On Cluster B and Borderline - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
Physical & Mental Health Issues Marriage and relationships are difficult by themselves, but coping with physical or mental health problems can make things even more difficult.

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post #31 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 03:14 PM
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

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Nope. Quite the contrary.

Hopefully when she gets the property division proposal around Easter her fears will be justified
she may logically know that you are going to take half of the marital property, but she still feels safe enough to sleep in your presence, while she has trouble sleeping away from you.

if she didn't feel safe with you, she wouldn't want you near her when its time to sleep.


sleep doesn't come easy with an enemy nearby. she may treat you like an enemy, but she feels safe with you.


"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson
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post #32 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 03:23 PM
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

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Something I noticed quite early on with my BPD SIL, even before I knew about BPD, is that she is a grown woman who needs and craves parenting.

Her husband parents her (as though she is around 5 years old) by styling her hair, choosing her clothes, giving her pocket money for good behaviour, doing everything for her, being over protective, arranging friendships, cooking and cleaning for her.

Even though her mother is in her mid 80's, she still treats her like a small, vulnerable child. SIL cannot care for anyone but needs to be cared for. I have even seen her children overtake her in maturity and have taken on a parental role in her life.

For years I found this all very inappropriate and weird, but now I have read so much about BPD I can now see that 'parenting' her as though she is a small child is what she wants, needs and craves. Whereas I would be highly patronised and irritated if my family were to treat me like this, it certainly seems to be comforting to her. I believe he has worked out this is his effective technique for soothing her.

yep. that dynamic makes them feel safe. i do many of the same things with my wife. style her hair, pick out her clothes, arrange friendships, etc. i also give her tasks to help her gain self confidence in her own abilities. since i am gone a lot, (i have only been home for about nine months out of the last three years) its part of how i take care of her. i want to know she can take care of herself, and i want her to know that she can take care of herself, so that she can let go of much of the anxiety of not having me around. the idea is to make her feel safe enough to grow, and encourage her to grow so as to empower her to live her life to the fullest.

her mother is learning that she can take care of herself. she used to constantly treat her like a child, but my wife has been telling her to back off lately when she oversteps.

"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson
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post #33 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 03:31 PM
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

If you're talking physical safety, I'm pretty harmless. The cat is far more dangerous than me. And she knows that.

Emotional safety, she wouldn't know the meaning of it.

I have wondered about what you wrote, tho. And really can't explain it. She's always been a crappy sleeper, for understandable reasons. But she's not any better sleeper without me. A couple days a week she has a conference call at 600 AM (with overseas). Since she works from home she can wake up at 550 am. Nope. 5 am. And by 8 pm she goes to bed. Now normal days she's gone at 1000 PM.

The cat is gone this week and I'm sure the sleeping arrangements will not change. I require a lot less sleep than she does so...
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post #34 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 03:32 PM
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

Ella ~

I found your initial post quite enlightening. My divorce was final four months ago today after 34 years with a very troubled person.

He was never "officially" diagnosed with a BPD or specifically named a narcissist or sociopath but he exhibits "strong characteristics" of all all three. I was told many professional hesitate to medically declare someone with a personality disorder because too many "symptoms" overlap and very few "patients" will accept their diagnosis and then refuse to work many years in talk therapy.

He was exceedingly selfish and self-centered. He lied more than he told the truth. He was a serial cheater. Played head games. He was COLD. AS. ICE.

Reading your words and sensing your "feelings" on your post, I did not detect someone with BPD. Of course, I've never met you and I am NOT a Psychiatrist or Psychologist.

Many of us are afraid to be alone.

Many people have issues with abandonment or attachments.

I detected a warmth in your post that I never witnessed in my ex-husband.

I wish you the very best.

VH
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post #35 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 03:40 PM
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

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If you're talking physical safety, I'm pretty harmless. The cat is far more dangerous than me. And she knows that.

Emotional safety, she wouldn't know the meaning of it.

I have wondered about what you wrote, tho. And really can't explain it. She's always been a crappy sleeper, for understandable reasons. But she's not any better sleeper without me. A couple days a week she has a conference call at 600 AM (with overseas). Since she works from home she can wake up at 550 am. Nope. 5 am. And by 8 pm she goes to bed. Now normal days she's gone at 1000 PM.

The cat is gone this week and I'm sure the sleeping arrangements will not change. I require a lot less sleep than she does so...
lizard brain stuff. when i was in Baghdad, i had trouble sleeping unless i was sleeping on the ground. even when i had a bed available, i often chose to sleep on the ground because that's how i often slept growing up when i wanted to make sure that my mother would not come in and wake me up in a fit of rage. i would go outside and sleep in the woods. it was safer there.

the situation didnt make it logical, but the lizard brain remembers feeling safe on the ground.

"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson
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post #36 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 03:42 PM
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

That's the thing. I offered a few "kids don't try this at home" examples and Ella does not strike me as a BPD.
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post #37 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 03:48 PM
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

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That's the thing. I offered a few "kids don't try this at home" examples and Ella does not strike me as a BPD.
there are two different types of people. those who are aware, and those who are not. for someone with BPD, its difficult for them to see that their emotions are not reality. but, it is still possible. it usually takes a hell of a lot of safety, or a hell of a painful experience. for my wife, it was a little of both. BPDers can learn awareness just like anyone else can.

from the way you describe your wife, she sounds like she has the awareness level of a rock.

"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson
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post #38 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 04:07 PM
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

Yea, I know.



The self awareness part is the key.
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post #39 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

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That's the thing. I offered a few "kids don't try this at home" examples and Ella does not strike me as a BPD.
-shrug- I dunno. My therapist seems to think so. I do have a lot of unresolved anger and vindictive thoughts that I'm very ashamed to talk about. I secretly have a lot of anger towards former friends who decided I was toxic (read: too needy and too emotionally dependent) and cut me out of their lives.


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post #40 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 04:43 PM
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

Ella - you seem to be (from what you post) a 'quiet' borderline. Acting 'in' rather than acting 'out'. From what I have read quiet borderlines are far more self-aware and respond better to therapy. These borderlines are often more preoccupied with 'love' than anger and hatred. They need to feel love as a way of validation - to fill the chronic feelings of emptiness.

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post #41 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 05:10 PM
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Re: On Cluster B and Borderline

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-shrug- I dunno. My therapist seems to think so. I do have a lot of unresolved anger and vindictive thoughts that I'm very ashamed to talk about. I secretly have a lot of anger towards former friends who decided I was toxic (read: too needy and too emotionally dependent) and cut me out of their lives.
Weeeeellll... BPD aims its actions more towards people closer than friends, people you interact with day in and day out.

As a young adult you're bound to be in a high drama environment at some point, be it bff's, college, work buddies...

I would look to potential BPD behaviors towards immediate people. There's plenty of people I can't stand too. But they don't get into my thinking. They simply don't.

BPD being a spectrum disorder you may want to get some more details.
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