Not exactly what I meant, but I'll roll with it. So...give that you understand that she is the way she is because you aided and abetted it, what's your next step? What do you think needs to happen now?
Well, it seems obvious that I need to speak about these feelings that you are mentioning now, or else it's always going to be this rollercoaster ride for both of us.
I know I need to stop being the emotional crux for her. I'm sure she is so damaged from everything in her life now and in the past, but I can only simply speak my feelings about myself and hope that she understands.
Right. I just worry because you seem SO tuned into her happiness, as though if she expresses displeasure, your first instinct is to just in and figure out how to make her happy again.
Are you capable of just looking at her when she says 'you weren't there for me' and not asking how to make it up to her?
To me personally, it's about reclaiming the feelings that I have about things and actually speaking up about them rather than just going along with what others think is best or trying to convince me what is good for me.
To that extent, this is probably how I got myself in this situation in the first place. I wasn't communicative about my needs, eventually got pushed back because someone else felt differently about it, then told me I am supposed to feel that way too and just accepted that how it should be.
I have never been confident in my feelings and it will probably take a lot more work to even get to the point, but I have to try or I am going to be walked over for the rest of my life and find myself I am in a place that I don't want to be.
The NUTs book says to Express but don't defend you feelings. I think that's right. First recognize the difference between a feeling and an emotion. A feeling is an emotion with insight. Just being angry is an emotion. Think about why you're angry first. Then express it. But it's YOUR feeling. She doesn't have to agree with it or like it. You have a right to it, just as she has a right to her feelings. There's nothing to be gained from trying to force people to agree with your feelings by arguing.
Are you capable of just looking at her when she says 'you weren't there for me' and not asking how to make it up to her?
I believe I could do the looking part, but then she will require some sort of answer and then I can either be the NMMNG and maybe say something like: "Your feelings are warranted and valid, but I can't be there to solve all of your problems. I have my needs and feelings too.'"
Is that more along the lines of NMMNG response? Otherwise, she'll just keeping searching until I finally do say something like: "I do understand and will try to be more aware of your needs in the future"
I believe I could do the looking part, but then she will require some sort of answer and then I can either be the NMMNG and maybe say something like: "Your feelings are warranted and valid, but I can't be there to solve all of your problems. I have my needs and feelings too.'"
"Your feelings are warranted?"
Argh!
lol
Ok, pretend you're a girl. I know you guys do it, you can't deny. Pretend you're a girl and answer back with some sissy response, not an all-male one. What would that look like?
"Honey, I just KNOW you must be hurtin', it must be SO awful to feel that way! Now what do you want to do about it?"
Something like that. A little more syrup and honey and a little less Mac truck.
Bottom line, say how you feel but NEVER EVER EVER admit or agree to anything. Ok? Validate all you can. That must be so hard. It must be scary to see me change. I can't imagine how confused you are. Stuff like that.
When she tries to corner you and pin you down to admitting your guilt - and she WILL - THEN you step back and put up the shield and say 'I'll have to think about it.'
Otherwise, she'll just keeping searching until I finally do say something like: "I do understand and will try to be more aware of your needs in the future"
LET HER SEARCH. Let her dig. Let her moan. Let her accuse. Let her pull out every guilt card she's been hoarding on you for as long as she's known you, just for this occasion.
Remain silent.
Then let her yell. And she will.
At THAT point, you VERY CALMLY stand up, walk to the door, hold it open for her to leave, and wait. Silently.
Come to think of it, you may want to set up your video recorder on a shelf somewhere. If you don't have one, stop on the way home and get a voice recorder and keep it running. You are going to make her so mad that she is likely to start throwing things. And if that doesn't work to make you Change Back! into what you were before, her next step will be to call the police and report that you were abusing her. Keep it recorded.
LET HER SEARCH. Let her dig. Let her moan. Let her accuse. Let her pull out every guilt card she's been hoarding on you for as long as she's known you, just for this occasion.
Remain silent.
Then let her yell. And she will.
At THAT point, you VERY CALMLY stand up, walk to the door, hold it open for her to leave, and wait. Silently.
There is much power in the phrase, "I'm not ok with that"
And just leave it there.
She will be convinced of nothing. And, why the urge to reason with an unreasonable person? How many times has that worked?
I am not currently doing IC. Long ago, when we first got married we started counseling together to deal with things we were going through with my family. Then when we first separated I went back to this therapist to start working on the issues.
In the end, my wife felt it was not working and couldn't continue to afford it, so I stopped.
Since then, I have gone to numerous sessions with her therapist and done a couple of MC sessions together.
The last one we went to a couple months ago basically said I was depressed and needed to do my own IC. Again, we don't really have the money to make that work so I am kind of stuck and have to try work on things on my own.
I actually have never thought of the shame issue, but since I started reading NMMNG, I am sure it stems somewhere in childhood and family. Just can't pinpoint an exact instance where I it could have come from
Go to United Way and see if they can help you find someone on a sliding fee scale that you can afford.
If you have toxic shame, it is going to be HARD for you to stand up to her because you have an innate belief that you are flawed and everyone else deserves more than you. That is hard stuff to work through. Look up toxic shame.
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Re: No More Mr. Nice Guy: The Support Thread 
