Physical & Mental Health IssuesMarriage and relationships are difficult by themselves, but coping with physical or mental health problems can make things even more difficult.
Avos, you and I have a lot in common, especially the fact that your wife told you she had slept around before and you didn't want details. Now you are discovering the implications of your choice to avoid the information. I feel for you and for your wife, because I see you struggling with similar issues to those I face now. You love your wife and want to work through it and perhaps you can with your counselor's help. I'm sorry it doesn't seem to be working. I have no real help to offer, only empathy.
For me, I am focused on what I need to learn about myself.
Why did I want a particular situation in marriage, but close my eyes to the truth?
Why did I think I could ignore reality and have it morph to fit my fantasy?
Isn't it unfair for me to say "It's all good" and then later want to revisit unfinished business? I think it is unfair of me, but maybe your story is different.
Now that the truth has slapped me in the face so that I can't ignore it, how do I face what I should have faced a long time ago?
For years I viewed myself as a victim in love and have recently tried to step up and accept responsibility. It's much harder now than it would have been years ago because the original problem has been complicated by my own dysfunctional reaction . Instead of honestly addressing the issues effectively when they were first presented, I chose to propose marriage to her. I have married the unresolved issues of the past. I'm not perfect enough myself to stand in judgment, but I need relief from the pain. I don't want to be selfish or to serve my own best interests at her expense. Failure to deal with conflict has only compounded the problems. Now I'm ready to deal, but still no better at it. If I had dealt with it originally, I could have been in a position to end the relationship and she could have been in a position to end the conversation and / or the relationship. I chose to sweep it all under the rug and move forward with her. When you propose marriage to someone you need to accept, love and support them not attack them for their past or make them feel guilty. If I say nothing that is being dishonest and the profound emotional effect it has on me is impossible to hide. It seeps into the relationship in various ways if I try to suppress it. I do not want to be passive aggressive. I do not want to withdraw my love. I want to fight fair if it has to be a fight. I want to offer acceptance and understanding but I need answers. I've been lied to and deceived or at least I feel as though I have been. Is this how you feel?
You may not relate to anything I'm saying about my own situation and even if you do relate, it may not help. But I'm as confused as you are, if thats any consolation.
It is difficult to reconcile the desire to support your wife through a time that is tough for her and then to turn around and find a way to have a conversation about sensitive things from her past that have hurt you. It sounds like she was not dishonest in her representation of her past. You stopped her from telling you any more. Isn't that right? Now you are wishing you had understood the implications of facts you were emotionally unable to handle back when the conversation first came up. Maybe that's not how it was with you, but it is how it was with me.
In my case, much of the responsibility is on me. I have to find a way to come to grips with that before I can begin to explore how to talk to my wife about her part in it. I don't want my wife to be alienated or feel judged, but when the time comes for the conversation I need to have I must prepare for her to be offended, angry, indignant and to walk away. I don't want that, but to say nothing is dishonest also. In my case, my wife was dishonest with me about some relationships with other men, but I let it go without exploring the conversation adequately because I couldn't handle the truth. I think she knew that and that's why she lied. Some would say a woman's past isn't her husband's business. Maybe they are right. My chief concern has to do with an affair she had while we were getting back together after a breakup. She lied about it and I feel it is my business because it was during the time that we were back in communication and talking on the phone regularly after the break up.
As you can see, my response is more about my trying to make sense of my own screwed up life than it is about helping you. I wish I could help myself and also help you, but I don't think I can help either of us.
I wish you the best. Stay in counseling and I suggest you try to understand yourself before you try to have her explain herself to you.
It's because she withheld need to know information from him. She decived him by witholding information that he had a right to know about.
He obviously wouldn't have married her if he knew about 28 sexual partners, multiple STDs and infertility. 2 of the 3 things are easily stated and as a nurse he would have know the potential for the 3rd due to the STDs.
You really need to read the post and not twist them to fit the issues that are sources of your anxieties. It is amazing how you comment has nothing to do with what the poster wrote. There is nothing in his post that indicates that she deceived him nor that she was aware that she had STDs or with held info from him. He did not ask about details. She was honest when they met at 23 yo, she said she had multiple partners, that does not sound like deception to me. he made the choice to marry her, he deceived her.
She told him, he proceeded with the relationship fully informed and now that they are married she is stuck with a man who suddenly switches on her. She probably thought she put her past problems behind her only to be tormented by a man who claims to love her. .
You need to isolate yourself and men like you to a little island where woman will have lines tattooed into their foreheads for each man they have sex with and a red star for STDs. This will not help with your problems with female sexuality though. Posted via Mobile Device
You really need to read the post and not twist them to fit the issues that are sources of your anxieties. It is amazing how you comment has nothing to do with what the poster wrote. There is nothing in his post that indicates that she deceived him nor that she was aware that she had STDs or with held info from him. He did not ask about details. She was honest when they met at 23 yo, she said she had multiple partners, that does not sound like deception to me. he made the choice to marry her, he deceived her
Hmmm... let's see...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avos
She told me about some of her self destructive behavior and mentioned that she had been with a lot of men. I didn't want to know the details, and although it hurt at first, I was able to let it go and move into what has been a wonderful relationship.
28 sexual partners is vastly more than I had imagined. It makes me feel very insecure, jealous, and hurt.
I also have some anger regarding the infertility because of the STD scarring.
If he had known, he would never have married her.
A sexual history of multiple STDs is need to know information. It's called a lie of omission.
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This woman is guilty of lying, based on the OP's post, on this I agree.
Myself, I would have pressed for details, and would advise my own sons to do the same with any woman they are interested in.
And this is exactly why.
Marriage, as a sexual and emotional relationship, it is a union formed in trust, to create something together as a couple that does not exist as individuals.
This creation, we as humans can describe it as a hope, or dream, or goal, or some other such thing, but regardless, the expectations are as follows:
Marriage is a sexual relationship.
Such a sexual relationship carries the hope of producing successfl offspring, which to many humans is our highest aspiration and most noble desire.
These are reasonable expectations of marriage.
The "lies of omission" from this woman, and yes her past behavior, has jeopardized both of these reasonable expecations.
Shaming comments, such as to accuse the OP of merely having a hurt ego in this situation, or flippantly excusing this woman's promiscuity, are not only unhelpful, they demonstrate an embarrassingly shallow and contemptuous opinion of men, women, marriage, and indeed basic shared human aspirations and dreams outright.
To the OP:
I suggest taking time to DECIDE for yourself what you want.
If this sad situation is a dealbreaker, for your benefit and the benefit of your woman, I would recommend separation and eventual divorce and not be wishy washy for many years with this wound festering resentment between you and your woman.
However, if you decide you will be fine without children, and can live with your woman's sexual past, then give your marriage 100 percent and move forward as honesty and deliberatly as you can.
Avos,
I often find men men ask dangerous questions that they are not prepared to handle the answers, such as; "How many partners did you have before me?" Anytime I've heard an honest answer, a number, men get hung up on it, whether it be two or fourty. What I don't hear is women saying, "I just can't handle it, my husband slept with X number of people before me." Just think about that. I find the reasoning comes from the ego as someone else said before and out of date expectations on women.
You were aware she had a past and maybe one you weren't crazy about,, but you married her anyway. Even if she does have some scarring, it does not ultimately prevent you from having children. There are other ways. Besides, past or no past, not all women can have children for many reasons. Not all men can either. Should all those people get divorced based on that? That sounds shallow and doesn't sound like a committed marriage to me. You could always adopt, but having your own seed is part of ego too. I'm saying all of this to help you put things in proper perspective. None of what you are saying are any events against you. It doesn't sound like she has violated her marriage vows and you still love her. Work it out. This is a minor issue.
I do agree that you having trouble coming to grips with this is causing her guilt and grief. Let it go. It's the past. You weren't a virgin either. Perhaps you were luckier than her that your partner didn't pass anything on it you, but it takes just one partner to give you something, so the number is ficticious.
I agree with you that nobody is perfect, so when these negative feelings hit you, try to focus on the good aspects of your wife. Don't ruin your relationship today for what mistakes may have been in the past, whether their yours or hers.
As for these "friends". She is young. I was more inclined to be still friends with my ex's at that age. Perhaps you two should consider moving to a new neighborhood for a fresh start. I will tell you though, that these visions of your wife with her exes are most likely only in your head. Once a guy is an ex, I don't think of him sexually anymore. I have thought of nice dinners we had together or walks, conversations, but not sexual moments. I only think of my husband like that. She is with you now. I am confident that it is the same for her. Besides, she married you, not them. That means she wants you, not them. Make peace with this and find the positive in your marriage to build upon. Marriage is not easy, but it has it's rewards if you work on it. Good luck.
I find the reasoning comes from the ego as someone else said before and out of date expectations on women.
It may be out of date to expect a virginal bride. However, 28 partners is off the charts for American women. ABC reports a survey average of 6 partners for women. Another source I've seen uses 6.6 as the average.
Quote:
Originally Posted by candice912
Besides, past or no past, not all women can have children for many reasons. Not all men can either. Should all those people get divorced based on that?
Not all cases of infertility are equal. If a woman develops cancer and is infertile as a result, she is not to blame and should be supported. If a woman knows, or suspects, that she is infertile through many past STDs, then she has a responsibility to give that information to her fiance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by candice912
Perhaps you were luckier than her that your partner didn't pass anything on it you, but it takes just one partner to give you something, so the number is ficticious.
Not really. If a life long smoker develops lung cancer, he's not unlucky. He spent years engaged in high risk behavior and the consequences of that behavior caught up with him. I'm certainly not shocked that a woman who engaged in anonymous sex with dozens of men and women caught multiple STDs.
If the OP, with his single prior partner in a long term relationship, had developed an STD, then you could argue that he was unlucky.
I hope the OP can forgive his wife for her prior bad behavior and her not telling him of the possibility of infertility. He sounds like such a nice guy that he likely would have married her anyway.
It may be out of date to expect a virginal bride. However, 28 partners is off the charts for American women. ABC reports a survey average of 6 partners for women. Another source I've seen uses 6.6 as the average.
Not all cases of infertility are equal. If a woman develops cancer and is infertile as a result, she is not to blame and should be supported. If a woman knows, or suspects, that she is infertile through many past STDs, then she has a responsibility to give that information to her fiance.
Not really. If a life long smoker develops lung cancer, he's not unlucky. He spent years engaged in high risk behavior and the consequences of that behavior caught up with him. I'm certainly not shocked that a woman who engaged in anonymous sex with dozens of men and women caught multiple STDs.
If the OP, with his single prior partner in a long term relationship, had developed an STD, then you could argue that he was unlucky.
I hope the OP can forgive his wife for her prior bad behavior and her not telling him of the possibility of infertility. He sounds like such a nice guy that he likely would have married her anyway.
Right, we are out of the dark ages, so quit counting HER partners. Secondly, where are those statistics coming from? Did someone follow all those women around and document their sex lives to get those numbers or were they relying on women to admit how many people they slept with under the fear that they would be seen as a **** if the number was too high. In psychology, we studied how women tend to downplay the number whereas a men tend to brag. It's a false statistic with zero evidence to back it up.
I agree with you he sounds like a nice guy. It also sounds like she changed her life too, so should she be condemned for a past mistake?
Why is it if a man sleeps around he's a dog or a man-***** to women but when a woman sleeps with untold #'s of men then somehow they are victims or we should coddle them for their indescretions. Total double standard... just like the double standard of guys thinking its cool to sleep around and women are tramps if they do!
Why doesn't everyone keep their clothes on and learn a little more about themselves before humping all around the neighborhood (male of female)therefore having all these emotional,physical problems! Here's a great article on promiscuity.
Guys, like the women said, we are in a different time now and apparently it's ok to have sex whomever you wish and not ever, ever have to worry about a thing because all you have to say is you were sad and depressed and its ok!!
I'm not entertaining any thoughts of divorce. I really love my wife and I know that I'll eventually find a way to get past this problem.
From experience, dont bet your future away like that.... it does NOT get better or go away and all the "get over it" advice is gonna drive you nuts!! My ex and I were divorced more than 10 years ago and have since gotten back together but not before she had slept with more than 10 to 12 men that I know of. Some really, really bad stuff but I thought I could get past it because I loved her so much. Now 10+ years later and my hopes that it would "get better" or "it'll pass" are NOT gonna happen. Thats wishful thinking. Its harsh to say but move on and have children with someone you can feel comfortable with sexually.
I have had very limited partners myself (4 with her my 5th) and to me it feels like less of an experience as it should feel (making love).
Compared to my situation your wifes #'s arent that bad.... cold be worse, it could have been 50 or more like I have to deal with.
A history of multiple STDs was need to know information before you married her.
SHE did not know though I agree the whole I did not want to know was a bad idea.
Quote:
Everything hinges on whether or not you want kids of your own. If you do, you'll probably be better off divorcing her and finding someone new. If not, stay with her.
And what if she were infertile for another reason?
There are mistakes that one can forgive and get over. And mistakes that one can't. If my husband had a history of murdering, well I could never get over that no matter how remorseful and changed he was.
The question you need to ask yourself is, is this a mistake you can truly forgive and move on from or not?
This woman is guilty of lying, based on the OP's post, on this I agree.
Myself, I would have pressed for details, and would advise my own sons to do the same with any woman they are interested in.
And this is exactly why.
Marriage, as a sexual and emotional relationship, it is a union formed in trust, to create something together as a couple that does not exist as individuals.
This creation, we as humans can describe it as a hope, or dream, or goal, or some other such thing, but regardless, the expectations are as follows:
Marriage is a sexual relationship.
Such a sexual relationship carries the hope of producing successfl offspring, which to many humans is our highest aspiration and most noble desire.
These are reasonable expectations of marriage.
The "lies of omission" from this woman, and yes her past behavior, has jeopardized both of these reasonable expecations.
Shaming comments, such as to accuse the OP of merely having a hurt ego in this situation, or flippantly excusing this woman's promiscuity, are not only unhelpful, they demonstrate an embarrassingly shallow and contemptuous opinion of men, women, marriage, and indeed basic shared human aspirations and dreams outright.
To the OP:
I suggest taking time to DECIDE for yourself what you want.
If this sad situation is a dealbreaker, for your benefit and the benefit of your woman, I would recommend separation and eventual divorce and not be wishy washy for many years with this wound festering resentment between you and your woman.
However, if you decide you will be fine without children, and can live with your woman's sexual past, then give your marriage 100 percent and move forward as honesty and deliberatly as you can.
True that... men usually multiply theirs and women usually give a fraction of their true number.
Not even my doctor knows how many people I have been to bed with. My husband found out of my sordid past, but he does not know the actual number. I will die before I share that with anyone. The way women are punished for being sexual, any number more than five is too many for us!
It's not just that she had lots of partners it's that they sound like truly scum of the earth lowlifes. And to top it off she is nw barren from given them her affection, and to make matters worse she remains in friendly contact with these pieces of trash.
I know you love you wife, but you married a person who freely gave away your future to have children of your own. And if you had been there with her and tried to stop her, she would have called you controlling.
You both need therapy to deal with the turbulent emotions this is causing. Posted via Mobile Device
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Re: Dealing With Spouse's Past Promiscuity. 
