling, left behind.
So, hot dog scenario...
Her..."Why don't you cook my hot dogs right? Jeeeesus is that too much to ask?!"
Him..."Why don't you come over here and get a taste of my hot dog. Is that too much to ask?"
(telling her...it's not as if you meet all my needs either biatch but with humor)
-or-
"Really wifey? I mean seriously? You are really going to make an issue over the fact that I don't cook your hot dogs right? You don't see the insanity in that?!"
(willingness to confront, to argue...to get to the bottom of the fact that neither one feels like their needs are being met and they're both feeling like it's f'd up)
I'd like to see the divorce stats of those who "man-up" this way. I'm betting they're pretty high. Things done with the best of intentions can go too far.
That was my point. Don't play a game unless you know the reality of the possible outcomes from playing it and are willing to accept them.
Mem, Deej, Hal, Conrad, Bob, Tac and all others might relate to this guy but they're not going to face the reality of possible outcomes as a result of their advice. They're in it for the sake of the man's pov and not necessarily the health of the relationship in general. (No offense Boyz)
I'd like to see the divorce stats of those who "man-up" this way. I'm betting they're pretty high. Things done with the best of intentions can go too far.
Which is where I part company with many others. I don't believe for a moment that 'Manning Up' is a marriage saving strategy
But the purpose isn't for a wife to lose her husband. The point is for the man to take the lead in the relationship. You don't have to be a jerk to make that happen. All that's needed is a firm hand, and knowing when to push back. It has to be focused. If it's not then it's just boundaries for the sake of boundaries just because we feel like it. That's not healthy.
I agree with you that there is a possibility of him being manipulated, but there's also a possibility that she's really feeling like she doesn't want to be in a relationship with this new guy, because he's gone overboard with the "my way or the highway" stuff.
There's a balance. You have to know that overcompensating is something that men specialize in. And what happens if the man overcompensates when setting boundaries? He isolates himself and doesn't let her have a say in the marriage. His attempts to not be a doormat make her a doormat or at the very least isolates him from his wife. That's not healthy either.
Maybe you know more about the situation than I do. If so, cool. But there's 2 sides here. Both should be considered to give the best advice.
Of course Mrs Mike is losing her husband. Her husband (as she knew him) has already left the house!
Mike is transitioning through change. Lets say before the change he was MikeA and After the change he’s MikeB.
Mrs Mike has already lost MikeA. He’s gone and he’s probably gone forever.
Of course Mike could ask his wife to tell him exactly what she wants him to be. Let’s call that Mike MikeP. Guess what? If Mike ever became MikeP his wife will want him to change yet again. Not only that, instead of being his Own Man, he will be his Wife’s man!
As I see it Mike WILL grow. That’s simply not negotiable. It’s his wife’s choice as to whether she joins him in that growth or not.
I thoroughly agree with your asterisk laden assessment. But I also don't doubt that all of this resistance is a direct result that she KNOWS what he's doing.
This is why I advocate NOT discussing any kind of 'Man Up' strategy whatsoever, with a spouse.
And moreover, this isn't new ... Mike can correct, but I believe this pattern of behavior is somewhat common. She's on the fence ... and I don't think she knows how to get off the fence.
He could be the gentleman and "lead" her down. I think that would be the nice guy/alpha man's way. I'm curious to see if it would work.
In this case both want to be in the relationship and value the relationship. There is no cheating (unless I missed something), there are petty struggles for power, discontentment for both and confusion as to what is going to happen. Sucky place to be on both sides.
That was my point. Don't play a game unless you know the reality of the possible outcomes from playing it and are willing to accept them.
Mem, Deej, Hal, Conrad, Bob, Tac and all others might relate to this guy but they're not going to face the reality of possible outcomes as a result of their advice. They're in it for the sake of the man's pov and not necessarily the health of the relationship in general. (No offense Boyz)
None taken ... see previous post
And that's coming from the guy that suggested engaging her and listening to what she has to say ... for the sake of her feelings, and to give him information.
She has already clearly stated ... she isn't attracted to him, and does not respect him.
Therefore ... when he reciprocates those behaviors such as not waiting at the health club to start working out (seriously?) or not cooking a hot dog up to her expectation ... she interprets his behavior as a lack of respect.
Of course Mike could always be the man his wife wants him to be.
Or he can be the Man he wants to be.
Happiness, peace, contentment, self-respect and self-esteem do not necessarily reside in the former. In fact it seems for Mike that’s definitely NOT the case.
That latter is way worth letting even someone you love deeply go if that’s what it takes. Most especially if it means growth in self-respect and self-esteem and of course happiness, peace and contentment.
Mike’s wife really should TAKE NOTE that that man her husband is NOT a happy bunny!
And that's coming from the guy that suggested engaging her and listening to what she has to say ... for the sake of her feelings, and to give him information.
She has already clearly stated ... she isn't attracted to him, and does not respect him.
Therefore ... when he reciprocates those behaviors such as not waiting at the health club to start working out (seriously?) or not cooking a hot dog up to her expectation ... she interprets his behavior as a lack of respect.
Ironic, no?
My husband and I wait for one another before we begin working out at the gym and neither one of us will go without the other. If I asked him to get something at the store he'd leave and get it regardless of whether he'd passed the store and would do so without any complaint. I'd wake him up in a heartbeat to fix the AC. I write several emails and call him several times while he's at work. I'd even likely complain about him not cooking my food properly or not cleaning the toilet properly.
Now...judge me on the above information alone and ask no more and what do you have?
The question that needs answering is why she is not attracted to him. So why is she not attracted to him?
Is it because he's not a man?
I don't think so at all and I wouldn't take a guess until I had more information.
Of course Mike could always be the man his wife wants him to be.
Or he can be the Man he wants to be.
Happiness, peace, contentment, self-respect and self-esteem do not necessarily reside in the former. In fact it seems for Mike that’s definitely NOT the case.
That latter is way worth letting even someone you love deeply go if that’s what it takes. Most especially if it means growth in self-respect and self-esteem and of course happiness, peace and contentment.
Mike’s wife really should TAKE NOTE that that man her husband is NOT a happy bunny!
She was making him UNHAPPY, SAD and MISERABLE.
He could also be the man you all want him to be which is, in fact, what you're advocating for.
Sounds to me like your wife is being dramatic because, to her, everything has become charged with some meaning that is relative to her situation. It feels like a power play, but not like a struggle for dominance, just like a struggle for stability -- at least from what I'm reading.
There's a lot that isn't being communicated between the two of you and you're going to have to talk to her to see what the actual significance of these interactions is for her, but I'm giving you an example of what could be under the surface, based on what I am reading on your thread. --
-- She wanted to meet you at the store, you declined. I'm guessing she felt a little rejected.
-- She wanted to meet you to work-out at the gym, and probably thought of it as an activity you were doing together, and you started without her. I'm guessing she felt irrelevant or like she might if you had started a movie without that she thought you guys were watching together. That would feel both like rejection and like dismissal.
-- Then, you brought up a photo that she's upset about. I'm guessing she felt poked in a vulnerable emotional space and like you were being insensitive.
-- Then, when you decided to cook something and instead of taking into account her way of doing it when she voiced her concern, you walked away from it altogether. She was bothered about the other stuff and so she was being snippy about it instead of polite. I'm guessing she felt dismissed and unimportant and at this point like you were rejecting her because she didn't ask you in the right way, when you weren't trying to be like that but just handing her the reins.
In my opinion, her behavior here is childish -- you offered to cook for her, she set conditions on it without being polite or gracious. You chose to step aside and let her do it herself rather than be micromanaged. She should have cooked it herself. Instead, she saw your actions -- relinquishing control to her so she can have her way without using you as a tool to get her way -- as a passive aggressive stunt. Instead of talking to you about it, she emailed you about it. Unfortunately, she's threatening and throwing a tantrum in the email instead of communicating her issue properly, probably because at this point, she doesn't feel quite safe enough to be vulnerable. Your change of behavior has her confused and feeling destabilized. Remember the goal of changing your behavior isn't to manipulate her, but change your dynamic and so if she has no idea why you are doing these things, you need to reinforce your actions with a calm and rational explanation -- that is, when she has a tantrum (which is how this seems), you explain that you're not taking snarky jabs at her, just that you don't feel mutually respected and aren't going to respond to her rudeness in that way. If she had called you at work to fight about a hot dog, that would be disrespectful of your work and would be rude. You could have just as easily emailed her back to say "I'm not sure I really understand why you're so upset about this, but we can talk about it at home." and leave it at that instead of getting upset in turn and scoffing that she had the audacity to be upset about something as trivial as a hot dog. You're escalating things. That isn't undoing Mr Nice Guy syndrome, that is being petty and dismissive of whatever it is her concern is. Yes, she's being stroppy and childish, but you don't have to do the same and ridicule her. You are also being a little childish. You could be the calm one to help create stability while you are changing your patterns, instead of reinforcing insecurity that she is feeling from being destabilized.
Do what you're doing, but read between the lines. Don't just destabilize her to manipulate her. Communicate so that what new stability emerges, is a balanced one for you both. Since you're the one trying to overhaul your interpersonal dynamic, you have to be careful that you're not just reversing things, but creating a balance.
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Re: Really...I mean Really...LOL! 
