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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-26-2014 02:49 PM
Uptown
Re: My list of hell!

Maybe, are you still around? If so, please give us a status update. Am wondering how you're getting along with your W and whether her boss has fired her by now.
11-12-2013 06:18 PM
Uptown
Re: My list of hell!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaybeItsMe? View Post
I think my wife is getting worse....
Like you, Maybe, I didn't find the validation techniques mentioned in Stop Walking on Eggshells to be helpful. Such techniques likely are helpful when the partner's BPD traits are at a moderate level but not when they are at a strong level, as appears to be the case with your W. I'm sorry to hear that her behavior is not improving.
11-12-2013 01:15 PM
MaybeItsMe?
Re: My list of hell!

I think my wife is getting worse, she has painted a lot of friends black (there is no hope for the now) and has pissed of her boss and her team leader at work and now has a disciplinary meeting. I used to try and calm her down and keep her away from these work outbursts, warn her about being nasty to the people around her but I don't do it any more, I let her get on with it. Sadly I also have no sympathy for her and actually understand what her workplace must be going through.
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11-09-2013 10:53 AM
argyle
Re: My list of hell!

...my experience is that, on those occasions where my wife was expressing an emotion, validation was helpful. On those occasions where my wife was avoiding feeling an emotion by projecting bad behaviors onto me and then responding abusively to the projections...less so. Or just when she was throwing a tantrum to relieve stress.

--Argyle
11-09-2013 10:42 AM
argyle
Re: My list of hell!

...my experience is that, on those occasions where my wife was expressing an emotion, validation was helpful. On those occasions where my wife was avoiding feeling an emotion by projecting bad behaviors onto me and then responding abusively to the projections...less so. Or just when she was throwing a tantrum to relieve stress.

--Argyle
11-08-2013 03:23 PM
Uptown
Re: My list of hell!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaybeItsMe? View Post
My wife does this a lot, goes round and around and then gets angry with me that the conversation is looping.
Maybe, did you find the validation techniques mentioned in Stop Walking on Eggshells to be helpful? I ask because, IME, such techniques are helpful when the partner's BPD traits are at a moderate level but not when they are at a strong level.
10-07-2013 01:32 PM
EleGirl
Re: My list of hell!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaybeItsMe? View Post
Yes, I know my list is smaller than hers and I am 100% sure she has a huge list about me

Manning up doesn't work. I have tried what is called the 180 here and she finds that annoying. She like the nice things I do and if i don't do them well thats just more ammunition. I feel like a jester to be honest.
The 180 is NOT manning up. The 180 that is given out here is for a person who use when they are an emotional wreck because their spouse is having an affair and will not end the affair.
10-07-2013 01:19 PM
argyle
Re: My list of hell!

Setting boundaries works. With 3 caveats.
(a) BPDs oscillate a lot. And bad behavior is capped. So, good boundaries do not mean you should expect an elimination of visits to crazytown.
(b) Enforcing boundaries results in feelings of abandonment, so the immediate reaction (think 3-6 months) will be one of increased dysfunction.
(c) Escalation is required. So, if you won't engage in looping conversations. That means the sequence is something like...

1) Conversation looping->done
2) Not stopping->leaving the room
3) Following->leaving the house, and staying out for about a day
4) Blocking you->calling the police, and leaving her in jail for a while

That said, not feeding into crazytalk does help.

Regarding hopelessness, it depends on the BPD. BPD is surprisingly treatable in many instances. I'd argue that my wife has made a transition from BPD to seriously neurotic.

Personally, I found that the 'best' response to projections involved calmly cutting my wife off and explaining that her behavior was pure projection. And then explaining exactly which bit of shame she was projecting and that feeling shame was normal but projecting it was unhealthy. And then telling her that I wouldn't discuss anything further while leaving her to cry/melt down on the floor. And then coming back a day later. The problem is that validating crazy doesn't help.

And, anyways, there's a certain amount of venting my wife needs to do under stress - and given a choice between a helpless crying fit and an abusive rage, I prefer the former.

--Argyle
10-07-2013 08:26 AM
Uptown
Re: My list of hell!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsBeautiful42 View Post
I had tried setting boundaries, it does not work because it simply does not register. But by not reacting to it and not telling her that that I disliked her behavior, am I validating her actions? I'm hoping that she realizes her behavior does not affect me (to the point that I need to show displeasure or anger). Like if a child throws tantrums and people around her pay no attention and carry on normally, the child eventually stops since it is pointless?
LIB, I agree with you that, by not reacting emotionally to her attempts to start a fight, you are reducing her incentive to create drama. If she has only mild to moderate BPD traits, that approach -- together with your frequent validations of her feelings -- may make your M workable.

In that case, however, I would not agree that "setting boundaries does not work." The boundary you are setting is your refusal to participate in childish arguments that create pointless drama. You are enforcing violations of that boundary by allowing her to suffer the logical consequences of her actions -- i.e., you are ignoring her and, if necessary, leaving the room when she escalates the attack. Hence, if you don't want to be an "enabler," your only option is to create personal boundaries and strictly enforce them when they are violated.
10-07-2013 06:38 AM
MaybeItsMe?
Re: My list of hell!

My wife does this a lot, goes round and around and then gets angry with me that the conversation is looping. She also sticks to the same thought process no matter what I say.
10-06-2013 11:37 PM
LifeIsBeautiful42
Re: My list of hell!

Hi Uptown,
You were spot on, thanks for explaining. Previously I had tried to rationalize, and it was probably more for me to regain my sanity then to help her regain hers, which wasn't possible anyway. Recently, after an event I tried staying calm (not losing it) and letting it pass. Nothing further came from it. Seems for my W, any reaction to her acting out makes it worse, much worse. I had tried setting boundaries, it does not work because it simply does not register. But by not reacting to it and not telling her that that I disliked her behavior, am I validating her actions? I'm hoping that she realizes her behavior does not affect me (to the point that I need to show displeasure or anger). Like if a child throws tantrums and people around her pay no attention and carry on normally, the child eventually stops since it is pointless?
09-23-2013 06:52 PM
Uptown
Re: My list of hell!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsBeautiful42 View Post
Can anyone explain the reason for the "looping" converstations? Any techniques to cope with it?
LIB, are you referring to the way a BPDer will keep looping back to the same old false arguments over and over again -- nevermind that you two have discussed them to death and even resolved some of them? If so, this behavior occurs because a BPDer's feelings are so intense and uncontrolled that they establish her "reality" at any point in time. This means she will interpret reality in a distorted way that "validates" the feelings she is feeling at THIS VERY MOMENT.

This is why it is impossible to build up a store of good will on which you can later draw during the hard times. Whatever good will you create is quickly washed aside, like a sandcastle beside the sea, by the next tide of emotions flooding her mind.

For the same reason, it is nearly impossible to ever resolve any contentious issues with a BPDer. In the rare instances when you actually do achieve a resolution, it will be washed aside -- together with your good will -- by whatever feelings are flooding her mind.

The result is that you will find a BPDer often looping back to the same old allegations over and over again. Indeed, this will even happen in the same conversation, where you will see her abandon one argument and support her distorted view with an entirely different argument. When you find fault with that new argument, she will substitute a third without even blinking. And, if you prove that it makes no sense as well, she will loop back to the very first argument -- as though you had never said anything about it at all.

Significantly, BPDers are not the only folks who do this irrational arguing. On the contrary, we all do it whenever we experience very intense feelings. We've done it so many hundreds of times that, by the time we are in high school, most of us know that our judgment goes out the window whenever we are very angry or very infatuated. That's why we know to keep our mouths shut until we have time to cool down.
Quote:
Am I suppose to validate it over and over again?
That is what Stop Walking on Eggshells seems to suggest. My experience is that, while that may work for people having mild to moderate BPD traits, it doesn't make a dent in the bad behavior of those having strong BPD traits. Because they are unable to trust you, they simply will not believe the many things you say to validate them. Moreover, even if they did, they have so much anger and shame inside that their subconscious minds will keep projecting it onto you -- over and over again -- to protect their fragile egos from seeing too much of reality. This, at least, is my experience.
09-23-2013 02:18 AM
LifeIsBeautiful42
Re: My list of hell!

Can anyone explain the reason for the "looping" converstations? Any techniques to cope with it?

Talking about events, people, feelings that happened years ago every now and them, and these are mostly negative experiences (it left a deep impression and wasn't exactly happy ones). Am I suppose to validate it over and over again? I've asked my W to stop (in fact just last night) and the outcome, you can imagine. I have to rationalize for most part of my work, it drives me to the edge more so lately, and I'm struggling to deal with it. Thanks.
06-14-2013 08:12 PM
MSP
Re: My list of hell!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaybeItsMe? View Post
I had a mental breakdown some years back and I have become very withdrawn. I don't like crowds or people anymore

I can shout and smash things when I am angry,

I have lot of pressure on my back

I have lost my self confidence

I sometimes wont let an argument just drop

I don't sleep very well but also I find it hard to get up in the morning

I cry a lot these days for no real reason, I feel embarrassed even typing that.
FWIW, all of those things can be correlated with low serotonin. I prefer natural ways of bringing it back up, like exercise, good diet, being social.
06-14-2013 07:12 PM
Uptown
Re: My list of hell!

Maybe, how are you doing? Did you ever have a chance to read the Codependent No More book? I checked your profile and noticed that you were reading on the TAM forum very recently. So I'm hoping for an update.
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