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post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 02:21 PM
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Re: Hello, I'm new

Deidre-- I am curious about why you are getting married. I think, some questions I probably did not ask myself before I got married ( and I am guessing some of your friends and/or family didnt either). For instance, I dated her for two years, and it just seemed like time to get married type of thing. I did not consider some important stuff-- which you appear to be.

-Why are you marrying this person?

-Do you ever think you would be happier without this person?

-If you didnt marry this person, and he married someone else (at a later time, after your break up), would you be heart broken or would you be ok/happy for them?

-What sort of issues can you realistically see coming up in the marriage? (in laws, world view, beliefs, religion, or something more ominous-- a certain friend)

-What kind of person was this person before you met? Did he improve himself to keep you? (Looking back, I can see my wife did this, now that we are divorced I can see how she was before we were married and if I had known how she really is I would not have been attracted)

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post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 02:34 PM
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Re: Hello, I'm new

You might want to add Love Busters by Dr. Willard Harley to your and your husband's reading list. My husband commented that had we read that book at the beginning of our marriage, we could have avoided some hurtful situations. "Independent actions," or doing thing that affect the other spouse and the marriage cause a lot of hurt in marriages, in a lot of different areas of the marriage.

Our pre-marital counseling did not help us at all because it was too generalized. We we were so caught up in being in love that we thought we were perfect for each other. All the books recommended on your thread would have helped us much more had then existed 25 years ago.

I wish you the best in your marriage and in your life!

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post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hello, I'm new

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Originally Posted by MRR View Post
I am divorced, and found out a few days after I got the ILYBINILWY speech, through online phone records, that my ex had talked to another guy for an hour on the phone the day before our last marriage counseling session. Totally blindsided. She did not have an affair though after I started dating, she did go out on a date with the guy so it was definitely out of line for a married woman.
I'm sorry to read this. But the good news is, you found out and left the relationship. Online phone records are different, those are accessible, and not like rifling through someone's phone looking for info. This is my thing. IF IT GETS TO A POINT IN ONE'S RELATIONSHIP WHERE YOU FEEL THE NEED TO SNOOP THROUGH SOMEONE'S PHONE, BECAUSE YOU SUSPECT THEM OF CHEATING...your relationship is already to an unhealthy point. Even if you find NOTHING incriminating at all...the fact that one might feel the need to do something like that suggests a) the person is insecure b) the marriage isn't healthy, and the person is searching for answers as to why. Sometimes, the answers lie within us, and we need to look in the mirror as to why our relationships are 'failing.'

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Having said that, I do not know if I could ever ask for a partner's passwords, or if I would ever feel comfortable looking on her phone/emails etc. I feel like when I did it I was not even in my right mind. Even when I did do it, and I was right, it felt strange.
Exactly...because you feel like at that point, you are in something bad. If I need to turn into a private investigator lol I'm done with the guy, then. I'm not one of those women who hold onto a man's ankles who is effing other women. If my fiance wants to do this, those women are welcome to him. Call it pride...call it whatever, but no man is worth me sacrificing my dignity. And you should tell yourself the same, when it comes to women...no woman should ever cause you to compromise your self worth or values in order to hang onto her.

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Whether you two share passwords or not, I recommend that you and him become comfortable to bring up absolutely anything about any topic.
We do. We are open books, but we also don't believe in smothering one another. The sign of a healthy relationship to me, is when two people do the rights things for one another, without it being expected. If a person finds themselves in less than that type of a relationship, it's not time to snoop on phones and call a PI to follow them...it's rather time to end it. I don't want to change a man into something he isn't already. If a guy is a colossal jerk, and I discover that he is...I'm done with him. I'm not interested in sitting in a counseling session hoping and praying he becomes something other than the jerk he has shown himself to be. I've been reading some threads on here where spouses are groveling at the feet of their cheating spouses...hoping and praying that they give up effing the mailman/mailwoman...and choose them again. The problem I see with this thinking, is that people need more self respect. No one will respect you, if you don't respect yourself, first. I've learned that the hard way.

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You should be able to talk about any and everything. And be comfortable asking for things. Because what if you need to access his email or phone.

Everyone in our family have access to every password and everyone's account. It's the way we are, so it was not a problem for our kids to follow the same pattern.

Last I went on my H's phone to look at an email. I asked him if I could forward it to my email, he said why are you asking. You are my wife you can do what you want. I thought I was showing courtesy. But that's our mindset. We respect each other's privacy but have access.

Like someone on TAM said, in marriage there are no privacy. Expect when using the bathroom.

Might be something for you guys to talk about now @deidre.
I think that is great if this dynamic works in your relationship and home. But it seems like babysitting my fiance or something. I can't seem to see it any other way, honestly. lol

I disagree about the privacy comment, too. Marriage shouldn't cause two people to think they own one another. I can't help but think this will smother a relationship.

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Deidre-- I am curious about why you are getting married. I think, some questions I probably did not ask myself before I got married ( and I am guessing some of your friends and/or family didnt either). For instance, I dated her for two years, and it just seemed like time to get married type of thing. I did not consider some important stuff-- which you appear to be.

-Why are you marrying this person?
We love one another, and trust one another. I don't trust men too often, so to trust a man the way I do him, I feel that when he asked me to marry him, it made sense on a number of levels, but trust being a big one.

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-Do you ever think you would be happier without this person?
I don't really look for a man to make me happy, honestly. I used to think this way when I was an atheist, but I've returned to faith, and while I want to share my life with my fiance, he doesn't control my happiness. That said, a person can find themselves in a toxic relationship, and be very unhappy...but again, only if you let someone control your happiness.

Quote:
-If you didnt marry this person, and he married someone else (at a later time, after your break up), would you be heart broken or would you be ok/happy for them?
If we didn't work out, and down the road he married someone else...hmmm...I'd be happy for him, because that is true love. I would be sad if we ended now, because it would be surprising as I think we have an amazing thing going.

Quote:
-What sort of issues can you realistically see coming up in the marriage? (in laws, world view, beliefs, religion, or something more ominous-- a certain friend)
My avoidance of conflict. I have a hard time expressing when I'm upset, with anyone...not just with him...and tend to cut and run, as it's easier than confronting conflict. I'm getting better. As it relates to him...how we might raise kids together. He has very different ideas than I do about all that, and he is very traditional alpha...and I'm very much attracted to him for this reason, but at times...it can be...off putting. He is working on it. ^_^

Quote:
-What kind of person was this person before you met?
Extraordinarily independent. We both are, but we love being together, it feels effortless when we are together.

Quote:
Did he improve himself to keep you? (Looking back, I can see my wife did this, now that we are divorced I can see how she was before we were married and if I had known how she really is I would not have been attracted)
To keep me? Can you clarify?

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Originally Posted by IMFarAboveRubies View Post
You might want to add Love Busters by Dr. Willard Harley to your and your husband's reading list. My husband commented that had we read that book at the beginning of our marriage, we could have avoided some hurtful situations. "Independent actions," or doing thing that affect the other spouse and the marriage cause a lot of hurt in marriages, in a lot of different areas of the marriage.

Our pre-marital counseling did not help us at all because it was too generalized. We we were so caught up in being in love that we thought we were perfect for each other. All the books recommended on your thread would have helped us much more had then existed 25 years ago.

I wish you the best in your marriage and in your life!

IMFAR
Thank you so much for this, and we are open to suggestions. ''Independent actions''...can you elaborate as to what you mean? Did that occur in your marriage?

We don't expect to never hurt one another, we are human. But, we have laid out our deal breakers, as we both feel that if our quality of life erodes because of the marriage, then that means we need to really assess why we are staying married. We want a healthy marriage, not just to be married.

Last edited by *Deidre*; 02-09-2016 at 05:27 PM.
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post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 07:19 PM
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Re: Hello, I'm new

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Thank you so much for this, and we are open to suggestions. ''Independent actions''...can you elaborate as to what you mean? Did that occur in your marriage?
Yes, it did, several times.

Independent actions are when one spouse does something significant that impacts both couples, without the 100% agreement of the other spouse.

These examples did not all occur in my marriage, but they can all harm a marriage.

It can involve making plans, taking jobs, financial decisions, decisions about family (like stopping taking birth control without the other spouses knowledge), staying out with friends without the other spouses agreement, etc.
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post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hello, I'm new

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Yes, it did, several times.

Independent actions are when one spouse does something significant that impacts both couples, without the 100% agreement of the other spouse.

These examples did not all occur in my marriage, but they can all harm a marriage.

It can involve making plans, taking jobs, financial decisions, decisions about family (like stopping taking birth control without the other spouses knowledge), staying out with friends without the other spouses agreement, etc.
I agree with you. It is something I wonder about, if I'm honest, as sometimes, he will make plans for us both (like agrees for us both to attend a party), without asking if I'd be interested. It's not often, but sometimes. I tell him as well after I make plans to see a friend for dinner, without seeing first if he wanted to do something together. These are seemingly minor things now, but I guess they could become big things in a marriage.
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post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 07:38 PM
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Re: Hello, I'm new

If you get the book Love Busters, it will explain it better, and if you read it with your husband, he will see how making independent decisions that affect you can hurt your marriage over the years.
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post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 09:44 AM
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Re: Hello, I'm new

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To keep me? Can you clarify?

Ok, so my ex, when I met her it was long distance. She had a job where she occasionally worked outside the office-- 'home visits' they were called.

There were some indications that her, and her best work friends, would schedule these appointments for first thing in the morning and then either not go or be able to basically sleep in.

In short, she was lazy. But when we got together she didnt do that stuff. I realize now she made a concerted effort to hide this part of herself. When we were going through our divorce, I learned a lot more from HER friends that I didnt really know about her character before we were married.

Also, I have gone on a few dates with a girl who says her ex had a serious drinking problem, and everyone who knew him before they were married were aware of it, but she didnt really get it until they were married. His friends/family thought that he had 'settled down' so to speak due to more domesticated life, but in reality he had hidden it from her b/c he knew she most likely would not stay with him.


Thanks for your thoughtfulness in answering here. I know you think it is for you but it is great for others to see how you see yourself and your relationship too.
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post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 10:48 AM
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Re: Hello, I'm new

Hi Deidre and welcome to TAM!

About the password sharing thing, it isn't to snoop on a spouse. I have never snooped, nor has my husband! Heck if I ask him for something out of my handbag which is in another room he brings me the whole bag or something out of my wallet sitting on the counter he brings me the whole wallet!

We keep all of our passwords written in a spreadsheet, usernames, passwords, secret questions etc. just for safety and just in case.

I am a direct deposit kind of girl and my husband hated that and would rather take time when the bill comes in and pay it then, even on line so we compromised after co-mingling accounts and he would 'pay the bills'. Well, while he was hospitalized for a serious condition he had bills to pay and he only used a stand alone computer back then. So I had to get the log in names and passwords and make the payments on my iPad while sitting by his bedside (he was very seriously ill). He also could not get one of the passwords right and that had to be reset and all! I felt lost and a bit frustrated that he could have been unconscious and how would I do this? We decided then and there that we would start writing everything down in a safe place.

A few months after our ordeal a younger friend of mine husband died, he was not yet 40. Very sudden, clot to the lung and he was gone. What that girl went through trying to figure out his passwords and everything for banks, FB and all was just cruel I thought. Unfortunately, my young friend also found loans taken out for which she had no knowledge. She couldn't get into his account to even to make his car payment. I think, although not sure, it had to go to probate court or something and took weeks and lots of paperwork for her to get access to his assets for herself and their son. Things would have been much easier had she knowledge of his passwords.

Just as a side note, I have 3 sons. The two who share this kind of info have really good relationships and marriage. The one who doesn't is on his 2nd wobbly marriage.

So you see that password sharing is not just to snoop on a partner and shouldn't be seen that way. It is about trusting your spouse won't abuse the information and that in case of an emergency a spouse will know where to put their hands on crucial passwords.

This is what I and my husband consider as trusting one another.
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post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hello, I'm new

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Hi Deidre and welcome to TAM!

About the password sharing thing, it isn't to snoop on a spouse. I have never snooped, nor has my husband! Heck if I ask him for something out of my handbag which is in another room he brings me the whole bag or something out of my wallet sitting on the counter he brings me the whole wallet!

We keep all of our passwords written in a spreadsheet, usernames, passwords, secret questions etc. just for safety and just in case.

I am a direct deposit kind of girl and my husband hated that and would rather take time when the bill comes in and pay it then, even on line so we compromised after co-mingling accounts and he would 'pay the bills'. Well, while he was hospitalized for a serious condition he had bills to pay and he only used a stand alone computer back then. So I had to get the log in names and passwords and make the payments on my iPad while sitting by his bedside (he was very seriously ill). He also could not get one of the passwords right and that had to be reset and all! I felt lost and a bit frustrated that he could have been unconscious and how would I do this? We decided then and there that we would start writing everything down in a safe place.

A few months after our ordeal a younger friend of mine husband died, he was not yet 40. Very sudden, clot to the lung and he was gone. What that girl went through trying to figure out his passwords and everything for banks, FB and all was just cruel I thought. Unfortunately, my young friend also found loans taken out for which she had no knowledge. She couldn't get into his account to even to make his car payment. I think, although not sure, it had to go to probate court or something and took weeks and lots of paperwork for her to get access to his assets for herself and their son. Things would have been much easier had she knowledge of his passwords.

Just as a side note, I have 3 sons. The two who share this kind of info have really good relationships and marriage. The one who doesn't is on his 2nd wobbly marriage.

So you see that password sharing is not just to snoop on a partner and shouldn't be seen that way. It is about trusting your spouse won't abuse the information and that in case of an emergency a spouse will know where to put their hands on crucial passwords.

This is what I and my husband consider as trusting one another.
Thank you for the nice welcome!

Oh, these types of passwords, I can understand. But, why do I need my fiance's personal or work email passwords? Why do I need passwords on his FB account? I find that to be basically telling him...I don't trust you, babe...so, if I have your passwords, then you can't cheat on me.

Just isn't my way. Idk, just feels weird to me. To be honest, he has female friends and I have male friends and we are all friends with each other, and I don't need to see every text he's sending out, I trust that he doesn't flirt and hit on other women, and it would make me feel suspicious if I had to know his personal passwords to things. It will be funny if some day he asks me for them...I'll be like, have you joined TAM?
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post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 05:42 PM
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Re: Hello, I'm new

I'm with you on the whole password thing. My wife has her own and I have my own, but we wouldn't hesitate to show each other anything of ours, if asked. Becoming a full time paranoid spy isn't the way to go, you have to fully trust each other.

To me, marriage has always been one basic idea, that if you both strive for this, then you will last a lifetime, and that is DON'T BE SELFISH, put your spouses needs first always. If you both do this, guess what, everyone is very happy.

There is no guarantee that you two will last, but the secret is to believe with all of your heart that it will. IF you don't go into it with the "forever" mindset, then chances are it won't be.

God bless you two and best of luck!!

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post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 06:57 PM
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If we didn't work out, and down the road he married someone else...hmmm...I'd be happy for him, because that is true love..
Yeah, that's how most people feel when it actually happens to them.
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post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, that's how most people feel when it actually happens to them.
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post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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I'm with you on the whole password thing. My wife has her own and I have my own, but we wouldn't hesitate to show each other anything of ours, if asked. Becoming a full time paranoid spy isn't the way to go, you have to fully trust each other.

To me, marriage has always been one basic idea, that if you both strive for this, then you will last a lifetime, and that is DON'T BE SELFISH, put your spouses needs first always. If you both do this, guess what, everyone is very happy.

There is no guarantee that you two will last, but the secret is to believe with all of your heart that it will. IF you don't go into it with the "forever" mindset, then chances are it won't be.

God bless you two and best of luck!!
Thank you for this, so true!!

Also, something my grandmother told me before she passed away last year, is that you shouldn't have unreasonable expectations of what marriage is 'supposed' to do for you. In other words, if you are not happy from your childhood, your spouse can't 'fix' that. You shouldn't look to your spouse as a rescuer or a white knight, she said...you should look to him as your friend, your lover, your equal partner...but not as something he isn't meant to be. I think that is honestly where many people go wrong ...if you are not happy, it isn't your spouse's job to 'make you happy.' Some of the stories I've read on here so far seem to be looking for a spouse to cure them of whatever ails them, and it's not a fair spot to put your spouse in, my opinion.
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post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 07:48 PM
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Re: Hello, I'm new

Good evening
to me, marriage is sort of an acknowledgment of the desire you both already have to spend your lives together, it doesn't really change anything.

To me the most important question for getting married is "are you happy when you are with this person". Don't think about whether you *should* be happy. Whether they are a *good* person. Think about whether or not you are happy when you are with them.
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post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 07:49 PM
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Re: Hello, I'm new

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Just joined this site, and glad I found it. I'm recently engaged, and getting married in October of this year. I've received some good advice from friends and my family, but many of my friends are unhappy in their marriages (they have only been married a few years, most of them) or they are separated/getting a divorce. My friends' ages range from late 20's to early 30's. I don't judge why they are divorcing or unhappy, but it scares me a bit because I don't want my marriage to end up as another divorce stat. I'm pretty easy going, and so is my fiance. If you have any advice, I'd appreciate hearing it.
None of us, collectively, ever want the specter of divorce to occur in your young, impressionable life, or even our very own! But you have the advantage, my dear, because at your reasonably young age, you can read and learn about what a deceptive world that it can be with respect to marriage and to long-term relationships!

Hopefully you can see what a truly ugly world marriage can potentially be, and as such, can learn immeasurably from it!

Welcome to TAM, @Dierdre ~ please feel free to ask any of us old weathered veterans anything! We're only here to help!

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