Drover

My wife was recently diagnosed as Bipolar Disorder I after a severe manic episode with major psychotic break. Our marriage has not been good for quite some time, and during all this she said some things to me that were pretty awful about what she wants/needs from me that I don't give her.

The issue I'm having is that during all this, she also thought the FBI was after her, and other assorted craziness. So now I'm trying to sort out what she really wants from what was just bipolar craziness. She actually has forgotten much of what happened during her episode and tries to cover up how much she remembers ans doesn't. When I try to talk about it, she refuses.

Any thoughts/ideas how to figure out what she really wants vs. what was manic nuttiness?

Kurosity

This can be tough to navigate. May be try listing the things she has said to you and review them and something might pop out at you. I think that even in a manic state there is still some things that are said that is true just amplified because of their disorder. So look for repeating themes in the things she says all across the board and you might strike gold. But ask too about it when she is level.
I use to get so mad at my H (Bipolar) for feeling like I had to read into everything he said because I was never sure until I had a grasp on his highs and lows. He has several a year and always in the same months occasionally he will have a rapid episode here and there and now I just know when it is and is not his disorder affecting him. It helps that he is on mood stabilizers to keep things level more often.
I feel for you and your wife because it is hard on everyone. I can see why she would avoid talking about her episodes. I once read a letter from a Bipolar man who said it hurt to see him self doing things that he did not want to do. Like being trapped and unable to stop things from happening while strapped to the surgeon's table. You can see, hear, and feel everything but can do nothing to stop it.

lotsoflove

I feel like you will only be able to figure out what she really wants after she settles into a treatment and therapy program, since she has just been recently diagnosed. I would tread lightly here. I am sure she is ashamed and feeling a bit helpless, like her brain has betrayed her. Let her know you want her to feel better/happy and that you hope after some progress you guys can address some of the issues that have been brought up.

that_girl

Why didn't you disclose this info in your last post about being assertive and then being put down for it?

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Drover

Because I was intentionally looking for advice isolated from this fact.

Drover

Another problem we're facing is that she's in denial about the illness. She has agreed to stay on her meds "for now" but she completely denies there's anything wrong with her. This started as soon as she became stable. Prior to that she was accepting of the diagnosis and was telling me about her guilt over things she did, etc. Now she's in complete denial. I'm really just playing a game for time, hoping we can all convince her she needs the treatment before she goes off of it again.

Uptown

Drover, some of the dysfunctional behaviors you describe -- verbal abuse, blame-shifting, and irrational anger -- may be due to an issue more serious than bipolar-I. A recent study of nearly 35,000 American adults (pub. 2008) found that half of the bipolar-I sufferers also suffer from full-blown BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). This implies there is a 50% chance your W also suffers from BPD. See Table 2 at Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Borderline Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions. One possibility, as Halien suggests in your "Pants" thread, is that you are trying to control the wrong things. Perhaps you are. Another possibility -- indeed, a 50% probability if those study results are correct -- is that your W has strong BPD traits in addition to bipolar.

BPDers have such a weak, unstable self image that they yearn to live with a person having a strong personality. They need that person to stabilize and ground them, giving them a sense of direction. This is why BPDers typically hate to be alone. As soon as they find a strong person like that, they are in heaven for 3 to 6 months, believing they have found the perfect soul mate. Yet, as soon as their infatuation evaporates, they become resentful, feeling like the mate is trying to control them.

Hence, when a woman has a weak sense of who she is, she will desperately crave to be around a strong man but, after several months, she will feel like she is losing her own identity in his strong personality. She thus will complain about "being controlled."

My exW was that way. If I bought her a present, she resented the fact that I picked it out. If I asked her ahead of time what sort of gift she would like me to buy, she felt that I was the one deciding when it could be bought. And, if we agreed on her having her own separate budget for such frills, she felt that I somehow had been the one to dictate the budget. As I learned, the result is a lose-lose situation because a BPDer will be unhappy if you do not help to ground and center her, and she will be equally unhappy if you do.If she has strong BPD traits, this behavior is typical. BPDers (i.e., those with strong traits) lack the ability to control their emotions and therefore often experience intense feelings. Over the years, they become so used to this that they get bored easily when the intensity is missing. They therefore generally have little interest in finding solutions. Instead, they usually only want to create drama.

Another reason for the drama is to push the spouse away when they are feeling suffocated and controlled by the intimacy. This is why they tend to create fights -- over absolutely nothing -- immediately following a great weekend or intimate evening spent together.Drover, I suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. Certainly, I don't know whether your W has most BPD traits at a strong level. Moreover, only a professional can diagnose BPD. I nonetheless believe you can spot the red flags if you take time to read about them. There is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse and temper tantrums.

An easy place to start is my description of such traits in Maybe's thread at My list of hell!. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Drover.

*needaunderstand*

look durning my episodes, i remember every thing that i say. i regret much of what i say but i remember. some things i say, i say them to hurt the person im mad at. not because it s true. but because im are mad.

CallaLily

Doesn't sound like bipolar to me. Although she could have that along with another mental illness, believe it or not people can have more than one. I would get a second opinion.

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thunderstruck

It doesn't work that way, at least it didn't with my depressed/anxious W. I went on a mission to grow my sack back a few years ago. My W appreciates most of the benefits of being with the "new" confident/strong me, but it also sends her into a tailspin from time to time. In your case, mix in BP, and you are rocking the foundation under your wife's feet.

You'll have to choose your path. For me, I refused to return to walking on eggshells to soothe my wife. It will likely cause my marriage to end sooner, but I've accepted that.

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Drover

This is one of the differences between BP I and BP II. BP I has more severe manic episodes that often have psychosis, paranoia, etc that accompany them. She's a pretty classic case actually, and she received identical diagnoses at two hospitals.

Drover

I'm aware the two things aren't separable in practice. I was trying to get information that way so the focus of the thread would NOT be on one thing versus the other.

Almostrecovered

actually no, this does happen in the extreme manic states where the thoughts race so much that the person exhibits schizophrenic symptoms. It isn't common but it isn't extremely rare or unheard of

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CallaLily

Is she on meds? And Yes I'm sure there is a difference between BP I and BP II. But like I said, sometimes there are other mental disorders that go along with the one.

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trey69

Are you in therapy? If not, might be a good idea for you to seek some counseling for yourself. If you are living with someone with a mental illness you need some help as well. You might want to seek out a counselor who specializes in mental illness, so they can help guide you and give you some suggestions of things to do or try when she has a episode.

As far as trying to figure out what she really wants vs. whats manic nuttiness, thats probably something you will beat your head against the wall over. No one will probably know that for sure.

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"When people are truly sick and tired of being sick and tired, that's when they will make a change."