The real Question I think people need to ask is who taught me all this stuff , and why did i believe it ..Mommy I really apreciate you trying to understand me , But you all continue to use words like , BAD,GOOD,NEGATIVE,POSITVE,GOOD THING, BAD THING, this is all based on opinion ,which are based by feelings, which are triggered by Knowledge obtained. That knowledge being taught by some individual(person) which was taught by another . and so on and so on .its traditional way of looking at it ...
No man can tell a man what is good for him under the sun , Man is a misdirected creature how can he direct another? all that selfish stuff Dobo , well i think Mommy explained it . Hopefully you understand why you go to work everyday, for something in return ,Thus is self seeking,self preserving , and makes you selfish. These words Beg for definition . "LOVE CAN BE A BEAUTIFULL THING " define beutifull without using your taught knowledge? I will leave with a verse from 1 Cor 8:2 And if any man thinketh he knoweth anything, He knoweth NOTHING as he ought to know .. I would have to conclude this apostle Paul knew very well what I am talking about ..Before anyone can truly ever really know what Love is your gonna have to discard everything you once been taught and become as a child again , you can ram your fingers towars a new born baby's eye and they wont blink ..Why ? Because There is no fear within yet because there is no Knowledge yet ..
And becuase the baby has no knowledge yet - it depends on its mother to feed it, clothe it, nurture it (Love) - otherwise it dies. You see, the love that you are proclaiming is just an illusion is the same way - it's part of our human condition. What you are spewing here is similer in orwells 1984; a society with thought processes like yours where love, art, literature, MUSIC is portrayed by the "Party" as non-conducive to society - Read the book it will help you understand a world devoid of love. So, I think you are trying to raise an argumentive point on a forum that is full of people who are caring and loving and want to try to save something that is sacred and meaningful to them and that they have put significant sacrifice into becuase they have felt and experienced Love - they are all caring individuals with human faults. Also, since you are quoting the Bible so often, it might help if you learn about the teachings of Jesus - ALL OF IT IS ABOUT LOVE. I am sorry that you don't seem to understand the concept of commitment to another person and the JOY that it can bring, you will miss out on a lot in your life. I think you need counseling more than anyone on this forum.
I agree with your post Brighterlight. The teachings of Jesus are ALL about love. Until one can really open themselves up to the love of WHATEVER higher power they personally believe in, they cannot understand what it is to love THEMSELVES or another person.
MBUCK, you sound totally and completely LOST, though I am sure you will argue with me on that point. What you say reminds me of things I heard from someone else, when they were just as lost and hurt as you. You are trying to intellectualize the things that you cannot understand, to justify somehow the things you feel. You feel these things, because you will not ALLOW yourself to feel anything else. I agree, you need counseling, but until YOU see you need counseling, it would be useless.
Lost and confused you dont seem so lost to me. that was damn near on the mark.. What is all this Study Jesus and Love stuff ..God is lvoe and jesus was the word that came from Love and became Flesh. He is Love in the flesh ..no one ever doubted love..this thread has taken a turn toward emotions . is this the mens clubhouse seems like alot of women in here commenting . a woman will probably never understand what im talkin about thats why I came to the Mens clubhouse... people are Crucifying me as if i Liveby this mentality although i know it exist i dont Live by all these things i am just openminded enough to see that marriage can be a doube edged sword..its funny because alot of what i speak jacques ellul Had seen the same thing and wrote many books about it , the difference between Fatih and belief, see. whiles belief's can be fashioned by feeling's emotions, knowledge, theory;s etc. Faith hinges on simply Knowing that you dont know anything and God knows all , Faith is active when YOU ARE NOT ..It takes a way different stace .although they called Jaques ellul an anarchist for his veiws I beleive he simply undertood this , Beleif is the Key concensus to which we look for communal Life , but thats its purpose , However Black isnt black unless we as a whole come to an agreement that it's black, that it will be established as that color.. I can see i have Made some angry as I expected.contrary to popular opinion.
I really honestly Love my wife , she's not a problem ..she Loves the hell out of me... well I guess I will take my jargin elsewhere , because as one commenter said i am just here to destroy marriages and brainwash people..thanks for the content everyone ..really appreciated the input.
"the stuff abouth growth ..the only growth in this world that isnt done in vain is that towards God. jer:17-9 The heart of man is deceitfull above all things and desperatly wicked who can know it .?" Interesting...because God is a HUGE fan of marriage. Don't believe me, believe Him. It's in his book. Also, we are capable of both fully hating and loving because we have choice, and we're fallen creatures. That being said: Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”
Im starting to question whether or not people are supposed to be with eachother for desperatly Long periods of time .. Think about all the oppurtunities you let pass by not being able to socialize freely and interact in soceity the way a single person could . all because of a teaching that was traditionally passed down ..something tells me we set our own lives up, and constrict ourselfs with our selfish knowledge, Men/women owning eachother , call it what you want But Job's, companies, and damn near everything in this world requires a contract of somesort ..for one purpose ,,to ensure that they recieve "THERE" end of the agreement ..and if they dont ..They can Hold you accountable with the signature next to an X ..If true love is true love why do you need a contract unless there is doubt or sum form of conceived suspicion that the person may not fully comply.. This can easily be translated as a form of manipulation or bribery but covered up by the word Love..
Lost, his statement here reads to me like he is not for marriage..but like you say, I could be wrong. Read his comment about about "manipulation" or "bribery". All I know is that 35 years ago I fell in love with my wife at age 14. We dated until we were 20 and have been married for 30 years; I don't think mbuck would understand what I felt for her back then and even now, but I can guaran-damn-tee you it wasn't a contract agreement. As a matter of fact, he is almost eluding to a pre-nuptual agreement - ahh, well, just in case it doesn't work out.
I think he is conflicted or not too clear to me what he is eluding to becuase christianity is pro marriage; but then he calls it bribery or manipulation. See lastinline's last post.
I think what Buck is saying (and please forgive me because I could be SO VERY wrong) is that even though he acknowledges the thoughts he expresses when he asks questions about marriage and love, etc, is that HE himself believes in marriage. Even though he can see the pitfalls that lie therein, he still believes.
Again, I'm not sure, but that's what I "think" he's been saying. He just wonders if anyone else has seen the difficulties to be overcome and the irony in the contrasting emotions involved between two people who tie theirselves together in the most binding of ways. Is it possible he's trying to get us to come to some consensus? idk, I may be a reaching here
Just my $0.02.
This guy is definetly in the money ..Well Like i said if it was true Love why did you sign a contract then ? Couldnt it have been verbal (the vows were)..but because there was a form of document that meant that there was doubt involved on someones part and thus assurance was given through a written Legal agreement to further Hold accountabilty in the event of a default.. I have went through the motions of marriage and the rest , however I fully understand that a written document does not in no way bind me to my wife , But my written document on my heart, this can be seen in my actions.
We as Modern day traditionalized people, can very well be found having our hand held through this life by someone we are far from assured if their knowlege or teaching is anywhere accurate to truth ex.(the president and the likes of )we rely on mans definetion of marriage before we will ever rely on God's true definetion, and while God is all for marriage we dont really know the true definetion he meant because we rely on the preachers defintion without even consulting God through revelation , The same thing the Isrealites did in the wildernes they sent Moses ..why ? Go ye up the Mountain Moses and speak to God FOR US lest we Die and he consume us " never once seeking truth , in order to recieve revelation from God its proven that one must first discard of the earthly Bs he has once been forcefed, and seek a higher knowledge in spirtual things , Yes , I myself also thought I knew and had it all figured out until I met God and realized , how utterly foolish that notion was..
Funny how this way of thinking can be so much of a threat to some ..most of us ignorantly defend our own bondage, all the while like pinochio dancing aroung singing 'There are no strings on me " Funny how satan can have so many in bondage , wool over their eyes , truly believing they are free.. (speaking in general no offense)
dont forget to quote the apostle paul when he warns .."the time is short those who have wives ought be as thoough they had none.." You can Quote this marriage stuff allday and yes God is all for it because of course The church(body of people) are the bride of Christ and ought be showered in Love as the Father showers the son.
please spare me on the Government requires the Marriage documents, while this is true , ask yourself why? if this is about you,your spouse, and God, ????? shines a new light I suppose , Me and my wife got married in my bedroom on our knees, Best choice I made in my life going to before God first , because of my hunger and desire to know the mechanics of marriage ..God granted & revealed plenty, i know i do not know it all far from it. But God does.
A marriage ought reflect your relatonship with God , and if you have a relationship with God he will reveal this through revalation if you ask..Gotta run be back later .......***** exits as another bomb explodes****
Well, my vows were verbal (in church, in front of family and friends) and if I was not "required" to sign the state marriage license, I would'nt have. So if that is what you are talking about, the state/government requirements, then I digress - I agree with you. But it looks like from your post you are talking about a lifelong commitment being a pipe dream, which to mant, it is not.
Not trying to pin it to legalities LOST" just pointing out that this is what it becomes the moment someone gets a wild hair up their behind, and decides they no longer want to uphold there end of this agreement..Love dissapears in mid -air ,and say hello to your worst enemy "your spouse" ..Just read these threads ..one person sees marriage as a joint effort , and sincerly give themselves to the other , while the other maliciously see's pure benefit ,
The truth is .in every marriage there will be someone receiving more than they are giving ,and vice versa, occasionally ,the though of self pops up in there mind ,and begin feeling as if they deserve more than they are recieving ,Just like a job if they dont feel as if they are receiving what they have given to the comapny in return ,,they may just go elsewhere and leave you (the commited ,sincere, person) in the mudd. No dont go through your life in fear of this happeneing ..however if it does dont be so shocked ,thats all I am saying ..dont build on something without a solid foundation. and trust me you ..there are many on this site that have, and are experiencing rear of its ugly head..there are two sides of marriage ,not everyones heart is choosing heads..there are those considering tails.. All I am saying is dont get so Caught up in the dream that you forgot reality of this world still exist outside of marriage , PEOPLE GET MARRIED THEY DONT GET SAVED ...therefore the evil within is still just as present as it was before the happy little ceremony ,,even roses die ..Ive seen Marriage turn people worse and also turn people better , but you will never know its true impact until the end . and who knows that ? because happy can turn sad in the blink of an eye , and nothing in this world is eternal.. people arent good inning of themselves .they have no idea what good is. they draw there own definition and live by it ..Jeremiah 17:9 : there heart of man is deceitfull above all things and desperatly wicked WHO CAN KNOW IT ?? even man doesnt know the evil that lurks in his own heart ..the heart runs deeper than any ocean on earth ..Who can go that deep but God?
In answer to your question MBuck26, my thoughts on marriage and the mechanics are that Marriage is a big risk. Some people are meant for it, and others are not. I don't think that everyone gets married because it was what they were taught.
Everyone enters into a marriage for their own reasons and the mechanics aren't always the same. some people have open marriages, some agree to have needed separation periods, etc... Could it be that you have a generalized idea of what a marriage us "supposed" to be?
I think that a marriage is simply what the 2 people involved in it make it to be. You can choose to devote 50 years of your life to someone but you (i'm speaking in general here) must know that you are taking the risk of them leaving you in an instant and never knowing why. It's about trust. If you have a deep, genuine connection, and trust you will most likely have a happy and fulfilling marriage. BUT EVEN THEN, you still can not predict what someone will do. Marriage is a CHANCE, a RISK, A LEAP OF FAITH. And just like everything else in life, you will never be able to control anymore than your role in it.
I used to feel a lot like you did and I went to my parents and asked them "why do people marry?" Their answer (which I can only assume is THEIR reason for marrying) was, "because who wants to be alone for the rest of their life?"
I still am not sure it's a valid reason for marrying, but, fact is, it's THEIR reason. And they are willing to do whatever it takes and go through any amount of strife to be together for the rest of their lives.