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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-04-2012 05:56 AM
nightshift
Re: Women and orgasms

Bottled up,
So happy to read your last post. What a wonderful gift you gave her! As a woman, I would love for my husband to do something so selfless, thoughful, and sweet for me. Keep up the great work - it will bring so many benefits that you don't even expect!

As a side note, I have always had difficulty orgasming via sex, no matter what position. In fact, in the 20+ years I've been having sex, I've orgasmed from intercourse alone twice. I require alot of clitoral stimulation - to the point that I have to use a vibrator to get enough stimulation to orgasm at all. I have talked to my health care provider about this as well as a counselor - both assure me this is completely normal for women. May I suggest that you continue to use the vibrating ring/toy you mentioned during sex itself? There are so many varieties available if the one you currently have isn't a good fit. I highly recommend the vibrating bullet-type toys; she can control the speed and amount of stimulation the entire time which helps ensure she's not getting too little or too much vibration.

I wish you continued success in improving your sex life with your wife!
01-31-2012 01:28 AM
SimonLLL
Re: Women and orgasms

Oh - and...

Maybe try something a little different each week. Have some fun with it.

Meet separately at a bar & bistro and pretend to be strangers, as it were, meeting for the first time and then keen to discover all about each other.

You've had some other great suggestions, but maybe a chick-flick night for her with wine and chocs while you go out somewhere and leave her to it.

If she's had a rough day, run a scented bath for her before the massage.

Order gourmet food in and pretend you're at a posh restaurant, with candles etc.

All with no expectation other than you outlined in your success story.

All said, I'm bloody happy for you both. She's a lucky lady - there are not too many like you out there!
01-31-2012 01:20 AM
SimonLLL
Re: Women and orgasms

Bottled up -sorry, latecomer(!) on this one.

It could be that you are trying a bit too hard. She knows what you're reading at night - so there's extra pressure there. Always trying to make it better doesn't always lead to better quality love-making in that oh-so-important erogenous zone: the brain!

Back off a little. Read something more 'entertaining' in bed.

She's probably feeling overwhelmed by the expectation but too polite/meek to say so.

I understand about choice of contraception. Does the IUD have a chemical barrier, like a spermicide, incorporated in to it? She may be having a small reaction to this which is desensitising (I'm guessing here).

OK - and I just read your recent success story, but I hope something of my comment helps!!
01-30-2012 11:29 PM
Bottled Up
Re: Women and orgasms

I know, this isn't about orgasms anymore but I thought you ladies would like to hear some closure on this thread...

I'm happy to report that I gave the massage another go on Saturday night and my wife absolutely loved it!

It took me the better part of the day to get over my angst over the big let-down the night before, but I finally sucked it up and talked myself into calming down. Even though the surprise was gone I still managed to make it special. I actually played off of the disastrous let down from the night before and wrote a whole script of "ground rules" to recite to my wife when she got in the bed. For your reading pleasure, here's the dialogue I read:

"1) This massage is all about you, just you, and only you. This is not about sex... so please toss out any thoughts of ulterior motives and just clear your mind to enjoy simply a pampering made for you.

2) You are naked and I am highly attracted to you. This may result in an occasional erection but please ignore this, it is completely normal behavior and does not mean I have ulterior motives for this pampering.

3) You may hear the occasional Pandora radio commercial. I apologize for this inconvenience, as I'm a cheap bastard and refuse to pay for the ad-free service.

4) I am not a professional masseuse... I may need your guidance along the way if you are not enjoying something, so I can learn what pleases you. My hope is perhaps we can make this a weekly scheduled pampering for you if you enjoy the experience.

But last and most importantly, relax your body, enjoy my touch, and know that I love you deeply and your happiness is incredibly important to me."


So yeah, needless to say the evening went off without a hitch and it was a wonderful experience for us both. She got a no-strings-attached pampering of love and I got to experience every curve and tone of her body with my eyes and hands. It was fantastic, and damn right I plan on making this a weekly thing for her.

Oh and she was so turned on that we had sex afterwards anyway, but she totally initiated it not me! And no, she didn't even try to orgasm... she just wanted me in her I think.

Damn I love my wife... our life.
01-28-2012 11:02 AM
Trenton
Re: Women and orgasms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottled Up View Post
Enchantment and Trenton, thank you both for taking time to offer some insight here - it is much appreciated.

I really feel I do engage with my wife in all the areas you're referring to. I'm very attentive with her and our relationship daily - slight touches of affection, kisses, hugs, telling her how beautiful she is, doing more than my fair share around the home, cooking more dinners during the week than she does, and we're in contact w/ each other every day whether it be text or phone call. I'm most definitely pulling out all the stops I should be as a man and a husband, but also making sure I don't overdo it in each area - trying to keep a good balance of meeting needs without becoming a doormat in the process. We have mutual respect for each other because we are a good team, that I truly feel is mutual.

But I think you're right... maybe the last 2 weeks I've been more fixated on increasing the frequency of sex rather than realizing the importance of understand needs more intimately. To me, increasing our frequency I thought might help bring our bond a little closer and therefore create a natural spark of desire to become intimate more frequently, like a snowball effect. Like the more you have sex, the more you feel closer. And I guess the reason why I have been fixated only on sex frequency is because I really feel like we have a happy marriage in every other area of the relationship.

Maybe I just need to be a little more patient And I do need to read up and see if I can discover her love language too. Perhaps I am in fact targeting some wrong areas, or not coming up with enough ideas to build more intimate moments without expectation. I'll keep reading I guess.

I don't know. It's frustrating. I feel like I do know my wife very well, treat her very well, and try to do so much for her already though... and I've been making all these efforts trying to "figure her out" lately. It would be nice to see her take the same interest I have like finding a site like TAM and asking questions and reading relationship books, etc. She plays freecell on her iphone to get herself tired in bed (on sexless nights) while I'm sitting there next to her reading a book about relationships on my iphone.
It's possible that it's not you at all. Hard to tell on an internet forum, you know? It's also possible that's she's disengaged with her life in general and is just passing time. If that's the case, she has to get herself re-engaged and re-ignite what she is passionate about in life before she can re-connect with you. She may not be disconnected from you as much as she is disconnected in general with what makes her happy & excited.

It's also possible she's not like you and so would not look to the same outlets to get help. I can tell you flat out that my husband would never, ever be found reading books on relationships or seeking help on an internet forum for relationships. It's not him at all.
01-28-2012 09:45 AM
Bottled Up
Re: Women and orgasms

Enchantment and Trenton, thank you both for taking time to offer some insight here - it is much appreciated.

I really feel I do engage with my wife in all the areas you're referring to. I'm very attentive with her and our relationship daily - slight touches of affection, kisses, hugs, telling her how beautiful she is, doing more than my fair share around the home, cooking more dinners during the week than she does, and we're in contact w/ each other every day whether it be text or phone call. I'm most definitely pulling out all the stops I should be as a man and a husband, but also making sure I don't overdo it in each area - trying to keep a good balance of meeting needs without becoming a doormat in the process. We have mutual respect for each other because we are a good team, that I truly feel is mutual.

But I think you're right... maybe the last 2 weeks I've been more fixated on increasing the frequency of sex rather than realizing the importance of understand needs more intimately. To me, increasing our frequency I thought might help bring our bond a little closer and therefore create a natural spark of desire to become intimate more frequently, like a snowball effect. Like the more you have sex, the more you feel closer. And I guess the reason why I have been fixated only on sex frequency is because I really feel like we have a happy marriage in every other area of the relationship.

Maybe I just need to be a little more patient And I do need to read up and see if I can discover her love language too. Perhaps I am in fact targeting some wrong areas, or not coming up with enough ideas to build more intimate moments without expectation. I'll keep reading I guess.

I don't know. It's frustrating. I feel like I do know my wife very well, treat her very well, and try to do so much for her already though... and I've been making all these efforts trying to "figure her out" lately. It would be nice to see her take the same interest I have like finding a site like TAM and asking questions and reading relationship books, etc. She plays freecell on her iphone to get herself tired in bed (on sexless nights) while I'm sitting there next to her reading a book about relationships on my iphone.
01-28-2012 08:40 AM
Trenton
Re: Women and orgasms

What Enchantment said is what I meant to say. You have to figure out what she does enjoy rather than what you would enjoy and it's true she might have enjoyed the massage, but wouldn't let herself because she felt it was going to turn into more you time.
01-28-2012 08:33 AM
Enchantment
Re: Women and orgasms

Hi Bottled Up ~

I'm sorry it didn't work out last night. But, I'm not really surprised, I guess.

I always need a 'transition' period when I get home or move from one mode to another - like I'll need a few minutes by myself if there's been a hectic dinner and clean-up that I've had to do, etc..

My H has been learning all these many years about me, and seems to understand this now. He maintains connection with me throughout the day to tease, flirt, lightly touch, talk throughout the day - and with no expectation. (It takes awhile for a wife to get to the point where she understands there's no expectation if there has been a lot of expectation and pressure before.) He gives me the time and space that I need to go from one thing to another.

So, many nights we are laying on the sofa together drowsily watching TV and we start to massage each other or hold each other's hands, and there already feels like a connection there ... because we were connected throughout the day.

On days when we are both super busy and there isn't that much contact, I will admit that it can be harder for me.

The other thing is - you wanted to do something special just for your wife without expectation. And she immediately thought of the expectation of sex and was put on edge.

Do you know what her 'love language' is? For instance, if physical touch is not her love language, a massage may not 'speak' to her and may make her feel pressured. A massage would be you speaking to her in your 'love language', not speaking to her in hers.

If she is a quality time person, maybe she would have enjoyed you setting up a movie night at home with a new movie she's been wanting to see, with pizza and popcorn at the ready.

If she's an act of service person, maybe she would have enjoyed you finishing some task on your to-do list and cooking her a wonderful dinner.

If she's a gift person, maybe she would have been impressed with the sound of soft music playing when she got home, with a box of her favorite chocolates sitting out for her.

Don't get too discouraged. Instead, use it as an opportunity to learn more about your wife - what it is she likes and dislikes. Use it an opportunity to study her and her reactions so you can get closer to her - find what 'speaks' to her.

Best wishes.
01-28-2012 08:31 AM
Trenton
Re: Women and orgasms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottled Up View Post
Well, last night fell apart.

I was gonna take your advice Trenton and not pursue the "grand finale" with sex, as I thought it made a ton of sense and you were right... it's all about trying to give her pleasure in other ways and not necessarily about reaching the big "O".

So I planned my whole elaborate massage as a surprise and got all the items ready - put the ipod speakers, candles, coconut oil, and some towel all hidden in my drawer so she wouldn't see them in the room when we went up to the bedroom. I even spent the day making a new Pandora station with Marvin Gaye type music for the session, making sure to "thumbs up" all the nice slow songs and "thumbs down" all the ones a little too fast - trying to perfect the station for the evening. And then when she got home all I told her was that "I have something special planned for her tonight, so we have to go to bed at a decent hour so she's not tired."

Well, bed time rolled around and she thought it was sex I wanted, so she started being resistant and telling me how tired she was and she just wanted to watch TV. I tried to persuade her without revealing the surprise but the problem with not revealing the surprise was leading her more and more into thinking I wanted to have sex. It was actually becoming too intense of a discussion, so I finally had to ruin the surprise and tell her what the plan was to ease up the situation. And I told her it wasn't even about sex tonight, I just wanted to do something just for her and make her happy.

She felt like sh*t afterwards, she had some tears... very apologetic. She told me I could give her one tonight instead, but I don't know... my heart is slightly crushed right now and it feels like it would only be a fraction of how special it was supposed to be originally now that she knows about it.

I'll probably give it to her anyway, because she deserves to be happy still... but I definitely feel an emptiness inside about the whole thing now.
Now you know your entire problem. She believes it's all about sex and all about sex that you enjoy while she's not enjoying it.

Neither of you have done anything wrong. This is a problem with communication and misunderstanding about the needs of one another.

If you want to end that cycle you have to re-build intimacy and stop making it about sex. I'm not suggesting you ignore your needs entirely, but you be honest and open about them, take hers into consideration and ask her to be honest with you and make sure that you build plenty of massages, little gifts, thoughtful conversations, acts of service, etc. into the mix of your relationship.

Once intimacy is there, start to have more conversations about sex, why it's so important to you, how making love to her brings you closer to her...build passion back into the relationship.
01-28-2012 07:29 AM
Bottled Up
Re: Women and orgasms

Well, last night fell apart.

I was gonna take your advice Trenton and not pursue the "grand finale" with sex, as I thought it made a ton of sense and you were right... it's all about trying to give her pleasure in other ways and not necessarily about reaching the big "O".

So I planned my whole elaborate massage as a surprise and got all the items ready - put the ipod speakers, candles, coconut oil, and some towel all hidden in my drawer so she wouldn't see them in the room when we went up to the bedroom. I even spent the day making a new Pandora station with Marvin Gaye type music for the session, making sure to "thumbs up" all the nice slow songs and "thumbs down" all the ones a little too fast - trying to perfect the station for the evening. And then when she got home all I told her was that "I have something special planned for her tonight, so we have to go to bed at a decent hour so she's not tired."

Well, bed time rolled around and she thought it was sex I wanted, so she started being resistant and telling me how tired she was and she just wanted to watch TV. I tried to persuade her without revealing the surprise but the problem with not revealing the surprise was leading her more and more into thinking I wanted to have sex. It was actually becoming too intense of a discussion, so I finally had to ruin the surprise and tell her what the plan was to ease up the situation. And I told her it wasn't even about sex tonight, I just wanted to do something just for her and make her happy.

She felt like sh*t afterwards, she had some tears... very apologetic. She told me I could give her one tonight instead, but I don't know... my heart is slightly crushed right now and it feels like it would only be a fraction of how special it was supposed to be originally now that she knows about it.

I'll probably give it to her anyway, because she deserves to be happy still... but I definitely feel an emptiness inside about the whole thing now.
01-27-2012 03:57 PM
Trenton
Re: Women and orgasms

I got to be honest here. If I said, "I've lost it, so you finish." My husband would lose it too. Even the idea that I wasn't fully enjoying myself would make him limp. Since I know this, I often enjoy it for what it is...intimacy with my husband...and don't consider focusing on the orgasm aspect.

My advice to you from the scenario you proposed, and this is really advice that would work with me so I've no real idea if it would work with your wife, is to offer the massage without turning it sexual. Work on building intimacy that focuses on her and how she feels alone. Don't massage her and then whip out a vibrating dildo.

Men and women have very different sexuality. The best sexual relationship with your partner will be more about a generalized accepted give and take. The partners have to want to satisfy the other on their terms. To do this you have to watch and pay attention to what is satisfying to the other.

So basically, the two of you may not climax each time you have sex. Maybe you will be alone in your orgasm but if you build up the intimacy in your relationship she will be there cheering you on, enjoying what she is making happen to you and that pleasure alone will create immense pleasure for both.

Later on, as you relax and massage her or fulfill her needs in other areas of her life, you will sit back and not get anything from these events besides the satisfaction that you are creating those feelings within her.

My point is that sexuality and happiness within the marriage comes from an overall atmosphere where both partners' needs are being met. You falter in other areas and she will let you know by vocalizing her disappointment with her lack of orgasm or acting as if sex is a chore. It's my opinion, that if this is happening she is not feeling overall satisfaction with the relationship, possibly in totally unrelated areas from sex itself.

Sometimes this has nothing to do with you though. It could be her work load or feelings about herself. If you recognize what it is, you can work to get her to a better place which will in turn get you both to a better place.
01-27-2012 02:01 PM
Bottled Up
Re: Women and orgasms

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantBeJustMe View Post
Maybe I missed it...

But how's the clitoris stimulating when you two are together?

Just wondering.....
I stimulate it during foreplay when fingering her, that gets her going and then she wants to get on top of me to try and finish off to orgasm. But then she's been "losing it" once she's actually in the process of riding me.

Last night I sensed she was about to lose the urge so I reached down with my finger and attempted to try and stimulate it for her while she was still going, but as soon as I did that she gave up and said "I lost it, you just finish..."
01-27-2012 01:45 PM
CantBeJustMe
Re: Women and orgasms

Maybe I missed it...

But how's the clitoris stimulating when you two are together?

Just wondering.....
01-27-2012 01:18 PM
Bottled Up
Re: Women and orgasms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenton View Post
Have you ever suggested she get the IUD out and switch to a different form of birth control? Even condoms? Vasectomy if you're no longer interested in kids?

Have you told her that her sexual satisfaction is as important as yours to you? If you were having sex six times in two weeks but only had an orgasm once would you want to have sex that much? Without having your wife be honest, it's awfully hard to address the problem. I don't think it's her body, although I'm sure her level of desire has something to do with it.
Yeah, we've been talking about the IUD lately. Even though we say we're done, she's still not 100% sure so she does NOT want me to have a vasectomy just yet. And she really hates the hormones in birth control pills and doesn't want to go back to those either. So the IUD is what she's most comfortable with in the time-being.

Yes, I do tell her that her sexual satisfaction is important to me. I told her recently that I "just wanted to work on her tonight" but she wasn't in the mood. Then another evening, I suggested that "we don't need to have penetration every time... intimacy doesn't always need to be sex"... trying to get her into thinking about foreplay only being just as much of a stimulant and satisfaction in a relationship. But her response was "But what's the point of that if no one is getting off?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenton View Post
Even if she's not having an orgasm she has to feel she is getting something out of the experience or she's definitely not going to want to keep it up (double entendre).
I fully agree, and I think I've been trying to get her to open up more without pressuring her on it. Her satisfaction is VERY important to me, and I think she knows that... but she's a little too close-minded on sexuality or something.

I have a plan for her tonight though... I bought some coconut oil at the store. I'm going to setup some candles in the bedroom, put on some soft music, and give her a full body massage with the coconut oil - and I'm not going to let her say no. I'm going to pamper her tonight and not give her the option to back out of it!

For the grand finale, I was also thinking this... I have a sex toy that straps on to my penis and vibrates, with some bumps on it to stimulate the clitoris. Once I'm done pampering her with all the above, I was thinking about trying to get her off using the toy tonight. We haven't used it in a LONG time... could be a nice surprise.

Thoughts???
01-27-2012 12:39 PM
Trenton
Re: Women and orgasms

Have you ever suggested she get the IUD out and switch to a different form of birth control? Even condoms? Vasectomy if you're no longer interested in kids?

Have you told her that her sexual satisfaction is as important as yours to you? If you were having sex six times in two weeks but only had an orgasm once would you want to have sex that much? Without having your wife be honest, it's awfully hard to address the problem. I don't think it's her body, although I'm sure her level of desire has something to do with it. Even if she's not having an orgasm she has to feel she is getting something out of the experience or she's definitely not going to want to keep it up (double entendre).
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