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Physical & Mental Health Issues Marriage and relationships are difficult by themselves, but coping with physical or mental health problems can make things even more difficult.

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Old 06-28-2012, 01:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bipolar wife's tantrums and blame taking a toll

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...and she usually coupled that with wild sex and food to get my attention and plead her case(and she was great in bed and great in the kitchen).
Well you definitely have a leg up on me there...no pun intended.

I'm the cook in my family and the sex has never really been that good (IMHO). I mean, perhaps if the sex was great, I could find it a little easier to deal with all the other BS in the relationship. Take away the physical attraction, there is nothing to look forward to.
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bipolar wife's tantrums and blame taking a toll

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Well you definitely have a leg up on me there...no pun intended.

I'm the cook in my family and the sex has never really been that good (IMHO). I mean, perhaps if the sex was great, I could find it a little easier to deal with all the other BS in the relationship. Take away the physical attraction, there is nothing to look forward to.
Let's just say that she was quite the wild freak, and I guess to compensate for all the drama and bullsh*t she puts people through felt she had to be all that. But I can honestly say that was some of the wildest and kinkiest sex that I have ever had - bar none, but it would've taken a lot more for me to stay especially after she began to physically strike me the last 3 or 4 months we were together.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:52 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bipolar wife's tantrums and blame taking a toll

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Let's just say that she was quite the wild freak, and I guess to compensate for all the drama and bullsh*t she puts people through felt she had to be all that. But I can honestly say that was some of the wildest and kinkiest sex that I have ever had - bar none, but it would've taken a lot more for me to stay especially after she began to physically strike me the last 3 or 4 months we were together.
My stbxw would only give me the kinky and wild sex she 'claimed' she liked when she wanted something or was trying to get on my good side. It was always great and rewarding.

She'd bull the etch-a-sketch routine on me as soon as she got what she wanted. My attraction to her was still there and given the chance now, I'm sure I couldn't hold myself back from physical contact with her, but once she got what she wanted, it was back to missionary for 5 minutes of blah sex.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:01 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bipolar wife's tantrums and blame taking a toll

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My stbxw would only give me the kinky and wild sex she 'claimed' she liked when she wanted something or was trying to get on my good side. It was always great and rewarding.

She'd bull the etch-a-sketch routine on me as soon as she got what she wanted. My attraction to her was still there and given the chance now, I'm sure I couldn't hold myself back from physical contact with her, but once she got what she wanted, it was back to missionary for 5 minutes of blah sex.
My ex was on a few meds for her disorder and I guess fortuneatly for me one of the side effects of those meds was an increased sex drive, and so she was horny and ready to go A LOT and it even got to a point where we were doing it soooo much - that I didn't want anymore for awhile. There were times that she was so good and so creative in the bedroom it had me wondering "hmmmm".
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:19 AM   #20 (permalink)
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As someone who has battled lifelong severe manic depression I can attest that it's not fun, it's not charming or sexy and even in the throes of the most manic of manias sometimes killing yourself sounds like a pretty good plan. And on the good days you feel halfway normal but hopefully nothing at all, not good or bad. And in a depression you're so zonked out you can't get off the floor to shamble into the kitchen for a sharp enough knife to cut yourself. Or maybe you do and you get distracted and you wander outside half naked waving a knife around until the cops show up.

In the past I have assaulted people I knew and didn't know. I have done horrible things I don't remember. I've been arrested locked away committed, beat up, molested, shocked, drugged, tied down, robbed, raped and left on the sidewalk for dead.

It's a sickness, like diabetes or arthritis. It never goes away it's only manageable or treatable and can't be cured. It's not your fault and there's little if anything you can do for a sufferer other than get them the medical help they need.

Manic depressives massively self medicate. We all do if given the chance. Alcohol, drugs of any kind, all at the same time, chain smoking, anonymous frequent sex with anyone of either gender, spend money we don't have and steal it when we need some. We lie a lot to get what we want when we want it. We think we're wonderful when we're up and can't understand why drunk driving a stolen car with some hookers in the back seat is wrong. We are bottomless holes of need that can't ever be filled up with whatever we're chucking into the hole right now. It's never enough. No one can love us enough or punish us enough either. The only thing greater than our self love is our self loathing. We can be charming monsters and not know it.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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As someone who has battled lifelong severe manic depression I can attest that it's not fun, it's not charming or sexy and even in the throes of the most manic of manias sometimes killing yourself sounds like a pretty good plan. And on the good days you feel halfway normal but hopefully nothing at all, not good or bad. And in a depression you're so zonked out you can't get off the floor to shamble into the kitchen for a sharp enough knife to cut yourself. Or maybe you do and you get distracted and you wander outside half naked waving a knife around until the cops show up.

In the past I have assaulted people I knew and didn't know. I have done horrible things I don't remember. I've been arrested locked away committed, beat up, molested, shocked, drugged, tied down, robbed, raped and left on the sidewalk for dead.

It's a sickness, like diabetes or arthritis. It never goes away it's only manageable or treatable and can't be cured. It's not your fault and there's little if anything you can do for a sufferer other than get them the medical help they need.

Manic depressives massively self medicate. We all do if given the chance. Alcohol, drugs of any kind, all at the same time, chain smoking, anonymous frequent sex with anyone of either gender, spend money we don't have and steal it when we need some. We lie a lot to get what we want when we want it. We think we're wonderful when we're up and can't understand why drunk driving a stolen car with some hookers in the back seat is wrong. We are bottomless holes of need that can't ever be filled up with whatever we're chucking into the hole right now. It's never enough. No one can love us enough or punish us enough either. The only thing greater than our self love is our self loathing. We can be charming monsters and not know it.
I highlighted the part that was the deciding factor for me in leaving my ex totally for good, because after she began striking me hard on a few occasions that is when I decided it was time to...............GO! And she was 5'10 and 160 lbs so she could pack quite a wallop but I have never laid my hands on any woman - and still haven't, so the only choice I had was to get far away from her and that situation I found myself in. She did attempt to stalk me - follow me - and beg me to come back or she'd kill herself, but thankfully I held my ground and threatened her with a restraining order until she stopped and she never did kill herself and is now married AGAIN for the 4th time!
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bipolar wife's tantrums and blame taking a toll

I am a bipolar wife and is under treatment. If she isn't already, she needs to get treatment and get stabilized. Once she is stabilized, she needs to stay on her meds. no matter if she thinks she needs them or not. I don't throw tantrums or get violent. My last nervous breakdown was almost a decade ago. I wasn't getting proper treatment at the time and on the wrong medication. I had, also gone through a very difficult period in my that included divorce and raising a special needs child. I got the proper help and meds. and eventually stabilized. My you're wife get help from a good mental health professional. She will get a lot better when that happens.
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Old 06-30-2012, 03:03 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Bipolar wife's tantrums and blame taking a toll
Lick, most behaviors you describe -- e.g., the blame-shifting, always being "The Victim," verbal and physical abuse, temper tantrums, sense of entitlement, and strong need for frequent validation -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) -- not bipolar disorder.

I therefore agree with Conrad (5/30 post) that you seem to be describing traits of a PD. Indeed, except for "bipolar" appearing in the title of your last thread, I've never seen you mention the term in any of your posts. I caution that having strong traits of a PD does not imply a person has the full-blown disorder. Only a professional can make that determination. It nonetheless is not difficult to spot the red flags, i.e., the strong traits if they are present.

I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found many clear differences between the two disorders.

One difference is that the mood swings are on two separate spectra having very different polar extremes. Whereas a bipolar sufferer swings between mania and depression, a BPDer flips back and forth between loving you and hating you. Significantly, you speak a lot about her harsh criticisms and temper tantrums against you but you mention nothing about mania.

A second difference is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. The latter therefore seems consistent with your description of numerous temper tantrums. (Although hyper rapid cycling can occur in some bipolar sufferers, it is very rare.)

A third difference is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours). Again, these short-duration rages seem consistent with with the tantrums you describe.

A fourth difference is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action. Significantly, the behavior you describe is consistent with these event-triggered outbursts.

A fifth difference is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry. Indeed, bipolar sufferers typically have good childhoods because the mood swings usually do not start occurring until the late teens. In contrast, 70% of BPDers report that they were abused or abandoned in childhood. And the type of abuse most strongly associated with BPD is childhood sexual abuse, which your W experienced.

A sixth difference is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. This seems consistent with your description of very hateful, spiteful behavior in which she is throwing things, scratching you, and physically hitting you.

A seventh difference is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to say or do some minor thing to TRIGGER a sudden release of the anger that is already there -- which seems consistent with your description.

An eight difference is that a bipolar sufferer typically is capable of tolerating intimacy when he is not experiencing strong mania or depression. In contrast, BPDers have such a weak and unstable self image that (except for the brief infatuation period) they cannot tolerate intimacy for long before feeling engulfed and suffocated by your personality.

BPDers therefore will create arguments over nothing as a way to push you away and give them breathing room. Hence, it is not surprising that they tend to create the very worst arguments immediately following the very best of times, i.e., right after an intimate evening or a great weekend spent together.

Finally, a ninth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if he or she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves.

Lick, if you would like to read more about BPD traits, I suggest you take a look at my posts in Maybe's thread at My list of hell!. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Keep in mind that your W could have both disorders. A recent study (pub. 2008) found that about half of the people suffering from bipolar-I disorder also suffer from full blown BPD. Take care, Lick.

Last edited by Uptown; 06-30-2012 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bipolar wife's tantrums and blame taking a toll

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Lick, most behaviors you describe -- e.g., the blame-shifting, always being "The Victim," verbal and physical abuse, temper tantrums, sense of entitlement, and strong need for frequent validation -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) -- not bipolar disorder.....
Uptown, THANK YOU! You may be on to something there. I never mentioned some of these things you referenced because I was locked in on what appeared to be symptoms of bi-polar disease or severe cases of depression.

Either way, I am very curious to learn more about BPD. Your detailed descriptions are VERY HELPFUL and VERY ACCURATE. Thank you!
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Lick, I'm glad to hear you found the BPD information helpful.
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I am very curious to learn more about BPD.!
Lick, as an initial matter, if you suspect your W has strong BPD traits, I strongly recommend that you NOT tell her. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her. If she is unwilling to seek therapy, it does no good to insist that she go. Unless a BPDer really wants therapy, she likely would only play mind games with the therapist and waste your money.

Second, if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get Stop Walking on Eggshells, the best-selling BPD book targeted to spouses like you. Or, if you are decided to get a divorce instead, get Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist. Both books are written by the same author, Randi Kreger.

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The two boards that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Leaving" board and "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD" board.

Fourth, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is Article 9 at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

Fifth, I again suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with -- and how likely it is your wife may pass it on to your two children if she actually does have strong BPD traits. As I've explained in many other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder.

Finally, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your experiences here at TAM, you likely are helping numerous people. The hit count for this thread, for example, is already close to 600.

Last edited by Uptown; 07-03-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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