moxy

I'm not suggesting that he has NPD, just that his behavior seems to indicate those tendencies. From what I can see, he is definitely manipulating you and he is very definitely not telling you the truth of his circumstances. No one is ever going to be completely textbook, but the issue isn't whether or not he has a personality disorder, just whether or not this is ever going to be a healthy relationship for you. It is possible, though, that you do not want a healthy relationship. Perhaps you are drawn to this person in order to make sense of some deeply seated psychological issue or concern of your own. We often gravitate toward people in order to have the experiences we want or need to have for some reason.

You say he's not a bad guy and I am not implying that he is, but he is definitely manipulating you. You guys are in your early phase. I assure you that it will intensify over time. You will have less resources and energy to bounce back from your doubts and reservations over time, too. If you're going to continue seeing this guy, please get a counselor or therapist so that you can learn the skills to make this as balanced as possible.

__________________
"He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

"“We first crush people to the earth, & then claim the right of trampling on them forever, because they are prostrate." -Lydia Maria Child.

Subi

Wow if this does not sum it up for you then i dont know what will...you are very intelligent indeed. There is no point crying over the years you lost in an affair... I often say to myself.. Well that is life. I myself have lost 7 years in an abusive relationship with a psyco who wont seek help..very much the pig in the mud scenario. Am still stuck in it but am on the way out. I finally see the light and am in a better place now thanks to this forum than i was a month ago. Welll said omega
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headingthere

I did it. I said I'd had enough. Note "said." Of course I TOLD him. It would have been stronger just to be gone, without announcing it. But I needed closure and to get some things off my chest. So I told him what I thought about his way of "loving." He has not responded and I dont think he will. But I'm not upset. A little sad... But not broken up. He was not good for me. THANK YOU, Omega and Mox. PS - please watch this space, though. I don't know whether I'll crash.

headingthere

And Subi, too. Thank you. This forum has been an incredible help to me. Just learning about relationships and how to relate in a healthy way. I DO want to try therapy because, as was suggested above, this is not the first time I've been drawn into a manipulative relationship. I always get out alive... but alone.

omega

Sending you hugs and warm thoughts... it can't have been easy, I know. Deep down you know you deserve to be with someone who lifts you up higher, not with someone who pulls you down. Perhaps this will be the 'eye-opener' for him to get himself some help, or maybe it won't happen this time, who knows. Try not to be distressed if he doesn't contact you right away, or even for a while - or ever. Focus on you - seeing friends, enjoying spring, whatever you like to do. Go easy on yourself. Relationships like the one you were in occupy so much of our concept of self that unplugging from them leaves us feeling a little 'out there.' Just be patient with yourself. And know that there's a lady on the other side of the world (me) who thinks you're one strong woman! Hugs to you...

moxy

If by some miracle, he happens to be the kind of guy that is willing to change for you, you might see this in action in days to come. If he does not do so, then you will know you have made the right choice. You have chosen to be strong enough to stand up for yourself and that is important. Being in a one-sided relationship comes with a lot of pain. If you're seeking something from a person that the person is unwilling to give you, despite stringing you along to indicate that it might be possible down the road, you won't be able to meet your own needs, because you're caught in a game. You'd also be enabling that person to continue destructive patterns. You've made the right choice for this moment in time. Definitely see a good therapist, I recommend a Jungian Analyst or a Postmodern Narrative Therapist because those might be likely to root out the causes behind your attachment to people who manipulate you rather than just urge you toward normative behaviors.

__________________
"He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

"“We first crush people to the earth, & then claim the right of trampling on them forever, because they are prostrate." -Lydia Maria Child.

headingthere

Not crashing!!!! I wanted so much to call him last night and apologize, but I didn't. I reread my email to him and realized I'd said it right. This morning was the first time in weeks that I didn't wake up at 3am. Friends - I hope I can call you that - this has been such a wake- up call. It has been years since I've been in a serious relationship... In fact, I think there has been only one man in my entire life whom I loved. I really thought I was ready to try again. But the addiction kicked in fast and furious. I need to be *perfect* or he won't love me, and I can be perfect only by being someone I'm not. What a cycle. I do hope there is a good therapist around here. I live in a small, fairly depressed city. Not much going on around here. There seem to be a lot of cognitive-based social workers...
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moxy

Be strong enough to stick to your resolve. If you're desperate to write to him, write an email to him that is actually addressed to be sent to yourself (like instead of his email address, key in your own so it comes to you and you can put them in a folder). It curbs that urge to reach out and connect. And, it will function as a sort of diary, these unsent letters, and you may have them later to help you sort through your thoughts and feelings when you are seeing your dynamics more clearly.

__________________
"He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

"“We first crush people to the earth, & then claim the right of trampling on them forever, because they are prostrate." -Lydia Maria Child.

omega

I actually used to do what Moxy suggests - write letters to him but never sent. It can indeed help but you have to be careful that you are not letting the 'connection' to him perpetuate itself indefinitely because of the letters. I have a whole folder on my computer with subfolders that hold all the written correspondence we EVER had (chats and emails). I decided not to delete them in case there are ever legal reasons that I need them - like if his wife sues me for alienation of affection, I can prove that he told me he was married - and I also have those letters I wrote to myself. I haven't opened them in years - I can't bring myself to do so, I'm too embarrassed on my own behalf.

THANK THE UNIVERSE I never sent them TO him.

Actually I did send him one. While we were still 'in contact.' He avoided me for an entire calendar year afterwards. I finally saw him again and asked him if he ever got the letter. He said yes. (I had convinced myself that he had never received it. It was full of 'I love you and can't live w/o you' b.s. and way , way worse.) It was BAD, I realize now - but at the time I didn't understand how he could read that and ignore me for an entire year. Don't put yourself in that position, wondering if he got it, why he isn't writing back. The main result of doing it is that you don't have closure to the relationship because you are still waiting on him to write back.

I used to have a rule (my own personal rule) that if I contacted him, I would not contact him again until he contacted me. Sort of like 'the ball is in his court.' My own personal pride prohibited me from 'chasing after him'. Thank goodness. Otherwise I probably would have bombarded him - which would only have made ME feel worse - both during, and now afterwards when I look back. At least now I can say "at least it was only one really bad letter." (Actually there were others, but there was only the one that he ignored.)

I bet that if you do write some letters that you keep for yourself, and never send to him, and read them a year or so from now, you'll say "wow, was that really me? Ugh!!!"

My pride helped me a lot, to keep me from making a fool of myself. It was effective for me to say to myself "If you send this, you will just look desperate." Try that, it might help you too.

It gets easier with every day - the "fog" that you're in (not the same as the "affair fog" that is usually discussed on this site, but a fog nonetheless) will start to dissipate. You may end up redfaced by the whole ordeal like I did. Better embarrassed than stuck in a hopeless depressing relationship with a person who isn't even present. I'm not surprised he hasn't said anything - don't expect him to. He's probably 'handling it' completely from his own point of view - how depressed HE is and so on. I doubt he's thinking much about how this whole thing has affected you. So, that's your job. Take care of YOU now!!

Subi

good for you, headingthere' it is true that our own mental shortcomings make us attracted to the wrong people and we are often not aware of them. When i look back at the time when i met my psyco, i was not in the right place mentally. Now i realse i suffered depression low self esteem and wasstruggling to fit in. I felt a need to belong and to feel loved and accepted. So when this abusive man came along i was easy prey. Now i look back and realise that anyone in their rightful mind would never have been attracted to such a dodgy man. But coz of the low self esteem you find yoself convincing yoself and calling yoself lucky. You need to dig deeper with counselling what about you that keeps drawing you into this cycle. I also need to work on my esteem issues coz not long ago i realised i was being sucked in again by this other man who only sees me as an opportunity to make money. I stopped myself just in time and since then am beginning to seriously look into my esteem and self worth issues. Good luck.
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headingthere

I do write a lot - my longest piece is a self-booster that details all of the things wrong with this relationship! I haven't needed to reread it yet; it's all pretty fresh in my mind! I understand that one letter you wish you hadn't sent; I've sent plenty of emails that I regretted in the morning. But, you know, I really feel a sea change from having told him the truth. I feel power over HIM, like I now control the shots. Not the best dynamic, I know, but it works for me for now. (wish that therapist would return my call!)
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moxy

Better to have power over yourself than anyone else, lest you become an abuser of trusts in turn out of spite or resentment.

Call a different therapist. You want someone who you know will be there for you when you need them. If you're stuck waiting for an initial call back, getting appointments might be hard to do, too. Shop around. You might not always find the right therapist/counselor immediately. I never really thought I needed a therapist until my life fell apart. I tried four different ones before I found the right fit, so go with your instincts. If you don't feel like the person is understanding you or responding in a way that makes sense to you (distinction: telling you what you want to hear isn't what you're looking for because you want someone to help you, not just be a cheerleader or puppy dog), then try someone else. Just something to think about as you consider your relationship to power and agency over yourSELF.

__________________
"He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

"“We first crush people to the earth, & then claim the right of trampling on them forever, because they are prostrate." -Lydia Maria Child.

omega

how are you doing, headingthere? thinking about you

headingthere

I’ve stayed offline because I had a FAIL and I was (am) embarrassed about it. He did respond to my “good-bye” email – I thought I saw a door opening for change, and I responded in kind. But it was no better. Still oblique, obscure. I stayed aloof; wasn’t just acting – actually feel that way – but the interaction was EXACTLY the same. He sent desperate love messages, but did not address the simple points I had made in my email. I finally said we need to talk. Called him this morning and he did not answer. I’d had it! I said good-bye AGAIN. Omega, what I really think about him is that he is schizophrenic. Maybe that makes me feel better, thinking he can’t control himself rather than that he is consciously manipulative. But I’ve seen so much that says psychotic to me. The weird pictures, communicating so frequently in poetry and prose. And when we first met, he sent me long and detailed lists about what he liked (including specific brands of tea), what he read, and what he collected. I first thought OCD, which made a lot of sense given the type of writing that he does (very meticulous and organized, like encyclopedias), but now I wonder whether it reflected his need to keep a tight control over his reality. He also seems to have periodic episodes…. He once said “is a time of great sadness, nothing serious, when this happens to me I become blind and deaf and I can not speak, I need silence ... it's like being in a cage, it is necessary for me to be patient, I have to slow down and wait ...” I want him to get some MEDS, but I can’t say that to him. And he doesn’t seem to be helping himself (“nothing serious”… really?) There is really nothing more I can do for this man, and there clearly is nothing he can do for me… The advise is still RUN, right? I have my first therapy appointment a week from Monday….

omega

Please don't beat yourself up for this. You're human, it's totally reasonable that breaking off all contact with someone you've cared about for some time is extremely difficult.

I think sometimes we need a few tries to make sure that we KNOW, for our own sense of thoroughness or something, that we have done what we could and that there is nothing more we can do for them. This man is troubled but like I've said earlier, what he needs is not a lover, he needs psychological support, therapy, and most likely medicine.

One of the most frustrating things to deal with is when you feel like you can't take anymore, so you say "get mental help," and they retreat a bit, act more normal, in order to show you that they don't need help; their better behavior sucks you back in until they relax and go back to the ill behavior. It's a cycle and it gets to the point where he is manipulating you purely in order to harm himself. It's pointless and it does no one any good - not you, not him.

He may not feel ready to end the relationship right now, thus the desperate messages. It sucks for him, true. But he's not the only person in the relationship and if he can't recognize that you haven't been getting what you need out of that relationship, he's not listening to any of what you're saying.

Be strong... you can do it! His problems are treatable - but not by you. Just keep reminding yourself: "I am not his psychiatrist... I am not his psychiatrist..." HUGS to you, dear.