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Old 06-20-2012, 04:45 PM   #181 (permalink)
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Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy: The Support Thread

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Originally Posted by njpca View Post
Yes, I am pretty sure it has come out in instances that you describe. And definetely I go back to NG routine later.

I don't think it has been continuous but it has gotten out on multiple occassions, sometimes over stupid things that I hold onto so badly.

Like one, she wanted to throw out a book that she thought was inappropriate and I didn't think that was necessary. It turned into a big fight and I went into the role, then finally when I couldn't take it anymore I just walked away and bottled it up again.
That is not even close to being abusive. Stop letting her guilt you.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:47 PM   #182 (permalink)
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Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy: The Support Thread

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Do you think this is wise that I just call him up on my own accord? I think she would be pretty offended that I just violated her space by doing such a thing
My brother was seeing a therapist once and he started talking suicide. So I called his therapist and warned her. He was furious at me.

But he was alive.

Don't tell her, then. Just call him and make your own appointment. In fact, do that first. And tell him what I said about her abusing you, and email him this thread ahead of your appointment.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:47 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy: The Support Thread

(Sorry, I can't figure out how to fix the formatting)
This is more about men on women, but much of it applies.

The aim of emotional abuse is to chip away at your feelings of self-worth and independence. If you’re the victim of emotional abuse, you may feel that there is no way out of the relationship or that without your abusive partner you have nothing. Emotional abuse includes verbal abuse such as yelling, name-calling, blaming, and shaming. Isolation, intimidation, and controlling behavior also fall under emotional abuse.


Remember, an abuser’s goal is to control you, and he or she will frequently use money to do so. Economic or financial abuse includes:
  • Rigidly controlling your finances.
  • Withholding money or credit cards.
  • Making you account for every penny you spend.
  • Withholding basic necessities (food, clothes, medications, shelter).
  • Restricting you to an allowance.
  • Preventing you from working or choosing your own career.
  • Sabotaging your job (making you miss work, calling constantly).
  • Stealing from you or taking your money.
  • Abusers use a variety of tactics to manipulate you and exert their power:
  • Dominance – Abusive individuals need to feel in charge of the relationship. They will make decisions for you and the family, tell you what to do, and expect you to obey without question. Your abuser may treat you like a servant, child, or even as his or her possession.
  • Humiliation – An abuser will do everything he or she can to make you feel bad about yourself or defective in some way. After all, if you believe you're worthless and that no one else will want you, you're less likely to leave. Insults, name-calling, shaming, and public put-downs are all weapons of abuse designed to erode your self-esteem and make you feel powerless.
  • Isolation – In order to increase your dependence on him or her, an abusive partner will cut you off from the outside world. He or she may keep you from seeing family or friends, or even prevent you from going to work or school. You may have to ask permission to do anything, go anywhere, or see anyone.
  • Threats – Abusers commonly use threats to keep their partners from leaving or to scare them into dropping charges. Your abuser may threaten to hurt or kill you, your children, other family members, or even pets. He or she may also threaten to commit suicide, file false charges against you, or report you to child services.
  • Intimidation – Your abuser may use a variety of intimidation tactics designed to scare you into submission. Such tactics include making threatening looks or gestures, smashing things in front of you, destroying property, hurting your pets, or putting weapons on display. The clear message is that if you don't obey, there will be violent consequences.
  • Denial and blame – Abusers are very good at making excuses for the inexcusable. They will blame their abusive and violent behavior on a bad childhood, a bad day, and even on the victims of their abuse. Your abusive partner may minimize the abuse or deny that it occurred. He or she will commonly shift the responsibility on to you: Somehow, his or her violent and abusive behavior is your fault.
Domestic Violence and Abuse: Signs of Abuse and Abusive Relationships

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Old 06-20-2012, 04:56 PM   #184 (permalink)
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10 Signs Your Girlfriend or Wife is an Emotional Bully

Does your girlfriend or wife yell, scream, and swear at you? Do you feel like you can’t talk to anyone about your relationship because they just wouldn’t understand? Is your relationship making you feel like you’re slowly going crazy?

If so, you’re probably involved with a woman who is an emotionally abusive bully. Most men don’t want to admit that they’re in an abusive relationship. They describe the relationship and their girlfriend/wife using other terms like crazy, emotional, controlling, bossy, domineering, constant conflict, or volatile. If you use words like this to describe your relationship, odds are you’re being emotionally abused.
Do you recognize any of the following behaviors?
1) Bullying. If she doesn’t get her way, there’s hell to pay. She wants to control you and resorts to emotional intimidation to do it. She uses verbal assaults and threats in order to get you to do what she wants. It makes her feel powerful to make you feel bad. People with a Narcissistic personality are often bullies.
Result: You lose your self-respect and feel outnumbered, sad, and alone. You develop a case of Stockholm Syndrome, in which you identify with the aggressor and actually defend her behavior to others.
2) Unreasonable expectations. No matter how hard you try and how much you give, it’s never enough. She expects you to drop whatever you’re doing and attend to her needs. No matter the inconvenience, she comes first. She has an endless list of demands that no one mere mortal could ever fulfill.
Common complaints include: You’re not romantic enough, you don’t spend enough time with me, you’re not sensitive enough, you’re not smart enough to figure out my needs, you’re not making enough money, you’re not FILL IN THE BLANK enough. Basically, you’re not enough, because there’s no pleasing this woman. No one will ever be enough for her, so don’t take it to heart.
Result: You’re constantly criticized because you’re not able to meet her needs and experience a sense of learned helplessness. You feel powerless and defeated because she puts you in no-win situations.
3) Verbal attacks.This is self-explanatory. She employs schoolyard name calling, pathologizing (e.g., armed with a superficial knowledge of psychology she uses diagnostic terms like labile, paranoid, narcissistic, etc. for a 50-cent version of name calling), criticizing, threatening, screaming, yelling, swearing, sarcasm, humiliation, exaggerating your flaws, and making fun of you in front of others, including your children and other people she’s not intimidated by. Verbal assault is another form of bullying, and bullies only act like this in front of those whom they don’t fear or people who let them get away with their bad behavior.
Result: Your self-confidence and sense of self-worth all but disappear. You may even begin to believe the horrible things she says to you.
4) Gaslighting. “I didn’t do that. I didn’t say that. I don’t know what you’re talking about. It wasn’t that bad. You’re imagining things. Stop making things up.” If the woman you’re involved with is prone to Borderline or Narcissistic rage episodes, in which she spirals into outer orbit, she may very well not remember things she’s said and done. However, don’t doubt your perception and memory of events. They happened and they are that bad.
Result: Her gaslighting behavior may cause you to doubt your own sanity. It’s crazy-making behavior that leaves you feeling confused, bewildered, and helpless.
5) Unpredictable responses. Round and round and round she goes. Where she’ll stop, nobody knows. She reacts differently to you on different days or at different times. For example, on Monday, it’s ok for you to Blackberry work email in front of her. On Wednesday, the same behavior is “disrespectful, insensitive, you don’t love me, you’re a self-important jerk, you’re a workaholic.” By Friday, it could be okay for you to Blackberry again.
Telling you one day that something’s alright and the next day that it’s not is emotionally abusive behavior. It’s like walking through a landmine in which the mines shift location.
Result: You’re constantly on edge, walking on eggshells, and waiting for the other shoe to drop. This is a trauma response. You’re being traumatized by her behavior. Because you can’t predict her responses, you become hypervigilant to any change in her mood or potential outburst, which leaves you in a perpetual state of anxiety and possibly fear. It’s a healthy sign to be afraid of this behavior. It’s scary. Don’t feel ashamed to admit it.
6) Constant Chaos. She’s addicted to conflict. She gets a charge from the adrenaline and drama. She may deliberately start arguments and conflict as a way to avoid intimacy, to avoid being called on her bull****, to avoid feeling inferior or, bewilderingly, as an attempt to avoid being abandoned. She may also pick fights to keep you engaged or as a way to get you to react to her with hostility, so that she can accuse you of being abusive and she can play the victim. This maneuver is a defense mechanism called projective identification.
Result: You become emotionally punch drunk. You’re left feeling dazed and confused, not knowing which end is up. This is highly stressful because it also requires you to be hypervigilant and in a constant state of defense for incoming attacks.
7) Emotional Blackmail. She threatens to abandon you, to end the relationship, or give you the cold shoulder if you don’t play by her rules. She plays on your fears, vulnerabilities, weaknesses, shame, values, sympathy, compassion, and other “buttons” to control you and get what she wants.
Result: You feel manipulated, used, and controlled.
8 Rejection. She ignores you, won’t look at you when you’re in the same room, gives you the cold shoulder, withholds affection, withholds sex, declines or puts down your ideas, invitations, suggestions, and pushes you away when you try to be close. After she pushes you as hard and as far away as she can, she’ll try to be affectionate with you. You’re still hurting from her previous rebuff or attack and don’t respond. Then she accuses you of being cold and rejecting, which she’ll use as an excuse to push you away again in the future.
Result: You feel undesirable, unwanted, and unlovable. You believe no one else would want you and cling to this abusive woman, grateful for whatever scraps of infrequent affection she shows you.
9) Withholding affection and sex. This is another form of rejection and emotional blackmail. It’s not just about sex, it’s about withholding physical, psychological, and emotional nurturing. It includes a lack of interest in what’s important to you–your job, family, friends, hobbies, activities–and being uninvolved, emotionally detached or shut down with you.
Result: You have a transactional relationship in which you have to perform tasks, buy her things, “be nice to her,” or give into her demands in order to receive love and affection from her. You don’t feel loved and appreciated for who you are, but for what you do for her or buy her.
10) Isolating. She demands or acts in ways that cause you to distance yourself from your family, friends, or anyone that would be concerned for your well-being or a source of support. This typically involves verbally trashing your friends and family, being overtly hostile to your family and friends, or acting out and starting arguments in front of others to make it as unpleasant as possible for them to be around the two of you.
Result: This makes you completely dependent upon her. She takes away your outside sources of support and/or controls the amount of interaction you have with them. You’re left feeling trapped and alone, afraid to tell anyone what really goes on in your relationship because you don’t think they’ll believe you.
You don’t have to accept emotional abuse in your relationship. You can get help or you can end it. Most emotionally abusive women don’t want help. They don’t think they need it. They are the professional victims, bullies, narcissists, and borderlines. They’re abusive personality types and don’t know any other way to act in relationships.
Life is too short to spend one more second in this kind of relationship. If your partner won’t admit she has a problem and agree to get help, real help, then it’s in your best interest to get support, get out, and stay out

10 Signs Your Girlfriend or Wife is an Emotional Bully « A Shrink for Men
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:41 PM   #185 (permalink)
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Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy: The Support Thread

I think the most difficult thing in all of this, is that she constantly states that I am the emotional abuser and uses the same things in this list to describe that to me in my behaviors. It leaves to believe that I am the reason for all our problems.

I have start scheduling my own therapy appointment and hopefully that will start to shed some light on things.

This is all very difficult to take in which is why I wonder if I need to stop the NMMNG approach until I can properly evaluate the situation more fully.

Thoughts?
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:55 PM   #186 (permalink)
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This is all very difficult to take in which is why I wonder if I need to stop the NMMNG approach until I can properly evaluate the situation more fully.

Thoughts?
I think going to therapy is a very wise choice. I do indeed also agree that if you are unclear on, or uncomfortable with the NMMNG strategies, then you shouldnt be trying to force them ... especially if how your wife responds is increasing your anxiety.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:29 PM   #187 (permalink)
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Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy: The Support Thread

Words can have very very different definitions for the sex abuse//assault survivor. "Trust" doesn't mean what you might think. Start a new mode of discussion. Don't defend or explain yourself. Instead listen and question. Ask her specific questions probing deeper.

"You felt I violated trust when I talked to Joe?"

"What do you mean by violated trust?"

"What does trust mean or look like to you?"

The goal is to learn what and how she thinks. I believe you are going to be shocked and amazed at her answers if you approach conversations this way.

Also, yes you are an emotional abuse victim. You have a lot of research to do on the effects of sex assaul/aabuse. Start reading about how it affects women and how it affects marriages.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:47 PM   #188 (permalink)
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Default Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy: The Support Thread

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I think the most difficult thing in all of this, is that she constantly states that I am the emotional abuser and uses the same things in this list to describe that to me in my behaviors. It leaves to believe that I am the reason for all our problems.

I have start scheduling my own therapy appointment and hopefully that will start to shed some light on things.

This is all very difficult to take in which is why I wonder if I need to stop the NMMNG approach until I can properly evaluate the situation more fully.

Thoughts?
Abusers will almost always blame the victim. The difference is that she can't come up with real, specific examples. Just a feeling. Given her past, she probably never lets her go to the logic side - all about feelings to her. But feelings aren't necessarily reality. Clearly she is a basketcase and is miserable. But does that make it your fault?

If you are having this much trouble standing up for yourself, I won't tell you to continue your NMMNG homework WITH her; I will tell you to do it on your own. When you are around her, don't do anything to project yourself, but for all that's holy, DON'T GO BACKWARD AND GIVE IN.

Ok? Can you do that? You don't have to move forward until you're feeling stronger, but please don't do what I know you feel like doing - beg her to forgive you and promise her everything. You have come too far.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:59 PM   #189 (permalink)
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Just an interesting update:

My wife borrowed my car the other day because she wanted to take it to a specific place for my smog check. I forgot to take out the audio cds of the book and she discovered them and started listening to them.

When I got home, I got a whole mouthful on how I can be such a jerk to follow such a plan. She believes that the book is all about being machismo and self centered, that it encourages men to do circle jerks with one another and being narcisstic and in no way improves relationships with your significant other.

She doesn't believe any of the stories that the author tells are true, and questions his credentials because she read somewhere that he tells people he has a Phd that he got from some women's college in Texas when he really doesn't.

I explained to her that I was just trying to do something that can improve our relationship and I said I wasn't sure if it was going to be successful but thought I should at least try. I then offered if there is a book she thought I should read, I would gladly try that. She obviously didn't have an answer, but just found another way to cut me down and deepen her mistrust in the marriage.

So kinda of funny but yet another frustrating hurdle in my personal growth. Everyone was right about telling her. I would have been damned anyway from the start if I had mentioned that I was reading it.

Does anybody know anything to the claims she gave over the author's experience?
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:44 PM   #190 (permalink)
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Does anybody know anything to the claims she gave over the author's experience?
Doesn't mean a blessed thing even if every word were true.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:21 AM   #191 (permalink)
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Write out 1,000 times …

I do these things for me and for me alone. These things are mine, they belong to me, I own them 100 percent.

See if it sinks in. And read up about boundaries because you sure as heck need to learn how to protect yourself from such a very aggressive woman.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:43 PM   #192 (permalink)
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Great thread!

We were getting ready for a fancy date last weekend, when I drove out to visit her (she's a few hundred miles away for the summer).

I came into her room wearing slacks and a dress shirt. She said "Oh, you're getting all dressed up...I guess I'll change out of this more casual dress I was going to wear..." I said "Oh, no, I'll change." Etc.

And then it sort of spiraled out of control, as she got testier and testier out of absolutely nowhere. Lots of subtle insults aimed at me and so forth.

Finally, I said "I'm not going to argue over something as silly as this. You can be as angry as you want, but I'm withdrawing from the discussion. That's the plan from here on out: if I feel disrespected, I will disengage and we can talk again when you calm down."

Now, for a while now, my way of coping with her possibly BPD-related anger has been to get defensive and plead-y. I think this surprised the crap out of her. There was much gnashing of teeth for about 20 minutes.

And then... she was more into me than she's been in a very, very long time. And like that for the rest of the weekend.

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Old 07-17-2012, 09:42 PM   #193 (permalink)
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I came into her room wearing slacks and a dress shirt. She said "Oh, you're getting all dressed up...I guess I'll change out of this more casual dress I was going to wear..." I said "Oh, no, I'll change." Etc.
That was you error. This is similar to the "Where do you want to eat.." merry go round. Your the alpha, let her conform. She said she would change, let her. She might have liked you dressed up. Assume what your doing is correct unless someone objects. You can then privately decide for yourself if you were wrong or right. The spot I want to eat is where we are going unless she has an objection then you can re-evaluate. I'm surprised home many times she doesn't object.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:19 AM   #194 (permalink)
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Thanks, MrHappy.
You're very right!
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:35 AM   #195 (permalink)
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Thank you tuernera for posting those abusive material. It made me think that my wife is SLIGHTLY - really, not that bad but still slightly abusive.

No more mr. nice guy helps me greatly! More and more I do not take any abuse from her.

Funny. Her friend just filed for divorce after 10 years of being married to a physically abusive husband. I told her that in a way, if she was a strong woman, the first time she got hit she should have said "you touch me one more time and I call police and you get the hell out of here." Of course instead she blamed herself for not making sure he is always happy.

As a nice guy, we are all so "abusive enablers". We let our wives step on us, yell, curse, accuse, and we just take it all. We shouldn't!

I see much improvement in my own marriage, but as I wrote few times, I don't know if I'd be fully able to love her till she realize that she has that issue.
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