I don't mean to undermine what's going on here, but is it possible that NMMNG is not as useful when you're dealing with a wife who has obvious and serious emotional problems? It seems like NMMNG works best for men who are in relationships with pretty stable women who, over time, have just flat out taken advantage of their nice guy husband.
NJPCA's wife has serious problems. He's not dealing with a stable person. He can use some of the tools from NMMNG to get her to address her very serious emotional problems, but until they are addressed, I don't think he's going to get where he wants to be.
I'm sorry, but this woman needs serious help. She needs to be seeing mental health professionals.
This is what Deej was talking about. NMMNG is not a way of dealing with your wife. It's not a way of fixing your marriage or your relationship. It's not about the wife at all. It's about you.
I don't mean to undermine what's going on here, but is it possible that NMMNG is not as useful when you're dealing with a wife who has obvious and serious emotional problems? It seems like NMMNG works best for men who are in relationships with pretty stable women who, over time, have just flat out taken advantage of their nice guy husband.
NJPCA's wife has serious problems. He's not dealing with a stable person. He can use some of the tools from NMMNG to get her to address her very serious emotional problems, but until they are addressed, I don't think he's going to get where he wants to be.
I'm sorry, but this woman needs serious help. She needs to be seeing mental health professionals.
Drover, I hear what you're saying, but most of the guys who implement the NMMNG tools are doing it because they are unhappy with how they feel about themselves in the context of their marriage. It is an indirect way of "dealing" with your wife because you're trying to change yourself so that you feel better about your interactions with your wife and your place in the household.
Most nice guys are pretty satisfied in the fact that they are nice guys. They think that being a nice guy should make any woman happy. They have to change that mindset because being a nice guy is having the opposite effect than what they think should happen.
Therefore, NMMNG is a method to changing yourself, but only because you don't like where being a nice guy has gotten you. Most nice guys would just prefer that their wife appreciate who they have and show them how much they appreciate it. Sadly, that doesn't often happen.
NJPCA is making these changes precisely because he doesn't like where he stands in the marital household. Therefore he's making these changes to change the dynamic between himself and his wife. My fear is that before a new, healthy dynamic can be created (using whatever method), you need to be with someone who is emotionally capable of creating that dynamic with you. This man's wife is not.
I don't know all of the facts of NJPCA's life and marriage, but I do know that rationalizing with a crazy person is impossible and leaving her because she's crazy is immoral. This woman needs serious professional help and only when some level of emotional stability is reached can NJPCA determine whether or not the NMMNG model works for him.
Drover, I hear what you're saying, but most of the guys who implement the NMMNG tools are doing it because they are unhappy with how they feel about themselves in the context of their marriage. It is an indirect way of "dealing" with your wife because you're trying to change yourself so that you feel better about your interactions with your wife and your place in the household.
Most nice guys are pretty satisfied in the fact that they are nice guys. They think that being a nice guy should make any woman happy. They have to change that mindset because being a nice guy is having the opposite effect than what they think should happen.
Therefore, NMMNG is a method to changing yourself, but only because you don't like where being a nice guy has gotten you. Most nice guys would just prefer that their wife appreciate who they have and show them how much they appreciate it. Sadly, that doesn't often happen.
I don't think this is true at all. From my own experience I resented her every second I was a nice guy, and resented myself for my behavior too. Nice guys might tell themselves a lot of things, but when they stop lying to themselves they know they're not happy with being what they are.
The advanced state of marital decay is only the trigger that finally makes them look at the truth about themselves.
The offshoot of all this, C123, is that the former NG will start to be proud of himself, treat himself more fairly, and consider himself a good catch. None of which was apparent before. Any NG needs that to be able to approach the table willing to defend himself. After that, what happens, happens.
The thing is, whether it's a BH trying to get his WW to stop cheating, a NG trying to get his wife to stop abusing him, whether it's a SS man trying to get his wife to get in bed more...what we give them is a tool, a step, that will help them achieve what they need. They all START OUT doing this so they can get what they want in their marriage.
And, along the way, they realize that what we were really talking about was them fixing THEMSELVES so that, no matter WHAT the wife does, they will be ok with themselves.
She came back this morning and I talked further about everything. I used AFEH's script to console and try to get her understand more fully what I was trying to say last night.
The thing she keeps getting wrapped about it all is that she doesn't understand why I have to protect myself in our marriage and that I should at least be open to her. I continued to reiterate that I don't want to get angry the way I normally do, in a passive aggressive way, but I think all she is seeing is that any boundaries I create is a way for me to wall up to her and not show emotion.
She states that I have put us through too much these last couple years because of the way I have acted and she basically wants some guarantees/assurances that she will be able to handle this all even if I don't want to continue
The first example, and later she admitted that this was an extreme example, was that we come to a post nuptial agreement to ensure she will be taken care of (WTF!!). Then she just said want me to be open to her emotionally and to not treat her in the ways that I had been doing in NMMNG approach. I continued to try to coax her that this is me trying to change and do something different so I don't act the way I did before, but to all it was just a constant reminder that I don't care about her and her needs.
To keep it dragging on yet again, I just said I will try to think about these things and talk again to tomorrow and then she left. So basically, I am supposed to come up with a way to know that she will better about this.
The tough thing about this, is that I don't know if there can be any guarantees in what I can provide for her. I know that I can work on myself and that's it, and just hope she can deal with. It appears the NMMNG is not the way that she can deal with things and I will either have to abandon it or basically face the facts that she will this as a way of us moving on and as Turnera pointed out, "fall flat on her face."
She has completely destroyed my vacation plans and has left me to try to deal with these issues now. I stated that I was upset and angry about this happening this way and she retorted "Well, I am sorry but you destroyed my life up to this point" But she did have a good point that it was going to have take this vacation period for us to finally take some serious time in dealing with these issues. Still, this really sucks and is way too much to deal with emotionally in such a short period of time!
"She has completely destroyed my vacation plans and has left me to try to deal with these issues now. I stated that I was upset and angry about this happening this way and she retorted "Well, I am sorry but you destroyed my life up to this point" But she did have a good point that it was going to have take this vacation period for us to finally take some serious time in dealing with these issues. Still, this really sucks and is way too much to deal with emotionally in such a short period of time!"
Don't you dare let this woman do this to you. This is unacceptable behavior from an adult. I'm not sure this relationship is salvageable on any level. Do whatever the hell you want to do. Don't let her BS determine what you do on your vacation and don't let her put the blame on you. Whatever it is that you did to her is in the past. Either she gets over it or she doesn't. I now agree with Drover and Turnera. This person is a master manipulator because they are the only people who would say such a thing to their husband. Enough is enough.
And BTW, I know that my wife is probably more emotionally unstable because I KNOW NOW the kind of **** she has gone through before meeting me. Unfortunately I had to find them out while I was married.
The problem is that I don't think anyone can or will tell her that she has to change also. It's clear that all her therapist does is validate her feelings and keeps her coming back until she does something about it. Even recently, she admitted that he often tells her she may just have to pack up and leave, but she has very little faith in doing so without feeling miserable.
And any counselor that we go together has to subjective and look at both sides of the pond and not place blame, so there is not really an avenue for someone to just tell it to her like it is and give it to her straight. Maybe that's part of NMMNG ways of finally doing that for her.
I don't even know what I'm reading here. none of this makes any sense.
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Originally Posted by njpca
The thing she keeps getting wrapped about it all is that she doesn't understand why I have to protect myself in our marriage and that I should at least be open to her. I continued to reiterate that I don't want to get angry the way I normally do, in a passive aggressive way, but I think all she is seeing is that any boundaries I create is a way for me to wall up to her and not show emotion.
Why are you explaining all this to her? Just act, man! Stop explaining yourself to her. State how you feel, then let her respond if she feels a need. But you don't have to defend a FEELING!
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She states that I have put us through too much these last couple years because of the way I have acted and she basically wants some guarantees/assurances that she will be able to handle this all even if I don't want to continue
What have you put her through? I thought you were passive-aggressive. That's the opposite of confrontation, the opposite of stating feelings, the opposite of yelling and screaming.
Passive-aggressive is pissy little get-even behavior, or trying to indirectly express your feelings with body-language or actions.
Stop doing that and just calmly tell her how you feel, when you feel it. Then let it go. No resentment.
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The first example, and later she admitted that this was an extreme example, was that we come to a post nuptial agreement to ensure she will be taken care of (WTF!!). Then she just said want me to be open to her emotionally and to not treat her in the ways that I had been doing in NMMNG approach. I continued to try to coax her that this is me trying to change and do something different so I don't act the way I did before, but to all it was just a constant reminder that I don't care about her and her needs.
How is a post-nup passive aggressive? That doesn't even make sense. If you're treating her badly doing NMMNG then you're doing it wrong. If you're calm, cool and quiet and she doesn't like that, that's her problem not yours. Why are you trying to convince her to like it? STOP!
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To keep it dragging on yet again, I just said I will try to think about these things and talk again to tomorrow and then she left. So basically, I am supposed to come up with a way to know that she will better about this.
STOP!!!
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The tough thing about this, is that I don't know if there can be any guarantees in what I can provide for her. I know that I can work on myself and that's it, and just hope she can deal with. It appears the NMMNG is not the way that she can deal with things and I will either have to abandon it or basically face the facts that she will this as a way of us moving on and as Turnera pointed out, "fall flat on her face."
STOP explaining and defending yourself!!! NMMNG isn't about HER dealing with anything!
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She has completely destroyed my vacation plans and has left me to try to deal with these issues now. I stated that I was upset and angry about this happening this way and she retorted "Well, I am sorry but you destroyed my life up to this point" But she did have a good point that it was going to have take this vacation period for us to finally take some serious time in dealing with these issues. Still, this really sucks and is way too much to deal with emotionally in such a short period of time!
Nj, you should also use the support forums on the nmmng site.
Was your wife abused or assaulted? Thay adds a major complication. Posted via Mobile Device
Yes, unfortunately she was in a abusive relationship years before she met me. She seemed so put together and she had reassured me that she had dealt with all of the issues and even when we were dating stopped going to therapy.
Sadly, I recently found out in the last several she was also raped when she was a teenager and had to have an abortion because of it. I was completely blown away by this and I feel it's created more anxiety on my part to have to make things better.
Goodness gracious me. Stop blaming your wife for your behaviour!
I don't see where I'm doing this. On the contrary, I have feel like I have gotten over a lot of it. Yes, I was upset over the vacation thing, but I thought I have a right to feel this way. In no way, was it to blame her. I just wanted to tell her that is how I felt. What behavior am I still exhibiting that incites blame?
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Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy: The Support Thread 
