MWIL, is there anything you can think of that you haven't tried? Sounds like you have tried an awful lot over the years. Maybe the one thing you haven't tried it the one thing that's the answer? I don't know what that might be, that's why I asked if there are some things you can think of that you haven't tried?
MWIL, is there anything you can think of that you haven't tried? Sounds like you have tried an awful lot over the years. Maybe the one thing you haven't tried it the one thing that's the answer? I don't know what that might be, that's why I asked if there are some things you can think of that you haven't tried?
I honestly don't know at this point except leave--haven't tried that!
I have an appointment to speak with his Mental Health counselor on Monday morning.
I will be asking flat-out when I get home tonight if he wants to divorce. If he says yes, then so be it.
It can be done in an emotionally charged way! But you’re just as likely to withdraw it if done when high on emotions like you will be this evening.
I guess you know you are on the Victim Triangle? You are playing a magnificent role of the Rescuer and of course your husband is the Victim. But you too will also feel like a Victim in all this. The only thing I don’t reckon you’ve done is play the role of the Persecutor and sought your “revenge”. That’s one way of getting your self off the triangle. It happens at super quick, lightening speed and it’s “over”.
Another way is with boundaries. You make separation and divorce your boundary from his abusive behaviour. As such you see a lawyer, get your plans drawn up and present him with the papers with dates and all.
He will then know you are Very Serious. At this stage he may make all sorts of promises (or not). Whatever. You keep going all the way through with the divorce.
If you actually witness great changes in behaviour then you may indeed delay or cancel the divorce. But that will be based on his changes and a decision by you to be taken some time in the future.
I then got so frustrated that I got up and tried to talk to him about what was going on. Why has it been five months and you haven’t touched me. Why are you on the computer looking at porn everyday but yet you won’t come near me. I explained that I tried to be patient, tried to give him space and it’s not working and I don’t know what else to do. He then responded I don’t want to try anymore. So I flat out asked him, do you not love me anymore—wouldn’t answer; do you want me to leave—answered, well if that’s what you want to do; asked him if he wanted a divorce and got “sure, yeah, ok, whatever you want.”
It’s obvious from his answers that he has checked out of the marriage emotionally. But yet, wasn’t firm in his answer that he wanted it over—that seemed wishy-washy to me
Sounds like passive aggressive behaviour to me.
If that's it,then from my experience its difficult to deal with,and may need a professional. Sometimes certain types of trauma can trigger it.
That's my opinion.
Major stress. You backed off. You did things I have done... stopped saying ILY, no more sex, no more hugs, cuddles. My H did the same thing. Just accepted it. And didn't move in either direction, never brought it up. You ceased fire on the whole relationship... and he simply "checked out" himself.
I anticipate the same result for myself, if my H was even able to participate, which he is not due to depression and anxiety.
He's NOT capable of participating, fighting, bringing things up.
That is different than being emotionally healthy and just going along for the ride and waiting for YOU to pull the plug. Don't know where your H is at, or which one he is doing.
As an alternative... what if you approached it with a plan to re-connect? Go to counselling, etc. If he said NO to that, that might be clearer than someone who doesn't want to say " I want a divorce" . which means the same thing as saying NO to working on things, in the end.
Sounds like passive aggressive behaviour to me.
If that's it,then from my experience its difficult to deal with,and may need a professional. Sometimes certain types of trauma can trigger it.
That's my opinion.
I agree with you wholeheartedly on this one.
I believe he is passive-aggressive and always has been. Has just been more evident since all of his physical and mental disabilities.
I really thought about some things on my long drive home last night and came to a couple of head-on conclusions that weren't real pretty.
I AM part of the problem. My emotions have been all over the place for the last few years and I have contributed to the state of my marriage right now. Now, my husband isn't blameless--but neither am I and the only one I'm responsible for is ME.
While I "believe" I have been the doting, supportive wife. I also have come to recognize that I've been the "picky, *****y, naggy, what about me" wife too and it's obvious that my frustration and anger over my situation has affected the way I behave and treat my husband.
Now mind you, I understand that he has a part in this too - but I've been in denial too long about my part and have put myself firmly in the martyr role for far too long. It's like someone else said on their earlier post--the victim role.
I've changed and not for the good. I may look like the woman he married, but I'm not. I'm not his friend. Hell, I'm not even his lover at this point, I sound like his enemy.
I think I'm mad at him for what's happened to our marriage. The TBI, the stroke, all the medical issues, all the mental issues. All the things that are not his fault--I've been subsconciously making him pay for my life not turning out like I anticipated.
And none of THAT is his fault.
So with this new mindset, when I got home I explained to him that I was sorry. I was not the wife he deserved or wanted and for that I was sorry. I was sorry for all the mean things I said that morning. My emotions have been out of control for a while and I've done nothing to get them under control, except to justify why they were out of control (again--his fault).
I remembered something my husband said last year. He was talking about a counselling session he had with his doctor and mentioned to me that he told him that I was calm and nice to be around most of the time, but when I went off, I went ape-**** and it actually scared him because it was like I was crazy. I blew it off at the time and thought--he's crazy.
But after looking back over MY behavior on Friday morning - he's right. I was following him around, yelling, coming up with any cutting remark I could think of, you name it--out of control.
Neither one of us mentioned the word DIVORCE when I got home last night, but he did say he couldn't live with me this way any longer. That he had enough stress and issues with trying to think, walk and talk and that I was adding to that stress and that I was supposed to be the one that was helping him, not making it worse.
And he's right--dammit - he's right.
So--he mentioned several times that one of us needed to move--but he had been drinking (probably because I made him feel 1 inch tall that morning) and most of what he says when he's drinking he doesn't even remember due to his brain damage.
We both did realize that neither of us could move now as we had nowhere to go, too many things joined together and the house will take another month or so before it's even complete to even consider ever selling it.
I went to bed early, he followed later and in the middle of the night, pulled me to him, kissed me and held me. He does love me, he just doesn't like me and I can't blame him right now.
So, here's my plan:
- I love him and want to support him
- I'm not going to take any more disrespectful behavior
- I am meeting with the mental health counselor on Monday. I'm going to talk to him about us, and then about me and why my emotions are out of control and if I need additional therapy or medication therapy to get them under control
- I've made a list of where I need to improve, as a wife and a partner in this marriage
- I've made a list of where he needs to improve in his behavior towards me (my personal list--not a list for him, that's on him)
Instead of "thinking" I'm this great, supportive wife--I'm going to start acting/talking like one.
We had a nice Saturday--nice chit chat, respectful tone, like a couple of good friends. I even got a "good night" and a kiss good night.
So, we'll see how it works out. I'm no longer desperate, I'm going to do what's right to continue to fix me and then see what happens. My outward appearance reflects a more confident me, but my inner doesn't match.
I have a feeling that when I am more confident, more positive, more loving and nicer--things may change.
But sometimes marriages have the most dysfunctional dance moves and inter-dynamics ever and the partners, instead of working as a team just keep getting in each others way and stepping on one another’s feet causing a great deal of grief.
In longer term marriages the dysfunctional dynamics become more and more entrenched and need an intervention to clear things up. I was going to write to you about forgiveness, but I think resentment and aggressive acts of revenge (shet testing) is just one of the problems causing your marriage dance to be so utterly dysfunctional. Take a look at the following:
Session Topics
1. Building Strong Foundations – This session helps couples to look at their lifestyle and its effect upon their marriage, and to discover more about each other’s needs and desires – particularly on an emotional level.
2. The Art of Communication – Listening is a vital skill for a strong marriage. In this session couples practise communicating their feelings and listening effectively to one another.
3. Resolving Conflict – In this session we look at how couples can increase their intimacy by expressing appreciation to each other, recognising their differences, learning to negotiate disagreements and praying for each other (if they feel comfortable doing so).
4. The Power of Forgiveness – This session addresses the ways we will inevitably have hurt each other and how to resolve these so we don’t create a backlog of anger and resentment. We look at the process of healing through identifying the hurt, saying sorry and forgiving.
5. The Impact of Family – Past and Present – This session focuses on helping couples to recognise how their family background affects the way they relate to each other. They also consider how to build a good and healthy relationship with their parents, in-laws and wider family, and how hurt from childhood can be healed.
6. Good Sex – Sexual intimacy needs to be worked at and developed. It isn’t just the icing on the cake; it’s a vital ingredient of the cake itself. In this session couples are encouraged to talk about their sexual relationship and to recognise where they need to make changes.
7. Love in Action – This session looks at five ways of expressing love – through words, time, touch, presents and actions. Couples discover which expression of love is most important for their partner and how to put this into practice.
If your husband wont go, then take that as a massive sign that he’s very very comfortable with how things are right now and will never change. It wont matter how much you change if he wont. He has to get on the dance floor with you and learn the new steps such that love has a chance in your marriage and you start working with each other as a team and not against each other as enemies.
Don't blame yourself, I'm dealing with this same nonsense only from my wife. You have to let him go. That doesn't mean in the sense of "let him leave you", it means you have to become strong in yourself. I havent been able to do it yet myself, it is easier to give advice than to follow it.
But sometimes marriages have the most dysfunctional dance moves and inter-dynamics ever and the partners, instead of working as a team just keep getting in each others way and stepping on one another’s feet causing a great deal of grief.
In longer term marriages the dysfunctional dynamics become more and more entrenched and need an intervention to clear things up. I was going to write to you about forgiveness, but I think resentment and aggressive acts of revenge (shet testing) is just one of the problems causing your marriage dance to be so utterly dysfunctional. Take a look at the following:
Session Topics
1. Building Strong Foundations – This session helps couples to look at their lifestyle and its effect upon their marriage, and to discover more about each other’s needs and desires – particularly on an emotional level.
2. The Art of Communication – Listening is a vital skill for a strong marriage. In this session couples practise communicating their feelings and listening effectively to one another.
3. Resolving Conflict – In this session we look at how couples can increase their intimacy by expressing appreciation to each other, recognising their differences, learning to negotiate disagreements and praying for each other (if they feel comfortable doing so).
4. The Power of Forgiveness – This session addresses the ways we will inevitably have hurt each other and how to resolve these so we don’t create a backlog of anger and resentment. We look at the process of healing through identifying the hurt, saying sorry and forgiving.
5. The Impact of Family – Past and Present – This session focuses on helping couples to recognise how their family background affects the way they relate to each other. They also consider how to build a good and healthy relationship with their parents, in-laws and wider family, and how hurt from childhood can be healed.
6. Good Sex – Sexual intimacy needs to be worked at and developed. It isn’t just the icing on the cake; it’s a vital ingredient of the cake itself. In this session couples are encouraged to talk about their sexual relationship and to recognise where they need to make changes.
7. Love in Action – This session looks at five ways of expressing love – through words, time, touch, presents and actions. Couples discover which expression of love is most important for their partner and how to put this into practice.
If your husband wont go, then take that as a massive sign that he’s very very comfortable with how things are right now and will never change. It wont matter how much you change if he wont. He has to get on the dance floor with you and learn the new steps such that love has a chance in your marriage and you start working with each other as a team and not against each other as enemies.
Thanks AFEH, I'll check it out.
Sounds very interesting and you're right, we have a lot of issues. I see one in particular on your list that has a lot to do with how he behaves--his childhood and what happened between his parents and to all their children (he has 4 brothers and sisters) - a very dysfunctional family--all the siblings have troubles with relationships and all have substance abuse issues. In fact, out of all 5 children, only two have a relationship with each other, that's my husband and his brother--his brother has been married 4 times and is currently married and has a girlfriend and going through divorce #4--they made it less than 2 years.
My husband said to me last year the reason he hadn't given up on our marriage was because he didn't want to be a failure like his brothers and sisters, he wanted to have a successful long-term relationship and that's why he kept trying. He didn't want to be like them. So he has the right mind-set, just believe we've both been going about it the wrong way.
Things have been really peaceful this weekend. I've had to pull back on the over-the-top me (I like to talk a lot--no surprise there I'm sure), and it's something he can't handle anymore with all the mumbo-jumbo in his brain. I kept thinking he was just trying to change me and I'm realizing that he's changed and in turn, I must also if I want this marriage to work. Things ARE NOT the same and as much as I try to beat and bully them into being the same - it just isn't going to happen.
It has taken me almost 4 years since his TBI to finally accept that things will never be the same, he will never be the same man I married. I've been so stupid just waiting for the change--that things WOULD go back to where they were if I wished it enough and tried to force that square peg into that round hole.
I had been told by my own counselor and my husband that I just hadn't and wouldn't accept the new "normal." That until I did I was going to continue to be unsatisfied and feel unfulfilled until I accepted the change in my marriage and worked within the confines of those changes.
And I didn't--I've been a big part of the last 4 years of dysfunction.
And I KNOW that it takes two to tango--but the person I'm tango'ing with isn't the person that pulled me out on the dance floor to start. And that is MY fault. He has adjusted his steps, but I didn't adjust mine with him and now we're both out of synch and no longer those smooth dance partners we were in the past (to use your dance metaphor).
And I can make that change ON MY PART. He's been willing, he's said so, but he's tired and just wants to have peace. He's giving up and I don't want to give up.
So I'm going to try my best to change ME. Just ME, he's responsible for changing him. I truly believe once I'm "in step" with him that things between us, while changed, will be familiar again.
Thanks again--I'll check it out--my husband is, most of the time, willing to try counselling--he has in the past and is in counselling himself but I believe it's too soon to bring it up again as he's a big resentful over some of the things I said on Friday.
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Re: I Need Help Desperately! 
