Mike, I don’t believe wives just wake up one morning no longer having desire for their husband. There may well be something going on behind the scenes with your wife that you’re totally and absolutely unaware of. There may well be a toxic friend, an affair partner or a guy who wants to have your wife stirring up the sh!te.
If they exist they must be exposed or else you will most certainly find you are fighting a losing battle as any of these things are like a malignant cancer in a marriage.
It is far better NOT to directly confront your wife but to snoop and if you do find evidence expose it in your own time and when you are good and ready.
I think they are deeper issues at hand than just over the hot dog, did you read the email she is clearly telling you this is not just this time, and its probably no the only thing you have been doing, she says she doesn't recognize the person she married. Not to mention she said the word resentment, she is telling much more than just this hot dog fight.
You should sit down with your wife and apologize, tell her in your own word that you are sorry that you inconsiderate and that you didn't mean to be. Ask her if there are other things bothering her, if she says there is nothing, there is something, so don't stop there. Ask her again and tell her you know that there are other things that are making her unhappy and that you don't want her to be unhappy and that you are sorry you have over looked her emotions and perhaps even needs.
She is probably under stress of some sort, sometime a lady can get very irritated, but want thing you don't want is resentment. Bring her some flowers and apologize, thats a start and than talk to her, clearly there are things that are weighing her down and made her write that message.
However considering she said its not a threat, she is saying there is still chance for you to make up before she breaks, don't let it get that far, be nice to her and take some time to really talk.
I still think his wife is in the starting stages of a mid life crisis, the whole thing about the her being angry about the "Girls night out" Photo raises red flags for me, almost like she was worried about what might be in the pictures.
If she is going through MLC and the changes he makes are really going to piss her off, because in her mind it removes any excuse she might have to leave. At some point it won't matter, he'll get that the changes were 'Too little, too late" and that will be it. Some wives going through this realize something is wrong and roll back and forth trying to figure it out for a couple of years before dropping the bomb and leaving.
You don't want to overdo it. I'm glad moxy helped you see this as it was the substance of my post as well.
AFEH recommends the Anthony DeMello book time and again. It's a superb book.
Within the book is this little tidbit of wisdom. DeMello talks of the ways to give pleasure. He numbers them:
1) Giving pleasure to yourself. This could include a purchase, a workout, time for you. Easy, right? (Except that for niceguys, we often forego this altogether, which is stupid)
2) Giving pleasure to others that makes you feel good about you. Charity, fixing a car, helping a friend, etc. This could even involve helping your child in crisis, etc. The key here is that the process makes you FEEL GOOD about you. When people called Mother Theresa selfish, I agreed with them. The reason she was so effective in her missionary/charity work is that it CLEARLY made her feel good about HER to do it. How it helped the other people? She wanted it to be effective, but her self image did not depend on their response.
3) Giving pleasure to others that makes you FEEL BAD about you.
Think about this one.
Think about it hard.
In your growth, the ONLY thing you are trying to do is to eliminate #3's from your interactions with your wife and the world.
The key here? If your pleasure in doing something DEPENDS on their gratitude or their response? Don't do it.
Because they may not be grateful.
If your pleasure depends on their response, then you are a co-dependent.
Not a good place to be.
BTW - cooking a hot dog the way she likes doesn't make you a co-dependent.
I still think his wife is in the starting stages of a mid life crisis, the whole thing about the her being angry about the "Girls night out" Photo raises red flags for me, almost like she was worried about what might be in the pictures.
If she is going through MLC and the changes he makes are really going to piss her off, because in her mind it removes any excuse she might have to leave. At some point it won't matter, he'll get that the changes were 'Too little, too late" and that will be it. Some wives going through this realize something is wrong and roll back and forth trying to figure it out for a couple of years before dropping the bomb and leaving.
Yes. It was what prompted me to advise Mike to snoop on his wife.
Sometimes you've to start believing the impossible to really get to the truth of things.
You know I am an ASS (awarenes, awareness, awareness! many of you will get that I'm sure lol) and really feeling schooled this morning...I stayed up late reading through both my posts and all the responses...My wife was, after our talk, kind and loving, no BS...She said we were good, and I could tell she meant it...we sat doing a few things together on the computer and it felt good. I know that it's not going to be like this always...hell it's only been a little while. I need to remember that more.
I am really upset with myself for being childish...and I was, thanks for the lessons all. I made this about a battle...I forgot that this isn't a quick fix, in essence it's a war (but fought with love)...I was swept up in thinking I have to the be the MAN and do it all tough, but I can be the man and still be gentle...THAT was the man my wife married...I don't want to be the man I let myself become...again...I want to modify the man I am becoming to be a mix of the best of both. I need to keep the connection to the kind, loving, gentle-hearted, compassionate man I was...without the 'Mr. Nice Guy' who was the constantly needy, dependant, annoyer. And I need to seamlessly blend in the strong, independant, trustworthy, alpha, who can rock my wifes world.
I think I became the classic example of the over compensator. I fell into the trap that was brought up here, about going to far the other way and over-thinking every situation. Last night my wife did something great...During our talk/ranting she brought up that the night of our argument when she wasn't talking to me I said "goodnight" to her...I thought I said it gently and sweetly, she heard mockingly and gloatingly (that even a word? lol), then yesterday morning I said "good morning" softly but upbeat...she heard it overly-sweetly. here's what followed:
ME "Was I smiling or showing anger, at either time?"
HER "Smiling I guess, but I thought that was you, being sarcastic"
ME "It was me just saying goodnight and good morning, again was I angry?"
HER "No I guess not, I don't know"
I just stood there and didn't say anything for a bit, no anger just waiting...
HER "Ok...can you do something for me then next time?"
ME "What would that be?"
HER "Even if I am being B!tchy and not talking, can you just say to me "I know your angry right now, but I'm not and just want to say goodnight" "
I was floored...she actually told me that she wanted me to tell her where I was, to talk to her, even if she wasn't talking to me and I realized I hadn't been doing that...I was trying to play it cool, be the tough guy. I saw from her perspective, at that point, that I was just being a hard ass with a smile...I wasn't standing my ground, I was digging in and lobbing grenades.
Our relationship in the past was vocal and open, and little by little it changed to something more emotional...her becoming controlling and resentful, and my becoming needy and over emotional. She fell in love with me for many things and found me attractive even though I was a very big guy, and I fell in love with her sweetness and kindness, her smile and her playfulness, her sexy little swagger. I forgot those things in my haze of anger, (the why me, wah-wah-wah thing).
I can already tell she is feeling more attracted to me after just a few weeks, she sees me changing myself physically and mentally and was having a hard time coming to grips with me doing so...she actually said I was looking really hot and that she didn't want a hot husband, because she was afraid she wouldn't be pretty enough to keep me...lol that felt good and bad at the same time...because I realized she is feeling really low right now and I was pushing so hard that she was feeling ground down. She wants to change for me too...even though she feels that might be an impossible task, I made it clear again that I am not asking her to do that that I want her to accept my changing me.
I will keep reading and trying to learn to be "me" better, because that is what "I" need...but I want to keep the connection open with my wife and let her know what I'm doing and where I'm going with it, and how I want our relationship to evolve, and become the great one "we" know it can be. I know some of you will say don't give too much info to her, and I won't tell her everything, but I have seen that clamming up and acting tough isn't the same as being open but assertive. I think I like the second one much better as that can be clearly understood, it might still cause fights and anger on both sides but it's way better than the alternative which is not possible anymore.
I wanted to change the title of my post, but I think I will leave it 'as is' so that I have a reminder of what can happen when you forget there are 2 important people in each relationship. Plus I don't know if I can even do that here...lol
You don't want to overdo it. I'm glad moxy helped you see this as it was the substance of my post as well.
AFEH recommends the Anthony DeMello book time and again. It's a superb book.
Within the book is this little tidbit of wisdom. DeMello talks of the ways to give pleasure. He numbers them:
1) Giving pleasure to yourself. This could include a purchase, a workout, time for you. Easy, right? (Except that for niceguys, we often forego this altogether, which is stupid)
2) Giving pleasure to others that makes you feel good about you. Charity, fixing a car, helping a friend, etc. This could even involve helping your child in crisis, etc. The key here is that the process makes you FEEL GOOD about you. When people called Mother Theresa selfish, I agreed with them. The reason she was so effective in her missionary/charity work is that it CLEARLY made her feel good about HER to do it. How it helped the other people? She wanted it to be effective, but her self image did not depend on their response.
3) Giving pleasure to others that makes you FEEL BAD about you.
Think about this one.
Think about it hard.
In your growth, the ONLY thing you are trying to do is to eliminate #3's from your interactions with your wife and the world.
The key here? If your pleasure in doing something DEPENDS on their gratitude or their response? Don't do it.
Because they may not be grateful.
If your pleasure depends on their response, then you are a co-dependent.
Not a good place to be.
BTW - cooking a hot dog the way she likes doesn't make you a co-dependent.
Love this one Conrad...bullseye!
I have read the book and, as stated earlier, I am reading it again, and probably again, because I obviously have not gleaned all that I need to...not by a long shot...lol
I know some of you are calling for me to 'snoop' but I really feel confident in saying there is not another 'anyone' in the mix...My wifes reaction to the photo's is a visceral reaction to how she looked in the photo's...she's a hairdresser...all of the girls she hangs with are younger and in her terms "beautiful skinny B!tches" she loves them dearly but knows she is jealous of them for being hot. My wife is a beautiful woman..curvy and full figured (the way I like it,) but a bit heavy right now. Since she had our daughter she has had a real hard time feeling comfortable in her own skin and has kept the weight on, and so did I until I started getting healthier...so, picture being an 40ish woman, in a service environment surrounded by attractive younger woman, with a husband who is suddenly getting thinner and stronger, mentally, and physically and having body issues on top of that. Get where I'm going?
I know it's easy to read into things here, I'm guilty of it too, but my wifes issues are very well known to me...and some of my behavior of late has absolutely exacerbated them. not for the better...and that is all part and parcel of the learning curve...which I even said to her last night...I am still learning how to be comfortable and assertive in my own skin and also how to do that without causing hurt or harm to her. I didn't focus on that as much as I should have, and have been called to task by many of you, and humbly I accept that advice, and I'll put it into practice.
W: Calls Mike from store and asks if he will meet her there (subtext: this is a request for quality time - a request for quality time is a variation of "I love you, or when someone is distraught - an even more intense phrase: do you love me?")
Mike: No, I already passed the store (subtext: even though you are nicely asking for quality time, I am rejecting you)
......
W: Gets to the gym and Mike is working out. Is already feeling rejected and upset and asks why he didn't wait so they could do this activity "together" (I am getting more upset and feeling MORE rejected)
M: Your fine (subtext: I am happy, why are you acting so strangely)
W: (doesn't he even care that I am upset)
Mike,
You are going to have to better differentiate between fitness tests - which the store request was not, and a request for quality time.
Also - hold on for a second buddy - letting your wife fully set the pace in the ILY/initiation department is a bit harsh. Zoinks Mike - if you are not initiating ANY of that - and you blow her off accidentally on this quality time stuff - ANY WOMAN - would flip out. TOTALLY flip out.
The initiation thing should be managed yes. It is ok to let her mostly set the pace. But it is healthy and necessary for you to initiate some amount - just guage her reaction - if she is responding enthusiastically you can safely do a little more - if she is a bit neutral do a bit less
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPDBlues
Conrad...
I think this might stem from the fact that I have been trying to change my thermostat still...I have not been chasing after her like I have for a looooong time...I have kept things "cooler" you know not saying ILY first, not calling or texting first, etc...I know this is really hard for her because I ALWAYS did that stuff...And I think she is freaked out that I have changed that aspect of me. I still do everything a good husband and father should daily.
Let me give a little more backround about yesterday and what led to this.
I was heading to the gym after work and my wife texted me asking if I would meet her at the store, (old me would have gone out of my way to meet her). New me responded that I was already past there (which I was) and that I would meet her at the gym, and that we could look at what she wanted this weekend. She responded ok and that she was checking out and would meet me there.
I get there and change and get into my workout...I check my phone and see that she called, so I call her back. She askes what I'm doing, and I tell her working out, she asks why didn't I wait...(should have been funny, but missed the opportunity) just said I don't know. let it go...She gets there and comes over to start her workout...I act like nothing happened and try to talk with her...I can tell she is in a mood, I tell her that I saw a pic a friend posted of her girls night...she was mad at her friend for posting the pic because she didn't like it and had asked her friend not too...
We finished our workouts and head home...she is already mad at me...but to this point I don't think I have done anything wrong.
It's late, and raining so I tell her we'll grill tomorrow and ask are hotdogs ok...she says yes...
She is already a bit frosty and I am just being normal...I start to cook and she asks me if I would take her hot dogs out of the pan. I say sure...and do so...she tells me that she doesn't like the way I cook them, that they are always a little burnt and then cold on the inside...so I say that fine...and try and get her to tell me how she would like them cooked...what temp, or better yet, ask her to set the temp on the pan so she is happy with it. She gets madder and starts to throw a bit of a tantrum...the old 'if you don't know how to cook them then I'll just cook them myself' bit...so I say "ok" and finish my cooking then tell her the pan is all hers....
You have already read the rest of what happened...
Right Mike. So your wife wants to be a REAL B!TCH to you but doesn’t want you to be AFFECTED by it at all.
In fact she wants you to be REALLY REALLY NICE to her at one and the same time that she’s being REALLY REALLY NASTY to you.
She has you dancing very NICELY in tune with her music no matter how friggin dysfunctional it is.
And then YOU cap it all by ACCEPTING HER TERMS and CONDITIONS while getting her to accept NONE WHATSOEVER of yours.
She doesn’t even give you any HOPE whatsoever that she will change one little bit.
And then to TOP IT ALL OFF she wants to KEEP YOU 150 POUNDS over weight so that you DO NOT BECOME A MORE ATTRACTIVE GUY!!!
She gives NOT A DAMN about the MASSIVE HEALTH IMPLICATIONS relative to you being ALMOST TWICE THE WEIGHT you should be.
Good trade buddy. A REAL lesson to all the NICE GUYS out there.
Here is a classic example of reading into things...lol (I say that with tongue firmly planted in cheek) AFEH I appreciate your zeal and passion!!
It may look that way, but I can tell you it's not. I didn't give in, or apologize, and my accepting her 'terms and condition' as you say was not me being a nice guy and not getting anything in return. To me it was HER 'accepting' my being assertive, but asking me to tell her exactly where I'm at at the moment. As was stated so succinctly by Conrad I can be strong and assertive without being mean or angry. I don't feel that was a demand, I think it was a sincere attempt to understand the process better.
As to giving me hope that she will change, "she" doesn't need to, I don't want or need her to change...I know that clearly about myself now..."I" need to change in how I am, and how I accept or don't accept certain treatment.
She has clearly stated to me that she knows that she is B!tchy a lot...I mean she KNOWS it...and she wants to change that about herself.
And as to the health thing, she is very supportive of that, even after we fought and made up, she asked why I had my jeans on still...I told her I didn't want to go to the gym and let this fight sit any longer than it had to. She told me the gym was open until 10...that I should go. And if she wasn't supportive why would she have joined as well? Just a thought...
W: Calls Mike from store and asks if he will meet her there (subtext: this is a request for quality time - a request for quality time is a variation of "I love you, or when someone is distraught - an even more intense phrase: do you love me?")
Mike: No, I already passed the store (subtext: even though you are nicely asking for quality time, I am rejecting you)
......
W: Gets to the gym and Mike is working out. Is already feeling rejected and upset and asks why he didn't wait so they could do this activity "together" (I am getting more upset and feeling MORE rejected)
M: Your fine (subtext: I am happy, why are you acting so strangely)
W: (doesn't he even care that I am upset)
Mike,
You are going to have to better differentiate between fitness tests - which the store request was not, and a request for quality time.
Also - hold on for a second buddy - letting your wife fully set the pace in the ILY/initiation department is a bit harsh. Zoinks Mike - if you are not initiating ANY of that - and you blow her off accidentally on this quality time stuff - ANY WOMAN - would flip out. TOTALLY flip out.
The initiation thing should be managed yes. It is ok to let her mostly set the pace. But it is healthy and necessary for you to initiate some amount - just guage her reaction - if she is responding enthusiastically you can safely do a little more - if she is a bit neutral do a bit less
Thanks MEM...
I can see that very clearly now (I bolded the text)...and was able to a bit yesterday as well. After talking to my wife last night that is how she saw things, maybe not in those exact words but that was it in a nutshell. And after reading through everything I am realizing more and more just how over the edge I have been. I turned the thermostat off, not down, OFF...I thought I was just turning it down...but it was OFF...WAY too harsh...I cut her off cold turkey...and she did flip...when we talked I told her "I do truly love you" and she responded "I don't feel that right now" That hit me, in a good, 'wake up and look at what your doing' way.
Here is a classic example of reading into things...lol (I say that with tongue firmly planted in cheek) AFEH I appreciate your zeal and passion!!
It may look that way, but I can tell you it's not. I didn't give in, or apologize, and my accepting her 'terms and condition' as you say was not me being a nice guy and not getting anything in return. To me it was HER 'accepting' my being assertive, but asking me to tell her exactly where I'm at at the moment. As was stated so succinctly by Conrad I can be strong and assertive without being mean or angry. I don't feel that was a demand, I think it was a sincere attempt to understand the process better.
As to giving me hope that she will change, "she" doesn't need to, I don't want or need her to change...I know that clearly about myself now..."I" need to change in how I am, and how I accept or don't accept certain treatment.
She has clearly stated to me that she knows that she is B!tchy a lot...I mean she KNOWS it...and she wants to change that about herself.
And as to the health thing, she is very supportive of that, even after we fought and made up, she asked why I had my jeans on still...I told her I didn't want to go to the gym and let this fight sit any longer than it had to. She told me the gym was open until 10...that I should go. And if she wasn't supportive why would she have joined as well? Just a thought...
Look next time your wife tells you things like “When I’m being a b!tch you will not only suck it up you will also be NICE to me” tell her it’s not going to happen that way. Tell her next time she’s deliberately and consciously provoking you, you WILL put her over your knee and give her a spanking”.
You are SUPPOSED to be establishing your boundaries. Not WORKING WITH YOUR WIFE to dismantle them.
The “contract” you’ve agreed to and signed your name to will have the very long term effect of your wife being a b!tch to you when and for whatever reason she wants. If a client p!ssed her, she’ll take it out on you. If a driver cut her up on the way to work, she’ll take it out on you. If one of her friends messes her off, she’ll take it out on you.
In fact your contract with her is to be her WHIPPING BOY.
AND YOU AGREED TO AND SIGNED UP FOR IT AND A VERY CONSCIOUS WAY!!!
MDP, I thought she said the same thing Before you even started the "man up" stuff, so what's really changed other than her reading you the riot act after you attempted to give her what she wanted?
62Likes
Re: Really...I mean Really...LOL! 
) but a bit heavy right now. Since she had our daughter she has had a real hard time feeling comfortable in her own skin and has kept the weight on, and so did I until I started getting healthier...so, picture being an 40ish woman, in a service environment surrounded by attractive younger woman, with a husband who is suddenly getting thinner and stronger, mentally, and physically and having body issues on top of that. Get where I'm going?
