headingthere

My SO is a brilliant and accomplished man. He is “difficult” in many ways - self-absorbed, often lost in the esoteric, compulsive in his work – but, towards me has always been passionate, warm, and respectful. I love him dearly, and am comfortable with his unusual ways. Recently, however, he has turned dark and unreachable. Is he is headed toward self-destruction? If so, can I help him survive?

He is beset with difficult life changes – bitter settlement discussions with his STBXW of 27 years (I suspect he did not want the divorce); kids left nest; completion of manuscript that took six years to write (a process he likened to delivering a baby after a long, difficult labor). In addition, he has been rejected from jobs that are geographically closer to me. (We are long distance and have never lived together.) A recipe for depression...

Recently, he has stopped calling and his emails have become sporadic. When he does write, it’s terse and, to me, filled with despair – “Troubled days…” There are recurring themes of death and hopelessness in his communications, photos of odd things that mean nothing, total withdrawals from communication, … yet I am subtly chastised – sometimes by silence – no matter how I respond. For example, this morning he sent me a poem about grieving a dead wife and wishing for death. It was beautiful, but it was about suicide! He did not answer his phone (not unusual) so I sent him an email acknowledging how brutal and lengthy grieving can be. I was careful, as always, thinking empathy was the right approach. But no. His response: “Sweet [my name], it was simply a wonderful poem… simply that.” What could I say to that? I lamely responded “that’s the nurturer in me…” but the conversation was ended. He, who once said “how can you know me so well - it’s like you’re living in my heart and mind,” now makes me feel stupid and misguided (or overly analytical) if I even try to acknowledge his sadness. He seems to reach out, but cannot accept love and support. I am becoming increasingly afraid that he will leave me if I "misunderstand" him one more time. I am getting angry, too.

If anyone out there has experience with a personality/situation like this, I would be very grateful to hear…

omega

Wow. This post is giving me goosebumps. I went through something different but with a guy who sounds extremely similar to yours. [Edit: when I first posted this I said my experience was extremely similar - but I hope it's not - I do see major similarities in your guy and the guy I was with, but after writing my post I think my situation reflects way worse on me than anything you wrote about you so I changed it to reflect that!] I suppose I should give you the backstory. It's quite sordid and I'm very ashamed/disgusted of the part I played in it.

I was 23, and was in a very dark place personally (close family member murdered, major life changes, huge stresses) and was given a lot of attention (online) by a man whom I found very fascinating - he was older, brilliant, shared my interests, and seemed to really 'get' me. At first it was just online and anonymous so he shared a lot with me, about his divorce, depression, etc. Eventually we met in real life and it became physical, he claimed that he had impotence and I had 'cured' it (we did have sex). He also claimed not to have a cell phone or home phone, but he called me ALL the time from work or from his second or third house (he had like six house) so I didn't think too much of it. We saw each other rarely but we talked online or on the phone daily. Then one day he just disappeared, didn't hear from him for a week.

At that point, I had convinced myself I was in love with him, but really I was ill. I had become obsessed with him and with my being with him. I had so many things going on in my life and his age and position (he was in a very, very high-up position that I respected immensely) I somehow looked to him to 'save' me or something, who knows. With him not having a cell phone or home phone, I couldn't call him - I wouldn't call him at work because of his position. Anyway, by the end of that week I was looking at the obituaries online to see if he was dead. He finally contacted me and I asked what was going on and I was worried, and he gave me the same lines you're getting about the darkness and despair and being in the depths, and I've lived my life and so on.

I was so far gone in my obsession that this continued for FIVE YEARS. He slept with other women, he would go up to a year without seeing me or contacting me but then as soon as he did it would be all just like no time had passed.

Finally one day I just realized that I was throwing my life away. My 20s were over, I was alone, had zero self esteem or self worth, I had been a 'secret' for years and nothing to show for it. I was still obsessed with him though so I told him to make a choice, me or not me. He said he'd think about it and call me.

Immediately after I gave him this ultimatum, in my distress about the whole thing, I ran off for a weekend just to get away from it all. I had a friend who I never saw but who was a nice guy who had just moved to a very quiet rural area that I had always wanted to visit, and I had a standing invitation to go there. It so happened that he was on Skype that day and we chatted and I told him that I was down and he suggested I go to hang out and get away from it all. So I went... and we hit it off like the big bang. I couldn't believe how normal and healthy he was and still incredibly attractive to me on every level. I could see he was falling for me but I felt this thing holding me back and finally, after 5 years, I told someone about my 'secret affair' with the old guy. Within a day he had discovered that the old guy was MARRIED and he helped me piece things together that in my obsessed mind I had managed to ignore, and it became extremely obvious that he had lied about everything - I was being used for sex and an emotional crutch and to make an old (rich and high-up) loser feel good about himself.

Well to cut the whole thing short, I married the good guy a few months later and our marriage is the most fulfilling and joyful thing I could ever have imagined. The old guy emailed me about a month after the ultimatum to ask me if I wanted to see him (booty call I guess) and I just blew him off. I never heard from him again. I assume he found out through various channels that I got married though I have no idea. If I ever saw him again on the street, I'd duck into a shop or whatever to avoid him seeing me. He probably doesn't even know I know he's married. Don't know, don't care.

My experience has taught me several things:

- even though I believed myself to be intelligent, sensitive, and in touch, I was painfully naive and didn't understand that I was being lied to, manipulated, used, and treated like trash.

- even after I did put some of it together, I was so obsessed that I thought it was okay. I even told him "I don't mind if you sleep with other women as long as I get to see you sometimes too." I had no concept of how I was debasing myself. Now I can only feel sadness for myself at that time.

- people who are brilliant are good liars. My husband is a genius too - one of the things that attracted me to him was his intellect - but there's a difference between a man who publishes a good paper and a man who lives entirely in his own genius world and can't relate to other human beings in a healthy way. Geniuses CAN be psychologically balanced, but it's rather rare! Having experienced both, you owe it to yourself to hold out for a balanced specimen.

- which leads me to: no one chooses to be depressed/suicidal, BUT if you have the choice whether to be with someone who is depressed/suicidal, and who is not actively seeking treatment (for real), RUN. The old dude said he had "iatrophobia" (clinical fear of doctors/hospitals) which prevented him from seeking help for his depression - it was to the point that I offered to visit a psychologist FOR HIM and pretend to have all his symptoms to get a prescription for him (thank goodness he turned me down on that). Of course we later discovered that his secret wife was actually a psychologist herself. I couldn't make this crap up if I tried. RUN.

- and finally, RUN. This guy is bad news. PLEASE don't be like me. I threw away my 20s waiting for a depressed old man to be in the mood to treat me like trash. All because I convinced myself that I was desperately, head over heels, beyond all reason, in love with him. Now that I'm married, I am in a position to say: I was absolutely NOT in love. Love does NOT mean waiting by the phone for days, or obsessively checking email, or wondering if he's alive. Love is moving your hand three inches to the left in the middle of ANY given night to feel him reaching for you too. Please don't make the huge mistake I did.

The one biggest regret in my life is that I blew off my now-husband five years before we reconnected because I was so in la-la land with the old guy that I couldn't see what was right in front of me. My H sometimes wistfully mentions the years we lost. Thank goodness he is a totally balanced individual who spent HIS 20s (those years we lost) having a great time in healthy relationships and enjoying his life.

RUN.

omega

incidentally the old dude even talked like your guy talks. at the time I loved it, now it makes my stomach churn. even reading your short quotes. this stuff is fake fake fake. it's so easy for them to come up with too.

I hope I'm wrong. But I fear I'm not. Please post additional details if you think it will help.

headingthere

Posted via Mobile Device

headingthere

Omega- thank you so much for your reply. I want to read it more carefully when I am online later today. This is scary...
Posted via Mobile Device

headingthere

Omega – again, thank you so much for the time you took to tell me about your experience. It has stopped me cold – struggling with insight here! Unlike you, I am older (50s) [had to smile at your calling the other guy the “old dude”] and am in a very stable and secure place in my life; have had good relationships with men…. Still, none of that matters if I’m blinding myself to what this relationship is all about.
Of course I do not want to believe I don’t love him, and I don’t want to believe he is lying – I could go through all of the things I’ve done to check out his credentials – but where does that leave me? Best case scenario? With a man who can’t communicate in ways I can understand – more photos today, including a surreal couch made of cactus and St. Jude – and who, if he needs help, will not get it. What am I thinking? You know; you said it in your post. Self-affirmation… I must be worthwhile if a man like this has chosen me. But there’s more, and this is what I’m struggling with most. He has mastered things I WANT to understand and appreciate better – I love to read, but he has 40,000 books; I love music, but he’s got 7000 cds; I love art, but have never heard of the artists he’s intimately familiar with. He somehow managed to learn about the world – the entire world, it seems – while succeeding as a scientist. What kind of rare creature is this; is there another like him?
But what’s the reality of trying to live with an almost mythical man who can’t communicate even in the BEST of times, when he is NOT having his “dark moments” [assuming for the sake of this discussion that he’s telling the truth about them]? He “shares” beautiful music or poetry with me – but without any explanation of WHY he sent me one thing and not another, or why certain things are meaningful to him. It was an exciting challenge at first, seeing if I had the wits and wherewithal to speak his language. (LITERALLY a problem when he sends me messages in one of the four languages in which he’s fluent and I’m not.) But it started to change… It was such hard work. WORSE, I started to feel inferior because he seemed to expect me to understand and assimilate and I COULDN’T.
And that was the state of affairs BEFORE he became almost mute in his sadness [again, crediting him with truthfulness].
Seems clear that I should RUN? If he is beyond the line that separates genius from “madness,” how can I ever be happy with him? He gets over his depression, maybe, and then what?
On the other hand [conflict, conflict], how do I abandon a dream? It took me 56 years to find this man… [But WHY have I created such an ideal that I think only a man as gifted as this SO can satisfy me?]
Also struggling with the fact that I have not even told him how alienated I’ve become. Haven’t even given him a chance to try harder. How fair is that, especially when I’m criticizing his lack of communication?
I’m not thinking clearly enough yet…

moxy

Your SO's disposition sounds like mine, so I'll offer suggestions based on what would work on me, etc...

Wait out the mood without pressuring him to explain what's wrong or demanding more energy than he has to give. Give him the love and admiration that you alone offer him and you will remain special to him. Send him small notes about your day and mention when you thought of him. Tell him you love him and that he is special and don't do it with any expectations. Don't try to fix his problems for him. Don't assume he is falling apart. Pressuring him to be more emotionally giving will make him retreat further and resent you more. You ARE being over-analytical and you're coming too close to coddling him. If he sends you a weird cryptic message, don't assume you know what it means and respond accordingly, ask instead; this will make him want to open up to you more, make him feel like you want to know what is on his mind. Likely, his mind is very full or chaotic right now and he feels like he has to control it and keep it contained so he doesn't burst open and so he is not sharing as much as you might want because that is dangerous to his sense of composure. Stop misunderstanding and being reactionary because he will stop opening up to you; instead, welcome and invite open-ness through inquiry and levity. He is indicating to you that he needs space but also needs to feel welcome to return, that you won't disappear while he is visiting the darkness inside himself. Expect this kind of behavior to come and go in waves forever but with more intensity over time. Your SO will be intense and emotionally high maintenance, probably always. It is possible that his connection to "reality" is somewhat more tenuous than yours and if so, you will need to be an anchor for him, which means you can't be insecure -- but, that is is what your post is indicating you are in this context and this will probably not be good for you. In some ways, it is a test; I'd say that if this is too much for you, let him go because this will only intensify. Now, all of this assumes that he isn't lying to you about the reality of his life.

On the other hand....he's older, going through a divorce, being really shady. He's keeping something from you. I'd suggest you do a little bit of background checking to find out of he really is as divorced as he says he is. He may just be using you and this may be an affair. Don't get too attached because he's giving you signals to indicate that he doesn't want you to be too attached. Why do I say this? Because even though this is what I'm like as a person, I fought it every day to be cheerful and emotionally giving to my husband as much as I could be, even when I didn't have the energy to be decent to myself. He is keeping you at a distance for some reason, whether because he isn't ready for more or because he's just using you or because he is lying about something very big (being incommunicado + being impatient with your "misunderstandings" is a bad sign, and one that means he's not being honest or forthcoming with you about something substantial). He's getting something out of his relationship with you, but he does not want to deepen his commitment. You look like you're trying to deepen that commitment and I would advise you against it; if successful, such a pursuit will make him more accommodating or present, but will not unlock his intimacy further and will instead freeze it up and, if unsuccessful, you will build an attachment that is very deep and if he up and walks away one day, you'll feel very broken and he won't feel a thing. I think you are fascinated by him, but it looks like he is unwilling (not incapable, as he's choosing this) to offer you a love that will be fulfilling. Tread lightly.

omega

He was an old dude haha he was at least 25 years older than I was! Can you imagine at your age being with a 23 yr old boy? Age is entirely relative - but a 25 yr age difference is a lot! That should have been a big red flag to me but I was so impressed by all his accomplishments and brilliance... Anyway, here are just a few simple questions and see how easy they are to answer. Hint: the 'correct' answer to all these questions, is "um, of COURSE, are you kidding me???"

1. Do you spend time together with mutual friends from HIS world - i.e., with his colleagues, other people from the university (or whatever)?

2. When he's invited to a black tie gala in honor of some great Nobel prize winner (or whatever crud he gets invited to) are you on his arm? Or does he give you the line about how much he hates such things and he isn't going to decide until the very last moment if he goes, and he gets so uncomfortable at these things that he just wants to go alone?

3. Have you met his children? Do they know (obviously know) that you are with their father in a relationship?

4. Do you spend time at his house - and is the house that he calls his house appropriate considering his station in life? (A house with antiques, not a bachelor apartment.)

I went through this too. The truth is, you are worthwhile anyway. With or without him, you are the same amount of worthwhile. You've written fifteen paragraphs and it's obvious you're an intelligent, sensitive, caring, loving, giving, nurturing woman who wants to believe in someone she respects and loves. There should be more people like you in the world. That has nothing to do with him.

My AP (AP=affair partner, I thought I was in a relationship but it was an affair for him as I later discovered, I will use this acronym for him because he deserves it) was like that too. When we would talk, I would take notes and write down authors' names and titles. I had a reading list based off our chats. It was several pages long. I went on Amazon and ordered a whole pile of books and started reading them. Some of them were really good. He used to (predictably considering the age difference of about a century) call me "Lolita" and make other such references so I thought I should actually read Nabokov's Lolita, after all it's considered the best English-language novel of the 20th century. Not long after that I replied to one of his "Lolita" pet names by calling him Humbert Humbert (Lolita's ancient lover) and he had no idea what I was talking about. You can't read Lolita and not remember Humbert Humbert. It's not a forgettable name, for one thing. I had to explain that he was the narrator of the book that he was always referring to. He said "oh of course, senior moment." Yeah, whatever. I'm not saying he hasn't read a lot, but a lot of it is just smoke and mirrors too. He would send me poetry also - usually with no context. I would spend hours trying to figure out why he had sent each poem and what he was trying to tell me. I never got anywhere with that. I did discover some good poets that way, but I never got anywhere closer to understanding what on earth he was on about.

Ask yourself this: are you living WITH him, or are you living as a satellite to him?

I wouldn't doubt that his dark moments are real. I still believe that my AP was in fact mentally disturbed, and there is plenty of darkness to go around among the mentally disturbed. But the issue is HOW he handles them (is he getting actual real in-the-world psychological help that even a person of borderline intelligence should know about? or is he full of convincing reasons why he's a rare exception to the magical world of drugs and therapy?) Does he use these darker moments to manipulate his relationship with you so that he controls what he gets out of it and leaves you in a role of "giving everything, when allowed to give; put on ice when not allowed to"?

Being with a brilliant man is like an intellectual orgasm. I know. Been there, had lots of them. It's a hard drug. It was not easy to drop in my case - in my case, it took having someone basically pry my eyes open with a crowbar before I could see what was really happening.

We could be talking about the same man. Except in my case, he wasn't American (I am) and I spoke his language really well as a second language, which was how we initially hit it off. So he would come up with these puns - he would do like 10-20 puns in a row, it would become a game of language oneupmanship, who can make the most clever reply, who can make the most esoteric reference or use the most arcane language, who will 'win this round'? It was FUN. I enjoyed that a lot. If I'm fair with myself, I usually won - but I never gave myself credit, I always felt like I was chasing after his gallivanting intellect. Like my lines were substandard and his were a display of pure genius. In retrospect, it wasn't like that. I doubt any of that would have been possible if we weren't basically on the same intellectual level the whole time, which I suspect is the same in your case. The degrees, the bibliography, the named chairs or whatever the hell he gets off on in his world, is probably fooling you into thinking that you are chasing after his intellect like I thought I was. And even if you are - you're obviously keeping his interest so you're not far behind. (I beat myself up a lot less about it than you may be tempted to because he was so much older, it was less stressful to compete with him because the obvious assumption was of course he knows more / is better, at his age.)

It is extremely likely that the reason you couldn't understand/assimilate what he was saying is that he was saying things that were nonsensical. Put that in your pipe and smoke it! (Seriously -- consider it.)

I don't want to say something like "no one should ever marry a depressed man" because that's terrible. TONS of people have depression. But there is a huge difference between a depressed man who goes to therapy and is working with a psychiatrist to get medicated properly so he can function as best as he can; and a depressed man who revels in his own depression like a pig in mud. The first is a candidate for a relationship. The second isn't ready to be in a relationship with another person - he needs to get right with himself before he can be with another person. How can you be happy WITH him? The million dollar question. I suspect that a person who cannot be happy with himself cannot be in a relationship with a person who is also happy with him. I suspect, I don't know.

IF he gets treatment, IF he continues treatment. People who have clinical depression usually have it forever - with treatment they can lead normal lives, but without it? Not ready for prime time as they say.

This was the hardest part for me. I'm a relatively intelligent individual and yet I ignored the five hundred huge red flashing lightbulbs going off in front of my face for FIVE YEARS because I thought I would NEVER find another man like him in my whole life. I didn't think it; I was certain. Ultimately I discovered, to my relief/ecstasy, that, well, I found a better one - but also, it was just a dream. He wasn't all the things I made him out to be. Maybe he was some of them, some of the time. But what "us" really meant was that I was tied to a man who could never be happy, never be "present" on all levels, who would never be "mine" (and admitted it openly - I was the one with the problem accepting it), and who nurtured his own misery like a prize orchid.

You haven't told him because he has you walking on eggshells with him. You're afraid to say the wrong thing to push him deeper into depression or just simply to push him further from you (longer periods of time between contact). Does that sound right? If it is, consider that you may have become addicted to this man. I know, it sounds wacky - but it's not that hard to become 'addicted' to a man/relationship when they provide us with things that we attach a ridiculously high value to, but those things are given sporadically, never enough, and along with a lot of pain too. I sometimes compared what I was feeling to a heroin addict lying in a dirty gutter somewhere taking a hit - everything about the situation was objectively bad, and yet I was getting something I found immensely valuable, that was hard to get, and unreliable, but put me over the moon when I got it - but it was sucking me dry in every way, especially emotionally.

We're talking about two different men (oh lord I hope so hahaha!) and there is no way to know how similar or dissimilar they may be. But I will say this much: you are way ahead of where I was. Many times I thought about finding a forum like this one, or some other, and posting about what was going on - but I knew that I wouldn't be able to make anyone else understand (1) how in love I was and how perfect he was and how I'd never find anyone like him and (2) how my situation was so incredibly unique and special because he was so amazing. I knew I wouldn't get "good" advice because no one would really grasp how perfect he was. The fact that you are able not only to ask for advice but to read it with an open mind means you are not nearly as far gone as I was. If I had received a reply like what I wrote to you up above, I would have given at least 20 reasons why my AP was nothing like that (and yet that was exactly what he was).

My AP was a tortured soul with a brilliant mind. That's okay. But until he gets professional help (he could start by asking his wife hahahaha) he isn't ready to be in a relationship with another person. I suspect that - regardless of how much of what he is feeding you is sincere - your guy is probably also not ready to be in a healthy relationship with another person. I am 99% sure that if you asked him, he'd probably agree. But I wouldn't be surprised if you're terrified to ask him.

omega

What about her needs?

What about her desire to communicate with her partner in a healthy and balanced way?

What about her desire to be in a relationship that is not a revolving door?

What about her need for security and an anchor in her life?

Is it possible to be secure under these circumstances?

It may be a test, in some respects all relationships are a test until a marriage proposal happens, I guess. If so, this is a test that no one should have to pass.

I agree. Something is off.

My advice in this instance would be just let him go. He's not ready to be in a relationship. Digging in his background is going to be hard for you to do emotionally and probably practically (he's probably good at covering his tracks) and you may end up with feelings of guilt. And if you discover he is married? How will you feel? That was a horrible burden for me when I found out because I really, really respect the institution of marriage, always wanted to be married, always KNEW I would never be unfaithful to my husband - and BAM there I was, the Other Woman. Can you handle that if it's true? Do you feel like you should have to deal with it at all?



Yes!

There's a reason why we talk about the 'walking on eggshells' concept so much on this forum - it's a HUGE red flag of a doomed relationship. I would be seriously impressed if you could do all the things in the first half of your post without feeling like you had to constantly self-edit and self-censor and self-suppress. Which are all bad things in a relationship.

One of the worst things that can come out of a relationship like this one is the depression can actually spread to the non-depressed partner. I know - it happened to me. I was a bundle of stress when we met but I wasn't depressed. I became so "initiated" into his "dark world" through his constant harping on it that I actually became depressed myself.

(A big difference between us was that I then went to therapy and got better and got on with it.)

Telling her to "stop misunderstanding and becoming reactionary" - this to me is basically telling her to walk on the dreaded eggshells. I strongly disagree with this advice. This advice MAY keep her in this relationship indefinitely but it is NOT the key to a healthy relationship of equals (regardless of whether one person is full professor of quantum physics and the other is a hotel maid, they should be equal partners in their own relationship).

I have to repeat this part:Does this mean that she should sit around and wait for him to be in the mood to be a partner, and then, snap of fingers, she should be there with levity, but not too much inquiry because we wouldn't want to overdo it and scare him off... and not only that, but she should be prepared for this to happen constantly and get worse?

Moxy, I think what you say in your first paragraph ... all those things are things she has probably been trying to do and is feeling exhausted by. He can expect these things of her. It's up to her to decide if she wants to give them. But these are the hallmarks of a deeply unhealthy relationship. She may not be ready to have a healthy relationship - I wasn't for years and I knew it - but if the 'answer' to her is "walk on eggshells"... that isn't fair to her.

headingthere

Posted via Mobile Device

headingthere

My eyes are killing me trying to read this on my iPhone! Thank you thank you both for talking to me... I recognize so much truth in what is being said, both sides. I have to go to work - traveling today and tomorrow and not online - but thinking about EVERYTHING
Posted via Mobile Device

moxy

The first paragraph would be how to keep him from going away. I would not suggest that OP do these things. They are self-effacing things that do not consider her needs at all. It is exhausting to live entirely for someone else and walking on eggshells truly sucks, but I paint the bleak picture intentionally to show that it will be just that. It is an option, just not a likely appealing option for OP. However, given the way she has described this relationship, he isn't going to stick around for any other reason than to keep using her. So those are her two choices: 1)allow herself to be used and erased, or 2)recognize that this is not healthy and step back. I don't think that OP will find this relationship healthy or fulfilling and in my opinion, she should take a step back from it until and unless he makes an effort to be less of a shady narcissist.

In my opinion, it is likely that he is a little outside of reality. He's playing head games with her. It gives him a thrill. That's why he's sending the cryptic, mysterious messages...so he can be mysterious and therefore keep her in his thrall by employing manipulative and unpredictable behaviors to keep her on her toes. It is also unlikely that he is going to change for the better. I think these mood cycles will probably continue unpredictably and will deepen in intensity over time; his need for her to be an anchor will increase and her inability to be an anchor will also increase. The relationship is most likely going to become parasitic if it hasn't already. I suggest that if OP doesn't want to erase herself entirely, she resist the fascination that draws her toward him and prevent herself from becoming more enmeshed. I suspect OP has had other people in her life that take advantage and exploit boundaries.

This would be a useful website to read: http://samvak.tripod.com/malignantselflove.html

headingthere

Talk about goose bumps – that’s what I got when I read your detailed and thoughtful replies. (A “shady narcissist” – that one really got to me.) So toxic… I was angry at him when I read, and took to heart, your comments.

But I am still hoping… I feel that I need to explain to you that he is not as consciously bad as I’ve made him sound.

I see many hallmarks of narcissism in my SO, but he doesn’t seem like the classic NPD. He is not at all self-aggrandizing; in fact, he has never spoken about his achievements. He has referenced them only as a context for his mood – e.g., feeling lost because he has no big project to work on (“I lack the fever and the deep pleasure of aimed research…”). He mentioned his collection of CDs and books just once, as one of the difficulties of his property settlement – they are all in the marital house, and he has no access to them. He has even said explicitly that he knows he is not giving as much to me as he should, and seems ashamed by it, referring to himself as an idiot…. Says he does not want to imprison me… I do not believe he is getting pleasure from manipulating me…

That’s not to say this is, or ever will be, a healthy relationship. But I just can’t walk away. IF he is truly depressed, as I believe he is, I feel as though I would be the worst kind of person if I just suddenly disappeared after having said (repeatedly) “I am here for you.” But I DO feel strong enough to step back and re-assess. I needed the reality check that you guys have given me! Last few days I’ve backed off and I feel empowered by it. I am really OK by myself! I don’t think he could possibly eviscerate me because I’ve been strong all my life and don’t feel any less equipped now. I have never stayed in a situation that made me unhappy or insecure; I just move on. And I will do that here, too, in time. I don’t think it will be too long at this rate…

As to why I invest so much in a man who’s unavailable to me… I need to tackle that.

omega

This sounds exactly like my former AP. While I was infatuated with him, I never searched for psychological terms to describe him (like 'narcissist') and just accepted at face-value his description of himself (manic-depression). Of course once I snapped out of it, I couldn't care less, so this thread is the first time I've really read about narcissists. I guess he could be one, or not. Who knows. What matters is how the relationship affects the people in it - does it contribute to a deeply satisfying life or does it take away from that life? Your guy sounds like mine in that mine was 'modest' and constantly put himself down (all the time, I'm worthless, I'm nothing, I've accomplished nothing, I never had children because I don't deserve to, etc).

Why does he have NO access to the house? WTH happened with his wife that there is SO much animosity between them that he isn't even allowed in the house to get his books? There are always two sides to any story, and as much as he may love to paint an evil picture of the woman who stood by his side close to three decades and raised his children, you shouldn't buy into it wholesale. SHE has a side of the story too that you're probably not hearing - have you met her?

I heard this daily. "The guilt is crushing me... I want you to find a man your age / you are just at the beginning, you should be with someone you can discover life with" but at the same time, not letting me go (which I also didn't want to cut myself loose of course, I was as sick as he was in some ways). This is standard talk from these guys as you see.

Yes, actually, you can. That is what I did and it turned out to be the single thing that led me to a life of true happiness, fulfillment, love, and self-love. I didn't know that's what would happen and granted I had to sink to depths you haven't reached, but walking away gave me a whole new life.

You won't be. You need to take care of yourself especially if he is NOT taking care of you (everyone should take care of themselves anyway). You would not be a bad person at all. He's been given the opportunity to accept the help you've offered but you are NOT his psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist. I repeat: you are not his doctor. If he is not lying to you, the help he needs is professional at this point. Give him a list of phone numbers of mental health professionals if you feel so inclined, and then let him know that you have helped him as much as a layperson can.

Of course you are. Being with him, bombarded by his weakness, is going to sap you of your strength too, it's only natural. It's not surprising at all that a few days away from it, you feel better. You deserve to feel great, though. I wouldn't be surprised if he himself has told you that "I can't give myself completely to anyone, I'm not capable of a healthy relationship, I feel so guilty, you would be better off without me." When someone tells you that you would be better off without them, believe them.

I wish you strength. NO ONE is saying it will be easy. It will NOT be easy. You know from experience though that sometimes the hardest choice is the right one.

Probably there's something there. Maybe there's not. I got engaged to my now-husband pretty much immediately after shaking off the AP and we could not be happier. So I don't believe that everyone who gets sucked into these kinds of relationships is afraid of commitment or whatever is popular these days. Maybe, maybe not. Run and then pick through your psychological baggage after the fact.

I'm here if you need to talk! It will NOT be easy but just like an abused woman who wants to put off leaving to 'gather herself' and resources and whatnot, and everyone on the outside is screaming "GET OUT NOW! what's wrong with you???" she really just needs to act in her own time. I just hope it doesn't take you 5 years to get out like it did me.

omega

By the way this is code for "you're not the only woman I'm sleeping with, or, if you are, I have no qualms about sleeping with another woman at any time."

Yeah, I know, I didn't believe it either.